Madd update

[moxie]

Like many other people here, I was curious about the Madd production status. The following is an email I received today about production.

Chris,

The boards will be in the states by the end of Sept. We are working on a letter now with details regarding grind and tune options and shipping info. Stay tuned....

Cheri

[lonerider]

Originally posted by moxie

Like many other people here, I was curious about the Madd production status. The following is an email I received today about production.

Chris,

The boards will be in the states by the end of Sept. We are working on a letter now with details regarding grind and tune options and shipping info. Stay tuned....

Cheri

Well that seems like a decent reply... I'm totally willing to forgive them for pushing back the delivery time four times from mid-summer to late-August to mid September, to late September. And for redefining the terms of "regular newsletter" and "will get back to you in a few days."

For now, I'm just waiting for my board to come.

[nils]

As someone that also subcontracts the making of the boards, I can say that it is VERY hard to schedule and plan the exact delivery dates for boards that have precise specs: you know what u want at the end but basically that is all.

There are so many ways to make a snowboards, and all the steps have differences in each factory.. for example a change in the resin or cooking temperature implies different flex pattern and board lifespan for example...Then the molds, the fiberglass etc everytime you change a data because of the factory: u need to retest protos, remeasure the specs etc... Its a very long process! There is also problems that can occur in the making, schedules that has the factory with its own production that usually gets priority treatment, etc etc....

Last year for example we had an issue at the factory with bad mold temperature combined with demold agent that was making the topsheet come appart... Took the factory 3 weeks to solve, and costed us 25 rejected boards!! And the factory was only 2 hours drive: I can imagine the nightmare if it was an ocean appart!

I haven't ordered a Madd ( would love to try one ) but all I can say to the impatient clients you are is be patient ! Its already a miracle that someones makes the board again( and at the price you have it ;) !

its worth a few more weeks wait no?

N.

[lonerider]

It's more the wall of silence that Madd gives us about anyway that's the issue, Nils... would you promise several people to send them continual updates on the progress of the board manufacturing and then proceed to never tell them anything about the process? Even ignoring their emails, or replying to their emails and saying all will be told "in a few days" and then just leave them hanging for weeks and/or months?

Nils, you misunderstand the issue... just like John and Shred... the problem is not petty little details like the topsheet graphic or the continually delivery date delays... but the complete lack of professionalism in the way that Madd handles these issues. When they are delays... and a customer ask you about it... you apologize and perhaps even explain why there is a delay (just like you did), you don't blatantly ignore their emails. And yet that is what Madd as a company does on regular basis... ignore customer queries. No one can excuse that type of behavior, and I don't see why all of you keep trying to...

[nils]

okok :)

I get your point! Strange from them cos writing a few emails is quite fast and would have prevent all these posts :)

Please post pics of the madds when u get them!

N.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by nils

okok :)

I get your point! Strange from them cos writing a few emails is quite fast and would have prevent all these posts :)

Please post pics of the madds when u get them!

N.

That's exactly my point... it's not like I'm asking for much. I don't need for a blow-by-blow blog of the company's daily process... a simple 30 seconds "yes, we are very sorry for the delays, but the boardmakers have taken longer than expected" email would have sufficed. I thought as a paid customer I would deserve that very basic courtesy of having my email be replied to in a timely manner and not having to strangle the details out of them, especially when they were so adamant about how they were going to keep us informed with a "regular newsletter" which turned out to be "zero" updates.

I will definitely post photos of my board when I get it, and I'm sure I'll love it and ride it and whatever... but for now I'm just going to ride my longboard skateboard and have fun doing other things until the snow comes.

[Jack M]

My attitude has been that I don't need updates about a product I won't even be able to use for a number of <i>months</i>. Once the snow flies, I'll start to wonder. If I don't have my board by the time conditions are carveable, then I'll get serious.

I agree that this level of communication is unacceptable for a company, but at this point I don't really consider Madd as a "company", rather, a couple of guys having boards made in their spare time because they feel like it - not because it puts food on the table. Madd is back because of the positive vibe that surrounds our sport which has been directed their way. Let's not spoil that.

Sure, it would be <i>nice</i> to get an update here and there. But at the end of the day it's still summer and you still can't ride.

[D-Sub]

its annoying as hell when anyone youre doing business with simply ignores your emails. rude and unprofessional. no two ways about it.

Jack's got a point...far more casual than a normal board company

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

My attitude has been that I don't need updates about a product I won't even be able to use for a number of <i>months</i>. Once the snow flies, I'll start to wonder. If I don't have my board by the time conditions are carveable, then I'll get serious.

I agree that this level of communication is unacceptable for a company, but at this point I don't really consider Madd as a "company", rather, a couple of guys having boards made in their spare time because they feel like it - not because it puts food on the table. Madd is back because of the positive vibe that surrounds our sport which has been directed their way. Let's not spoil that.

Sure, it would be <i>nice</i> to get an update here and there. But at the end of the day it's still summer and you still can't ride.

That would be my attitude in general. Like if I were to have ordered a board from Coiler, I would be perfectly content to just go about life and just wait for my board to come whenever it "is ready." I would have been fine with Madd if they were up front with the fact that they would have limited customer service. However, Madd explicitly stated that it was going to keep customers in the loop on the status of their company, with a bi-weekly newsletter and all that.

It's that hypocrisy... pretending to be something that they were not - that's what annoys me. Even then I held my tongue for other a month, it was only when other people started voicing their concerns (Kirk, Bobdea, MikeT, etc) that I let them know that they were not alone.

I mean you did read the part where I mentioned that while I received no replies to the two latest emails I sent in July about the Madd snowboards. I DID get a quick reply to an email I sent inquirying about possibly making another purchase from them. What would you say to that? For me, it seems like a blatant act of neglect from the part of Madd - that it's too much "trouble" for them to fire off a quick 2 line email saying "sorry for the delays, we will let you know as soon as we know" type email. But the moment I imply that I might give them more money, suddenly I'm an important person again. It's the little things like this that make me understand why Madd Mike's has floundered in the past as company.

Again... I'm sure it will all turn out well and we will get out boards. But if they had just spent a little mroe effort in maintain a channel of communication with their paid customers... I think you wouldn't be seeing all the annoyed posts here (and I'm definitely not the only one).

[GeoffV]

I know we haven't gotten any updates in a long time, but come on the snow is still months away. Heck, Cheri even called me in Aug because she noticed I wasn't on the list to name my board. Back then she said delivery is in mid Sep. Well we still have plenty of time before there are carvable conditions. It will kill me now if I had a brand new MADD sitting in my basement and I can't use it for months.:( I'm just pumped that I actually got an order in for an elite board

:D

[Jack M]

Originally posted by lonerider

I mean you did read the part where I mentioned that while I received no replies to the two latest emails I sent in July about the Madd snowboards. I DID get a quick reply to an email I sent inquirying about possibly making another purchase from them. What would you say to that?

I agree it's not very professional and frustrating for you. But I give them the benefit of the doubt that snowboarding is probably not the "mode" they're in right now, and that they have to prioritize and ration their customer service efforts. They're probably spread very thin.

I also give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not out to screw anybody and that they'll make good eventually.

I'm simply choosing not to get frustrated yet. It's pretty easy and stress free.

My prediction is that you'll be enjoying your Madd by the time any real cord worth carving is rolled out. Surely you're not hoping to subject your pristine new top-shelf ride to November/December rocks.

Don't you think that checking on your board status in the middle of summer is sort of like micro-managing? I don't respond well to that at work.

As far as I know, Madd isn't like Donek or Prior - guys who have chosen to make snowboards for a career. Madd could easily tire of the customer relations and decide it's not worth it.

[nils]

Italy is a dead country for production in august, almost as bad as France!! the Whole country stops, takes a month off and u just have to wait for them to be back in september :)

N.!

[lonerider]

Everything you have said makes sense, which is why I haven't said anything about Madd in the last two months (as opposed to continual ranting).

However in the end you can't defend Madd... so please stop trying. I am annoyed at Madd, not irrationally furious, just annoyed in a cool collected way, and I believe I have a right to be. I'm not obsessing every minute about Madd... I didn't even think about them for a while... until other people voiced there concerns and I wanted to let them know that they weren't alone. Then suddenly the people keep trying to make excuses for them, when you don't even know the whole story yourself. I understand what you are saying and I have considered them myself... I undestand your opinion, and you are welcome to it. However, being an "outsider" on the snowboard industry, I don't have the ability or the prerogative to give the benefit of the doubt to them for continual missteps. And I'm beginning to get more annoyed at people trying to convince me that I should NOT be slightly displeased at the level of service we all have been receiving. You are welcome to say what you think as I am right now... but realize that you might end up foster more "displeasure" than "acceptance" in your vain attempts to excuse Madd's behavior.

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

Don't you think that checking on your board status in the middle of summer is sort of like micro-managing? I don't respond well to that at work.

I didn't email Madd about the board status. I emailed them about the topsheet (saying that I would prefer to have the original topsheet compared to the "new, improved" topsheet designs) and they replied to me that the boards would finished up "in a week" and that they would email me in "a few days" with a solution to the topsheet dilemma that they were "sure" everyone would be happy about about that there also would a newsletter posting discussing board tuning and delivery options. When a few days turned into a week. I emailed them again just to see what they did about the topsheet because I wanted to see what they decided before they sent to the design to "print".... no reply. When a week turned into a month, I emailed them again just asking for a general update and wondering if they would send me that basic update they promised and to make sure I was on the newsletter list (in case I just wasn't being sent these bi-weekly newsletters that they hyped up back in April)... still no reply.

So I've only sent 4 emails to Madd in total. One to make my order. One to present the results of the topsheet poll here on BOL and two follow-up emails that were never replied to. I see that several other BOL members did something similar to me.

[Jack M]

I'm not saying for a second that you are unjustified or unreasonable. I'm just offering my perspective on the situation and how I am able to deal with it and not worry about it. I don't have any intimate information about Madd. I'm just trying to suggest that there may be reasonable explanations for the silence that we can't imagine.

I do agree that we deserve better communication than what we've gotten, and that there's no excuse for cutting off correspondence in progress. But the reality is that as long as I have my board by the time I can carve it, nothing else really matters to me.

Another reality is that Madd is holding all the chips right now. There was a clamor for their boards, so they brought them back to life. The only leverage we have is our $100 deposits, which is not insignificant, but I don't think Madd is bound by the usual constraints of normal business. They're certainly not going to make much profit out of a two-board, alpine-only lineup (if any). So in many ways, they're doing us a favor by going to the effort of producing another run of their old boards.

[Guest Frappe]

I didn't order one (not enough money to spend on toys like that),

but if I did, and it got there in August, I'd have to spend the next 3 and a half months staring at it.

It would damage productivity, social life, etc, etc.

It's bad enough trying to get some work done in the basement without staring at the quiver.

Seriously though, Madd seems to be run by very laid back people, and that's not a bad thing. The bad thing as I see it is that they said they would keep everyone VERY up to date, and have a frequent newsletter, and they have not.

That's forgivable from a small-production, family company like that in my eyes. As long as the boards are done in time to ride them.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

I'm just trying to suggest that there may be reasonable explanations for the silence that we can't imagine.

There's no reasonable explanation. There's no excuse. They've got a mailing list. An email takes about 30 seconds to send. Nobody is so busy that they can't take 30 seconds to send an email. It's not like they have to respond to everybody individually, even though that wouldn't exactly be a Herculean task, either.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

I'm not saying for a second that you are unjustified or unreasonable. I'm just offering my perspective on the situation and how I am able to deal with it and not worry about it. I don't have any intimate information about Madd. I'm just trying to suggest that there may be reasonable explanations for the silence that we can't imagine.

I do agree that we deserve better communication than what we've gotten, and that there's no excuse for cutting off correspondence in progress. But the reality is that as long as I have my board by the time I can carve it, nothing else really matters to me.

Another reality is that Madd is holding all the chips right now. There was a clamor for their boards, so they brought them back to life. The only leverage we have is our $100 deposits, which is not insignificant, but I don't think Madd is bound by the usual constraints of normal business. They're certainly not going to make much profit out of a two-board, alpine-only lineup (if any). So in many ways, they're doing us a favor by going to the effort of producing another run of their old boards.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense... except perhaps the "reasonable explanation" part, as Neil just remarked upon. But whatever... yes, I agree that having the board sit in my closet would be useless right now. I also agree that they more or less brought "Madd" out of defunct limbo because of the grassroots demand for the boards and so we do owe them some gratitude for that - again though... gratitude only goes so far...

So yea... in the end it isn't the worse thing in the world and you are right, Madd isn't really in it like Donek or Prior so we shouldn't expect the same level of commitment. I've pretty much said my mind and I'm content to leave it at that.

[Guest AlpentalRider]

If Madd Snowboards is operating as a business then they should be held to the same standards as Burton, Donek, etc. There's no excuse for how they have treated their customers, and based on what I've seen they won't be seeing any of my money.

No board is so important for me to spend my hard-earned cash on if I'm not important enough to be responded to in a timely manner. The same goes for Bomber and everyone else.

Matter of fact, I bought my Suzukas from Bomber becuase of how Michelle took the time out of her schedule to talk to me about boots and fit. I could have bought my boots from alot of other places and spent less money, but Bomber got my business because of how they represented themselves. And I will continue to go to Bomber for anything I can because of how I was treated by Michelle. That one experiance has made a repeat customer for them.

I'm sure there are alot of other people out there with the same mentality as myself, and if Madd chooses not to understand that fact, then they would be better off hanging it up becuase they will tarnish their reputation beyond repair - regardless of how good their boards are.

[Jack M]

There's a roadside burger joint in my town with a sign inside that reads:

"This isn't Burger King. You don't get it your way. You take it my way, or you don't get the damn thing."

Often they have lines out the door.

[Mike T]

Yeah, ideally I'd like updates from Madd on a more frequent basis. Lack of communication especially after sending a deposit is kinda annoying.

But I'm not going to sweat it unless it's getting to be around Thanksgiving and I don't have the board, or a timeframe for when I can expect the board.

Good, touchy-feely customer service is something I appreciate and something I'm willing to pay for. For example, I've bought bindings from Bomber and boards from Donek at full price, knowing full well that I could cruise the classifieds and get the same exact item in slightly used condition for less, because I know that if somethiong goes even a little bit wrong, they will go out of their way to make it right.

I know I'm getting my Madd at less-than-full price and that's part of the reason why I am not going to hold "lack of communication" against them at this time. Also, my wife has her own home-based business and is helping a friend with another, and I see the lengths she has to go through to keep her customers happy. Even if it is minorly annoying, I'm more than willing to give Madd the benefit of the doubt... I am quite optimistic that the board will be in the rack in my family room well before there is enough snow to ride it.

I'm not defending Madd's sparse communication, I'm just saying I'm reserving judgment until the transaction is complete, and that I am optimistic that I'll be happy in the end.

-Mike T

P.S. Low-effort suggestion for Madd: a sentence or two update on production once every week or two on the maddmikes.com website.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

There's a roadside burger joint in my town with a sign inside that reads:

"This isn't Burger King. You don't get it your way. You take it my way, or you don't get the damn thing."

Often they have lines out the door.

Likewise, Coiler is perpetually backlogged these days and it doesn't seem like that stops the orders from coming in.

I do agree with Arvin on the Coiler point though... Bruce is very up-front about production schedules, and the fact that he depends on multiple suppliers any of which can impact deliveries... and the fact that everyone in line before you gets the same amount of attention that you're going to get when your number is up. Bruce is not always immediate with email responses (but he does respond eventually), but he provides very unique customer service by designing the board specifically for the rider and to me, that's more important. BTW, I ordered my 2nd Coiler within a week after getting the 1st one...

[Shred Gruumer]

Well, hows this I ordered a Coiler too!

Fuq Ing in March of 2003!!!!! with a good deposit!! its been done and waiting for a top sheet for almost 2 fqing years! hows that!

Well thats the first I have vented online about it!

And still no fricken Coiler! Bruce is probably still flying those silly kites! I'll give him till the pond starts freezing,, then no more mr. Nice guy!

feel that pain! knowing its done but the God dam topsheet guy in Washington (hope your listening!) gets off his arse and make a top sheet worthy to glue onto Balsa!

Dammit!

Shred

[Neil Gendzwill]

That seals it - I was tossing around the idea of a custom topsheet for my Coiler, but I'll stick with one of the stock ones. Hopefully that will increase the likelihood of me being on snow with it this year. Anyone know if Coiler intends on updating their website this year? They've been on vacation since May, apparently.

[D-Sub]

Ive gotten responses from Bruce every time Ive emailed.

pretty impressed with him, actually. no idea about the webpage update but aside from the on vacation part, it seems to work just fine.

could do with some modernization, but...the data is readily available, as needed.

custom topsheet would be sick...but fck that on the long wait!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Was just wondering if he was adding any more stock topsheets. Someone last year had a sort of black and red tribal tatoo dealie on an AM 177 that looked pretty cool and the sort of thing that might have mass appeal. 'spose I could just email him.