Rob Stevens Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Old technology gets a pretty rough ride when it comes to its percieved ability to show a rider a good time. Reading some posts, you might get the impression that, unless you're on the newest equipment, you are doing yourself a disservice. That said, every board out there has a turn it likes to do. If that is the kind of turn you like to do, then you're in business. The link below removes one seemingly critical element of technology, yet still leaves performance intact. No bindings? No problem. You can get good on ANYTHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I agree completely! Now somebody buy my Madd 180! :D You know what this video makes me think... is that an old idea I and surely several other people have had might work... magnetic bindings. The retention would be somewhere between a regular binding and the NoBoard. You could retro-fit existing boots with a strap-on or bolt-on magnet, and the board with a metal plate screwed to the inserts. Hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 ... magnetic bindings. The retention would be somewhere between a regular binding and the NoBoard. You could retro-fit existing boots with a strap-on or bolt-on magnet, and the board with a metal plate screwed to the inserts. Hmm... As a bonus, if you put the magnets on the board you don't need a roof rack for your car. <Ka-chunk> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 As a bonus, if you put the magnets on the board you don't need a roof rack for your car. <KA-CHUNK> I lolled @ dis. Snowboarding is not about "keepin up with the jonses". Enjoy what you have and if it ain't broke, don't replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboatrailer Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 not every one has a grand to thow down on a board.Hell I gotta pay for my pass.I will ride my less than cutting tech board cuz I like to ride .I'm saving money for a metal Prior .Till then I ride what have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboatrailer Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 How many days ya ride 100+days? Then just be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kex Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I agree completely! Now somebody buy my Madd 180! :DYou know what this video makes me think... is that an old idea I and surely several other people have had might work... magnetic bindings. The retention would be somewhere between a regular binding and the NoBoard. You could retro-fit existing boots with a strap-on or bolt-on magnet, and the board with a metal plate screwed to the inserts. Hmm... not a terrible idea, but a few things to overcome: first, magnets slide fairly easily as im sure you know, so you would need some sort of boot shaped rim around the magnet on the board to hold your foot in place, or something equivalent. second, if the magnet hold is strong enough to be functional, how do you get your foot off? unless we are talking some sort of electromagnet. lastly, in sure it would come off in a nasty crash, so it would need some sort of runaway prevention. a leash would work, but a large bladed weight flying through the air while tethered to me doesnt sound fun imo. the other option is to go the way of the ski and put on retractable brakes. seems like a lot of trouble to put brakes and boot rim things on your board, magnets on your board and feet, for something that does the same job as regular bindings. oh, one last problem: steel floors/staircases + magnetic boots = funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpletiesto Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 here we go again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Old technology gets a pretty rough ride when it comes to its percieved ability to show a rider a good time.Reading some posts, you might get the impression that, unless you're on the newest equipment, you are doing yourself a disservice. That said, every board out there has a turn it likes to do. If that is the kind of turn you like to do, then you're in business. The link below removes one seemingly critical element of technology, yet still leaves performance intact. No bindings? No problem. You can get good on ANYTHING. Yea I am not getting sucked into this misleading statement. Rob, I read in another post, the poll I think it was and you said... "For me, 89 to about 97 when I gave it up to go back, full-time, to soft boots. Been waffling about buying a new setup for some time, but this is the year." So what is your true point of referance???? Every year they guy who starts the "old gear still rips" thread seems to have no experance on new gear so how is it a true educated statement, versis propaganda???? I been riding hard boots and the boards that go with 5 days a week minamum for well, freaking ever.... soft boots on the weekend with the misses and on pow days! Wonder why so many board builders have gone to the new shapes if they arn't better??? Even the no fish has rocker now...... __________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I agree completely! Now somebody buy my Madd 180! :DYou know what this video makes me think... is that an old idea I and surely several other people have had might work... magnetic bindings. The retention would be somewhere between a regular binding and the NoBoard. You could retro-fit existing boots with a strap-on or bolt-on magnet, and the board with a metal plate screwed to the inserts. Hmm... Been pitchen electro magnets for ever! I think the binding should just be "part of the board" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Wonder why so many board builders have gone to the new shapes if they arn't better??? :) I think it's industry trend, no more than that. yes - it's definitely BETTER for those who decidedly following trends. but it's definitely WORSE for some other respectful snowboarders out there. it's personal matter, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm a fan of the new stuff, but I think to say that someone NEEDS the latest and greatest to have fun or even to have a valid opinion is not healthy. I'd rather see someone pick up a $100 eBay board and start riding than waiting 2+ years to be able to afford a custom board. My cheap boards did me very well for the first 6 years of alpine, now I've put aside enough money for a nice metal board. I'm glad I made the jump to alpine earlier instead of waiting to spend the big bucks on a nicer board. In car racing terms: Sure, we'd all love to race a Formula 1 car. But you're much better off racing whatever you can afford early on than waiting until you can afford that F1 car. Most people would never race if they were told to wait until they could get the F1 car! We're at risk of discouraging beginners from even trying unless they get a Kessler. That seems crazy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 In car racing terms: Sure, we'd all love to race a Formula 1 car. But you're much better off racing whatever you can afford early on than waiting until you can afford that F1 car. Most people would never race if they were told to wait until they could get the F1 car! We're at risk of discouraging beginners from even trying unless they get a Kessler. That seems crazy to me. This should drive the point home for the average North American commuter. I have many decks and most of my best days are on the older ones... Still cant beat the feel of a new deck...like a new car smell, it only lasts for the first few rides... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Every year they guy who starts the "old gear still rips" thread seems to have no experance on new gear so how is it a true educated statement, versis propaganda????I don't think that's what Rob meant to do. I don't have access to youtube at work but I'm 99% certain his link will show noboarding, as he's been plugging that for some time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I use the NoBoard footage as an example that you can have performance without high end technology. In the case of the NoBoard, we're having fun by entirely eliminating one type of technology. Expanding on that point, I could probably have a good time on an KR70 from days of old. Would I have more fun on newer gear? Likely... as long as it wasn't one of those 50 lb Kessler's my buddy Mark's (Ballard or Fawcett's) athletes run. Billy was right to bring up my 90's point of reference. I don't have a modern (hardboot) one, so my fun factor will have to be entirely based on my dated sensations. I would say that my skill sets would let me have more performance on new gear, but if you're a novice, older, used gear could get you feeling it. That said, if someone had cash to chuck around, I would suggest to them that they go the "Cafe racer" route and get the best, most modern gear for their chosen style. It probably does come down to style. The reason I don't want the Kessler is because I don't want to go the speed it would take to make one work. This is the same pussy attitude that has me on a NoBoard, making turns instead of jumping all the time. I have found something where the peak performance (turning left and right excluded)is about halfway up the scale of someone strapped to their gear. I would also like to No on a rockered Fish. If it was easier to ride, I would probably have more fun, because I could ride better and by extension, feel like a hero. Initially, the topic pointed out that of the good, older boards out there, some of them can still outperform the rider and that technology for its own sake does not necessarily increase enjoyment. The car racing analogy is solid, as I figure I would be over-matched by an '83 Audi Quattro rally car. Ken Block's Subaru WRX STi? I'd probably stall it off the line. Magnet binders? Swell. You could carry the electromagnets battery around in an Elton John autographed fanny pack. Seriously... It has merits. When I go out heli, the last thing I want to do is slow down the group, so when I NoBoard it can be tough when the pow ends and the whooped out mini-bike-track-traverse begins. I guess the question would be: How small an electro-magnet could you mount in the sole of a soft soled boot, with enough power to hold you down in intermediate riding and how heavy would it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 The car racing analogy is solid, as I figure I would be over-matched by an '83 Audi Quattro rally car. Ken Block's Subaru WRX STi? I'd probably stall it off the line.Yeah, but for those of us without the skills to handle any flavour of race car, a new M3 with all the electronic idjit-proofing would probably get us from A to B the fastest. I think analogies only go so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'd like to see the electronic idjit-proofing the snowboard manufacturers would use... -Traction control? Edges that tune or detune themselves while riding. Anyone else got one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 a 12 second quarter mile is still a 12 second quarter mile. Ford, or Fiat, or Ferrari. A 1978 versus a 1994 and a 2009 whatever, and they still end up at the finish line in 12.000 seconds really doesn't matter now does it as long as the drivers get out and have a smile on their faces. Its all about personal choice and style and what they like. One persons' garbage is anothers gold. Techchnology is supposed to make things simpler.... Snowboards and cars... quite the opposite atleast from a mechanics perspective LOL. I have both state of the art new gear, and also old tried and true gear. Know what? It doesnt matter as long as we have fun on it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjvircks Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Don't need electromagnets to "turn off" the magnetic force. Ask any machinist who has a magnetic base for his dial indicator. A simple turn of the knob separates the internal permanent magnet from the iron frame/base. Viola... the clamping force disapears and you can lift the base off the machine. Check out McMaster-Carr or any other supplier to machinists and inspectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big canuck Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Great footage in there Rob. I miss Fortress. Was that taken last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 a 12 second quarter mile is still a 12 second quarter mile.Ford, or Fiat, or Ferrari. A 1978 versus a 1994 and a 2009 whatever, and they still end up at the finish line in 12.000 seconds really doesn't matter now does it as long as the drivers get out and have a smile on their faces. Its all about personal choice and style and what they like. One persons' garbage is anothers gold. Techchnology is supposed to make things simpler.... Snowboards and cars... I have both state of the art new gear, and also old tried and true gear. Know what? It doesnt matter as long as we have fun on it :) yes, if you don't want to turn, be able to stop as fast, don't care about reliability, safety and don't care about fuel economy there is not much difference between anything with a engine and tires. I have old ford aspire that I rip on dirt roads and I love it but I don't go to http://www.worldracingforum.com/rally-racing/ and say aww it doesn't matter what you run my aspire pushing 56 horse is as fun as your STI and that's all that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 See you on the snow this year, for sure. I guess I gave people the wrong idea with this thread. Last time I called it "Carving Without Bindings" but I took it off as the video link was a backdoor to my Facebook account. For those of you with one of those, an open Facebook homepage is an irresistable invitation to a **** disturbance of some kind. The only thing I know, which has nothing to do with how old alpine boards stack up against new ones (which I'm sure they don't), is my personal experience in powder, strapped in and not. Under the right conditions, there is no difference. As an expert rider, you do things with steering that "predict" the movement of the board. You know where it's going and are there before it is, even if only slightly. It is in turns like these that bindings are unnecessary. If you don't need to forcefully pull the board around, but rather inherently know the arc it will take, you're there every time. Bindings are primarily used as a mechanism to lever against your base of support. If the base of support is strictly the edge of the board, it will want to sit flat. Only bindings keep it from doing this. If the entire base, from edge to edge, is supported by the snow, this force dissappears. Later, binders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 :) I think it's industry trend, no more than that. yes - it's definitely BETTER for those who decidedly following trends. but it's definitely WORSE for some other respectful snowboarders out there. it's personal matter, I think. Disagree 100%. It's not a trend, the new shapes work better. That is a verifiable fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 not a terrible idea, but a few things to overcome: first, magnets slide fairly easily as im sure you know, so you would need some sort of boot shaped rim around the magnet on the board to hold your foot in place, or something equivalent. second, if the magnet hold is strong enough to be functional, how do you get your foot off? unless we are talking some sort of electromagnet. lastly, in sure it would come off in a nasty crash, so it would need some sort of runaway prevention. a leash would work, but a large bladed weight flying through the air while tethered to me doesnt sound fun imo. the other option is to go the way of the ski and put on retractable brakes.seems like a lot of trouble to put brakes and boot rim things on your board, magnets on your board and feet, for something that does the same job as regular bindings. oh, one last problem: steel floors/staircases + magnetic boots = funny No, my point is that magnets could be used to enhance the Noboard type interface, not replace conventional strap bindings. The steel floors and stairs issue would be funny, ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraph Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 I'd like to see the electronic idjit-proofing the snowboard manufacturers would use...-Traction control? Edges that tune or detune themselves while riding. Anyone else got one? Heated bases? When I was speedskating some of the guys were toying with the idea of putting a heating element on the blade to make it warm enough to melt the ice touching the blade and create a thin layer of water between the blade and the ice, which theoretically show reduce friction and increase edge hold making the skater faster. It's also against the rules but in the interests of research we were curious as to how much of a performance change it would have...So would that work for snowboarding too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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