carvedog Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Sooo now that the season is winding down. A few thoughts. I started the season the season this year with new pants for the first time in years. They are made of awesome waterproof material and I liked them a lot. Bergens for those who might be curious. Nearly $300 or so. I taught about 20 days ( not so much carving lay out) and got to freeride about the same or a little more. With precious few powder days most of those were hard and fast carving. The result is that my left hip and right knee are already pretty frayed from those days. Also as much as I like the material and its waterproofness, it is very thin. So I have been kicking the idea around of a carving specific pant, with some extra material in those asymetric areas. I do a bit of sewing and have some heavy duty machines to do this type of stuff. If I figure out the best design for me it might work for my brothers and sisters of the carve. Is this a good idea to try to bring to market? I know that there aren't but a few hundred of us really doing this who could benefit - maybe more if you add Europe. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frunobulax Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 We're currently doing some research in this area. I'm quite optimistic about a material called superfabric, which is made in the US (www.superfabric.com). Haven't tried it on snow yet, but there will be two prototypes for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 from Tex reinforced hips, built in suspenders, internal intec handle extension. from rideguy Reinforced knees as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Sorry for the dual threads. Now condensed to one. My browser went wonky and I checked the main page but it wasn't there and then after I finished it was. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I want a pant I can climb in (backcountry), crampon patches that wrap around the front of the cuff so when on the lift the board doesn't slice the pants cuff. Gotta have suspenders, full length side zippers, and one pocket, wallet sized. No floppy sized pants, need to be able to put on a alpine climbing harness. And indestructable and light, too. Might be that you just need to put crampon patch material on the spots that drag the snow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I think it would be great if you came up with some sort of pants that would hold up under the extreme conditions while carving. I have written about this many times and have yet to find a pair of quality pants that will hold up for more than two seasons ( 30 - 40 days per season). Good luck fella's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEC Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I have a great pair of Patagucci's that have lasted me now 3 seasons of 70+ days of riding and teaching on the Ice Coast. They still aren't showing wear anywhere except very slightly on the knees. I bought them from a crunchy tele guy at a free heel shop. He says he can get 6 or 7 seasons out of the same pant before he has to send them to his friend to have Kevlar fabric reinforcements sewn on. I have been out on the hill with this guy a lot, and his knees literally touch the snow on every single turn. Anyway, Kevlar fabric seems to be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I want a pant I can climb in (backcountry), crampon patches that wrap around the front of the cuff so when on the lift the board doesn't slice the pants cuff. Gotta have suspenders, full length side zippers, and one pocket, wallet sized. No floppy sized pants, need to be able to put on a alpine climbing harness. And indestructable and light, too. Might be that you just need to put crampon patch material on the spots that drag the snow... +1 Full zips and full cuff/knee protection would add telewhackers to the market. Padding in the knees would be nice for tele and boarders parking on slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEC Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 +1 Full zips and full cuff/knee protection would add telewhackers to the market. Padding in the knees would be nice for tele and boarders parking on slope. The Patagonia pants that I have include all of the above, except for padding in the knees. I use my knees a lot when teaching, so I just wear knee pads under them. They are made of heavy duty Gortex, and they have full length zippers, so you can put them on without removing your boots and crampons. They have crampon protection around the cuffs, reinforcement on the knees, suspenders, they aren't baggy, etc. They come in men's and women's, and yes, they're expensive. Retail was something like $320. I got them for $180 on an end of season deal. The model is called the "Primo." You may want to look for them now on and end of season deal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I have also set of Bonfires, bougth 2000 and still going strong. Spend like 4+ jackets, 10+ pair of gloves on same time. Roughly 60+ days per season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak_rider Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 my fiance has a pair of old burton pants from 98 that seem to fit the bill. full side zips, relatively snug feel, i think they were made just before the ganster movement, built-in knee pads and i don't know what the fabric is-the tag is too faded- but they feel like the fabric used to reinforce the inner cuffs on ski pants, so pretty heavy duty. these pants are 11 years old and have no signs of holes or anything. these were the pants he bought when he first learned to ride, so lots of falling and then dragging on VT ice. the only thing i don't like about them is that they are insulated. i prefer the versatility of layering. i would only add a little more fleece in the butt area, for cold chair lifts. maybe these pants can be used as a model for a newer pair. i would pay a lot of money for a pair of pants that don't fall apart halfway through the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I like ass padding. I do not like wearing a prosthetic ass. It would be really cool if somebody would make some pants with ass/hip padding built in. It helps when I bite it, and I also like it on the lift and when i'm sitting around on the snow. I'm not a big fan of zippered pants but I know lots of people like them. I think bright colours are a good idea for carving pants - for uphill visibility. +1 to the internal intec cable routing thing, so that I don't have to bend over to step out. Another thing I would like: a pocket on the INSIDE of my thigh or calf for storing a small camera: so that when I inevitably eat turd, it does not smack against the snow surface and remains cushioned safely between my legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Patagucci Primo pants kick ass. Lots of patrollers I know wear them, every day all season - climbing over rocks to throw bombs, etc. Original poster - Just ask Jack, asyms went out long ago. If you're going to make pants, remember us goofy riders and make them symmetrical. Removeable pads in the knees and maybe in the butt would be nice. Full side zips are critical to me. A couple of pockets is important. Gore-tex is critical. Scuff guards for days I ski are important. Either no insulation, or a mesh liner at most. I'll layer if its cold. Make them for normal sized people, not NBA players. I have a 34 inch waist and 30 inch inseam (Levi sizing). When I put on my padded shorts, u-trau and long johns, I'm probably closer to 35 inches. But my legs don't get any longer. We wear tall boots, there's really no need for excess length in the legs. I find with Arcter'yx pants I need to buy the S length, which is hard to find. And include some sort of sleeve and hole mechanism so I can run my remote step-in release cable up and out by my hip. I'm sure you can search and find this. A few of us are too lazy to bend down, plus don't like having the release handle have to stick out of our pant cuffs. So we take advantage of the fact that Intec (and FinTec) handles accept fastex clips, and run a length of webbing up the inside of our pants and out through a small reinforced hole near the hip, to some sort of pull-tab (I use small fake figure-8 bottle opener tools from REI). I've had a cobbler reinforce the holes with leather so they don't rip. Its awesome to be able to ride right into the lift line and release bindings without even bending down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyTKDsquirrel Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 +2 on the Bonfires. I got mine at the beginning of this season and they still look new. Granted I'm not good enough to fully lay out some carves yet, but I have taken a lot of falls/slide outs on the rough morning ice. For being so thin, they are suprisingly VERY warm and comfy. I've never worn anything under them except some UnderArmor wannabe thermals. I'm going to look for another pair this year as a spare ETA: They only set me back about $125 (I got them on special) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Original poster - Just ask Jack, asyms went out long ago. If you're going to make pants, remember us goofy riders and make them symmetrical. Although I am regular I wouldn't forget about the goofys out there. The idea would be to make the same pant but have an asym wear patch for front hip and back leg knee. Good ideas everyone. Ideally you would be able to order light pads hip and butt or heavier pads. If I have even a light pad there I would want it sewn in as one older pair I had was removable but the pads after a short period of time were all wadded up and dysfunctional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan Guy Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Thanks for not forgetting about us goofy riders! I own some whitewater kayak sprayskirts that use a kevalr fabric to protect the neoprene edge. That stuff is bomber. Very abrasion resistant. Might be awesome on some pants. I have some Burton AK pants and they are too baggy and too thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 It might be interesting to check in with Lesley at Aegix Gear and see if by chance she'd be interested in taking on this project. They make pretty cool, bomber (no pun or confusing company reference intended) gear. It has lots of pads/protection and is supposedly pretty nice. You can tell her Sinecure sent you - she knows me from another forum. They took this year off from production, I think. They were having some problems with sourcing work, but should be back in full force next season as far as I know. Be sure to stick to your guns re: full zips. Most pants these days don't have them. http://www.aegixgear.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 If i see full side zip's on pants, i skip them. Dont want to spend money to them and have no use for them and they are just one more easily breakable part. No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 It's all about how you use your pants and what your style is. Those FB guys darg their hips, knees/shins, underarms, hands through the snow with almost every turn. So then the pants should have other characteristics if you don't do this. So Frunobulax is searching for a material that can last with the first mentioned style. I know and have seen that they are using motoringspecific pants and jackets now and they are lasting but show some wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hans, i was refering to full length zip's in pants. Not to material of pants :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hans, i was refering to full length zip's in pants. Not to material of pants :) Hi Pokkis was not replying to you ;) but in general. The FBguys are looking into pants and jackets that can withold the wear of dragging their arms and legs through the snow. If you don't do this your pants and jackets can last very long. And I think there aren't any jackets or pants anymore that are complete rubbish. But for this specific ridingstyle you need other materials. For instance I had a Dainese pants and after three days the fabric at my hip was totally worn away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I'm unfortunately dragging myself quite a a lot on snow and that is why i loose jackets and gloves, but my Bonfire pants hold still after many years. Damn i should have bought another pair just for spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frunobulax Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I don't think there's any gear on the market right now that would really withstand the wear and tear long enough. So we're experimenting with new fabrics. Kevlar keprotec was disappointing, maybe because of high friction with the snow. But maybe we will have results by the middle of next season. I'm pretty confident that this superfabric stuff will work out fine. The goal is either to develop complete carving gear, or to find out if and how everyone can have his gear equipped with the wear-resistant fabric. More to come next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I don't think there's any gear on the market right now that would really withstand the wear and tear long enough. So we're experimenting with new fabrics. Kevlar keprotec was disappointing, maybe because of high friction with the snow. But maybe we will have results by the middle of next season. I'm pretty confident that this superfabric stuff will work out fine. The goal is either to develop complete carving gear, or to find out if and how everyone can have his gear equipped with the wear-resistant fabric. More to come next year. what is a frunobulax? I searched but found vague references zappa and monsters. do you do clothes or snowboards or?? you said we. Club? Wife? Are you going to take all the ideas from my thread and zeke me on going to market? Inquiring minds want to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frunobulax Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 frunobulax: good research. A "very large poodle dog", walking through Frank Zappa's song about bad monster movies, "Cheepnis". Bullets can't stop it. Rockets can't stop it. We may have to use NUCLEAR FORCE! I do: snowboarding. drinking. developing strange plans. we: me and a couple of friends from the Frozen Backside. No stealing intended. Willling to share the results and everything else with everybody who wants to solve the problem, e.g. you. Any help appreciated. Frank Zappa: best musician in history. Inquiring minds satisfied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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