Game Changer

[Jack M]

BTW, if your quest for Kessler turned out unsuccessfull, I could send you mine for test ride next season, in exchange for a test ride of Schtubby M ;)

Hehe. Thanks buddy, but it looks like Bola will broker for me.

can you describe the board - i.e. - it's design intention re: intended usage, terrain, rider ability, etc. Is it designed for race or free carve, and how does it compare to the Monster?

It's Coiler's answer to a Kessler, so you can think of it as a race board and/or a long freecarve board. It's 185, so by that sheer fact it's not very maneuverable when not carving compared to my 170. I believe it's 20.5cm wide, and the Monster is about 23cm wide, so that's a significant difference. It <i>should</i> carve longer than the Monster which has a blended radius of 14 to 15m, I believe. Terrain is groomers only, but the nose makes easy work of afternoon chop. Rider ability should be expert. You need to be able to carve at about 40mph (best guess) and you really need to know when and how to pull the e-brake.

[pokkis]

I dont fully agree Jack's comments of requirements

I feel that my 182 works very well on slower speeds, special problem on our local bunny hills is that it is too easy to kill speed in tight turns but with NSR it is not case, long tail radius just speeds up coming out óf turn and keeps/increase speed for full fun for full slope. And whe i say bunny hill i mean vertical drop 300 feet

For me that board is real enjoy to ride in steeper slopes like in Zinal or local ones. And when you ask board to turn tight, it will do easily without too much extra effort, and when you want speed, it will give it for you without any fear. I'm sold for this board, i need another one too:1luvu:

[Bordy]

Jack,

I am glad you stepped out of the world of the free carve and into the Turn.

The NSR is a sick ride, I rode the SES model and loved it, Its a lot damper then most of its pers, Bruce has been doing a great job.

From what I have read online the side cut radius of true PGS boards just arn't usable to free ride all day, you really need around a 14m radius is what I here from one guy all the time. It's fun to see the stoke in your post.

You have finally riden a PGS stick that is "new school" the same shape sevaral of us have been pimping as the best snowboard shape and ride to date for years, I think the NSR ride is different then the Kessler, Prior, feel they have more Pop. But has some of the characteristics of the SG, Shape I under stand the Black Pearls are very damp also. I think the tail on the NSR is different then other PGS boards not better or worse just different.

Gotta Back Pokkis, No problems turning the NSR or Monster tight, you just have to want it and but in enough days each year to do so.

Yea Jack has spent one day on a good board....Now go ride it more!

[Jack M]

Jack,

I am glad you stepped out of the world of the free carve and into the Turn.

Hey now, most of my experience has been on "race" boards, this was just my first of the "new school" variety. These NSR shapes simply haven't been easy to get in North America until very recently. I grew up on the Safari, PJs, FPs, and then Prior WCR, Donek 186. Then I went "freecarve" I guess you could say with the Madd 170, then the first-gen Prior 177 WCR Metal, then my Coiler Schtubby. And I've had a Madd 180 since '05, a stiff 16m mofo which you could call an old-school GS shape. I enjoy full-on race boards very much.

From what I have read online the side cut radius of true PGS boards just arn't usable to free ride all day, you really need around a 14m radius is what I here from one guy all the time.

That wouldn't be me. True, my Schtubby is 14m and I love it to death, but I wouldn't tell anyone that's what you have to have.

It's fun to see the stoke in your post.

:D

You have finally riden a PGS stick that is "new school" the same shape sevaral of us have been pimping as the best snowboard shape and ride to date for years

I guess "finally" is the right word, but I would also say that <i>finally</i> true new-school PGS sticks are becoming more available.

Gotta Back Pokkis, No problems turning the NSR or Monster tight, you just have to want it and but in enough days each year to do so.

I want to try mounting it further forward. In the middle inserts plus a 1/2 inch back on the back foot I think I had a fair amount of setback. It was a significant effort to really hammer the nose from there. But still at 185 it's simply not an every-day board.

Yea Jack has spent one day on a good board....Now go ride it more!

Come now, you make it sound like I've never ridden a good board, or haven't really been able to have fun on a snowboard until now. It's not like I've been riding nothing but Asyms in one-piece suits all along. My Schtubby is still king for a do-everything freecarve stick. I took my Madd 180 out for a day this year and had an absolute blast. Sure, coming off the metal its limitations were more obvious, but they certainly didn't ruin my day.

To make the car analogy, I think the difference between "old school" shapes/materials and these world cup level boards is like the difference between a BMW 3 and a BMW M3 or an Audi A4 and an Audi S4... the M3 or S4 are better of course, but the others are still fun to drive.

[pokkis]

I want to try mounting it further forward. In the middle inserts plus a 1/2 inch back on the back foot I think I had a fair amount of setback. It was a significant effort to really hammer the nose from there. But still at 185 it's simply not an every-day board.

I've on just middle-to-middle on my NSR, it is built for 54cm stance so that smallest stance goes 50cm to install Vist there. I'm now riding without Vist, just to avoid snow collecting in middle section of Vist :rolleyes:

[Mike T]

It's Coiler's answer to a Kessler, so you can think of it as a race board and/or a long freecarve board. It's 185, so by that sheer fact it's not very maneuverable when not carving compared to my 170.

I find it quite maneuverable especially given its length.... similar level of maneuverability as my old Donek FC 175!

I believe it's 20.5cm wide, and the Monster is about 23cm wide, so that's a significant difference. It <i>should</i> carve longer than the Monster which has a blended radius of 14 to 15m, I believe.

I believe the standard NSR 185 template is 20cm (I had thought mine was 19.5, Bruce corrected me at OES...) Monsters come in many widths... there was a 20, 22 and 23 at OES. Sidecuts were 14-15 and 15-16, lengths were 182 and 188.

I bought the 182/20w/14-15scr Monster loaner after OES, my NSR most definitely carves longer. The flexes on the two boards are night and day different, the NSR being substantially stiffer feeling than the Monster in the middle and tail and I think a bit stiffer in the nose.

Terrain is groomers only, but the nose makes easy work of afternoon chop. Rider ability should be expert. You need to be able to carve at about 40mph (best guess) and you really need to know when and how to pull the e-brake.

I've had mine for 15 months, and probably have 40 days on it. Sure, I call myself an "expert" in the company of the general skiing population, but among other serious carvers calling myself "advanced" might be a little presumptuous. I don't take mine on narrow runs with trees right at the edge but as Jack says treat it like a longboard. I've been radar gunned at 46mph on mine, and that was "going down the fall line on edge" as opposed to actively carving or riding flat. Yes, the board WILL pick up speed quickly but if you're not comfortable at speed now, you will be after a few days on one of these.

E-brake: no problem, as the NSR's ability to carve is superb, but so is its ability to skid in a controlled manner.

Either I'm a better rider than I think I am (ha!) or you don't need to be an expert to ride an NSR, just willing to put in a little bit of time to get used to it (3 days?)

[LeGogoussier]

As I was looking up what 'NSR' actually stands for I came across this:

http://www.nationalswine.com/contact/contactusstaff.html

The NSR board attracts some unlikely people !

Make sure to visit the NSR store for caps, fleece jackets, etc ;)

[Mike T]

I've on just middle-to-middle on my NSR, it is built for 54cm stance so that smallest stance goes 50cm to install Vist there. I'm now riding without Vist, just to avoid snow collecting in middle section of Vist :rolleyes:

I'm pretty much middle to middle on mine as well. Actually the front binding is on the middle inserts but moved forward maybe 1/4" (F2 bindings - lots of freedom in that respect) and the back binding is dead center. This yields about a 19.75" stance and I find it pretty easy to turn it hard.

[csquared]

Another convert. I have to say the NSR shape is a revelation.

Bruce loaned me a 178 proto that took the NSR shape to extremes: 11.5/13.5/17 sidecut with 25 mm of taper. The proto was intended for BX and was molded base high to permit a certain amount of high-speed sliding/gliding. Bruce sanded out some of the base high condition but the rear 12" of the board run up to about 1/8" base high. The flex is 6.6 ish whereas I have been riding 7.7 stiffness Coilers for a long time.

I instantly fell in love with the board on thin and hardpack conditions where it hangs on like nothing I've every ridden. The turny nose is surprisingly controllable with no tendency to hook even in heavier snow. But you can really work tight turns in the steeps with this thing or back off and enjoy the stability of the 17 m sidecut. Takes a little work to get turns going at lower speeds on shallower slopes but I think I still need to experiment with moving the bindings further forward as Jack mentioned. Can't say that I notice any positive or negative aspect to the base high condition at the tail.

I love the board so much, Bruce is never getting it back.

Luckily I didn't give up my day job when I tried out as a Coiler apprentice. You guys would all be riding some pretty sad boards. Be patient. It will be worth the wait.

[NateW]

Pretty much every board has a slightly decambered nose, in that the nose turns up an inch or so before the widest part of the board, and the widest part sits a couple millimeters off the snow. I've noticed this in every board I've looked closely at.*

With the NSR and similar (Kessler? Virus?) boards, have the builder's just taken that idea further? Or is it something totally different? Put another way, if you set the board on the floor, where does the effective edge end? And how far off the floor is the widest parts of the nose and tail?

I'd really like to understand what makes the new boards tick before I buy one, and knowing how they're shaped is kind of a pre-requisite for that. :)

I was wondering about these boards today riding a lift behind a skier with wacky multicamber skis. The middle section had camber, but in between the binding and the nose/tail, the ski kinked upward. It hit me that if you do this subtly, you should get a board/ski that rides a lot like a short board (only better) when the base is flat on the snow (short effective edge, but "long" swing weight) but it should still carve just fine.

And that's when I got interested in this whole decamber idea.

I find it sorta fascinating that the freestyle guys have been riding boards like this as well lately. Racers, skiers, freestylers... maybe there's something to this after all. :)

* With one exception. I rode one board where the widest part is right where the nose starts to turn up. I didn't notice this until after I rode it, when I went back to see how much the owner had detuned it to get such a neutral feel when riding with the base flat. It had not been detuned. I still don't understand it and I haven't slept right since.

[Bordy]

Hey now, most of my experience has been on "race" boards, this was just my first of the "new school" variety. These NSR shapes simply haven't been easy to get in North America until very recently. I grew up on the Safari, PJs, FPs, and then Prior WCR, Donek 186. Then I went "freecarve" I guess you could say with the Madd 170, then the first-gen Prior 177 WCR Metal, then my Coiler Schtubby. And I've had a Madd 180 since '05, a stiff 16m mofo which you could call an old-school GS shape. I enjoy full-on race boards very much.

Easy....How many of the board you mentioned were true race boards. As in the same boards we were riding in race courses, vs what you had????

That wouldn't be me. True, my Schtubby is 14m and I love it to death, but I wouldn't tell anyone that's what you have to have.

You have used your stubby as radail referance in several post. Claiming its the "perfect shape" for what you do even disclaiming other shapes since you felt the radius was incorrect based on your experances.

:D

I guess "finally" is the right word, but I would also say that <i>finally</i> true new-school PGS sticks are becoming more available.

I want to try mounting it further forward. In the middle inserts plus a 1/2 inch back on the back foot I think I had a fair amount of setback. It was a significant effort to really hammer the nose from there. But still at 185 it's simply not an every-day board.

Yes it is for lots of riders its a everyday board just not for you. I ride a 200 all the time, and for funn little turn days i size down to a 175. The current board shape is made to be ridden upright with a high balanced chest, hammering the nose is not nessasry nore is the board ment to be ridden as such, ride the stance in the middle of the inserts, thats why bruce put them there...

Come now, you make it sound like I've never ridden a good board, or haven't really been able to have fun on a snowboard until now. It's not like I've been riding nothing but Asyms in one-piece suits all along. My Schtubby is still king for a do-everything freecarve stick. I took my Madd 180 out for a day this year and had an absolute blast. Sure, coming off the metal its limitations were more obvious, but they certainly didn't ruin my day.

Come on your madd is no race stick no one would dare try to put it into a course, (ok I have but it blew). But considering you haven't ridden the boards on the podium or the binding systems and plates that these athletes are riding how current are you really???

To make the car analogy, I think the difference between "old school" shapes/materials and these world cup level boards is like the difference between a BMW 3 and a BMW M3 or an Audi A4 and an Audi S4... the M3 or S4 are better of course, but the others are still fun to drive.

No way It more like A4 to a indy car, the boards on the WC podium are the fastest cleanest turning prodect to date. Your schtubby doesn't come close and remember you only rode a Kessler copy, and probably with bindings no one else rides that shape with for a reason. You still haven't ridden the true hotness...

Point is plan and simple, your opinions and board feel are based on what you have ridden up until now. You listed the board you have been riding... The NSR is really just one shape amoung 10 great new boards out there to ride.

I just find it interesting that so many riders on the board will discount things before trying them, Rocker, Metal, New School shapes.

You rode a board some rocker some thing you and Shawn said would not work. Of course the next time I saw Shawn he build a rockered and was stoked about it... Funny huh?

I'm not calling you guilty of being uneducated, but unexperanced may be the correct term. Now that you have ridden one New school race shape you call your thoughts on it after one day "game changer" Why guys like Phil and Bola and Pokikis and others that are trying new shapes and keeping up with the Joneses have been pitching the same concept for years, only to watch yourself and other "freecarvers" vent how raceboard only have a place in a race course and the turn is different...etc. etc, etc..... So it is very amusing to see you post about your first day on one, after reading so many other post by you while wishing you only knew.....Now you have one day in the know, and thats nice. Perhaps I won't cringe as hard when I see you or one of the east coast crew claim madds have the best edge hold ever. Or that Coilers are the only board worth buying when that all the new school gear you have ridden.

[purpletiesto]

Since it IS my board, I'll post a pic. :-)

Not in action though.

->Ben

Is that a custom topsheet or one of Bruce's standard ones?

argh! how do I quote the picture as well? :( I'm a newb

[bschurman]

Is that a custom topsheet or one of Bruce's standard ones?

Custom. Thank you, Steve Fleck!

[Jack M]

Easy....How many of the board you mentioned were true race boards. As in the same boards we were riding in race courses, vs what you had????

Zero, and that's part of my point. Until very recently, you couldn't even get your hands on a true race board unless you were in the industry or in the top level of the game. And now, well, that's still mostly true except that you can get a "true" race board but you have to be ready to pay dearly for it. Bola has brokered a custom Kessler 185 for me (being built next week!!), but I'm shelling out $1500 for the experience. I better get a reach-around.

You have used your stubby as radail referance in several post. Claiming its the "perfect shape" for what you do even disclaiming other shapes since you felt the radius was incorrect based on your experances.

Are you the only one allowed to call anything incorrect? I don't call many things incorrect around here, but when people get silly I speak up. 14m on a 210 is silly. 11m on a 179 is silly. Me saying how great my Schtubby is <i>for what I do</i> doesn't mean all others are inferior.

Yes it is for lots of riders its a everyday board just not for you. I ride a 200 all the time, and for funn little turn days i size down to a 175.

So you don't ride your 200 every day. That's all I'm saying. The Schtubbies (and I assume the B²) are quiver killers. Prior used to use 14m on their 187. No need. A 171/14 can carve like that 187, but it can also jump into the trees, play on the side of the trail, do moguls, and blast through cut-up powder. <i>THAT</i> is what I call an every day board. Anything say 180 or longer will not be as versatile or fun in those conditions. A lot of people here can only justify owning one board, so a 185 GS board would be limiting for them. (My Donek 186 was my only board for a season)

The current board shape is made to be ridden upright with a high balanced chest,

I ride with a more upright chest. Chest on knees is bad.

Come on your madd is no race stick no one would dare try to put it into a course, (ok I have but it blew). But considering you haven't ridden the boards on the podium or the binding systems and plates that these athletes are riding how current are you really???

No way It more like A4 to a indy car,

Even better. So let's say most of us on this forum are Audi A4 enthusiasts. You coming here and telling us that because our cars lack F1 technology we are not current and inexperienced... that may be accurate, but for the majority of people here it's irrelevant because the F1 technology is simply inaccessible for a raft of reasons, including availability and price.

Remember a lot of people's board budget is <i>half or less</i> than that of a new Kessler. The harcores might devote a grand, and only the super-hardcores will step up to the Kessler/SG/Black Pearl price point. Nevermind the extra $500 or whatever for a Vist. The ONLY reason I am able to do that now is because a few financial stars have come into alignment, including refinancing our home and getting a new job.

the boards on the WC podium are the fastest cleanest turning prodect to date.

That is not in question.

Your schtubby doesn't come close and remember you only rode a Kessler copy, and probably with bindings no one else rides that shape with for a reason. You still haven't ridden the true hotness...

I've ridden the true hotness of the league I'm playing in. The Schtubby is what it is for specific (and broad) reasons. I will buy another when this one wears out.

If I went to a Honda Civic tuner's forum and said the new BMW M3 is the true hotness, you guys need to get with the program, I'd get shunned instantly.

I just find it interesting that so many riders on the board will discount things before trying them, Rocker, Metal, New School shapes.

You rode a board with some rocker some thing you and Shawn said would not work. Of course the next time I saw Shawn he build a rockered and was stoked about it... Funny huh?

Please don't misquote me. I never said decambered noses would not work. I said whole-board rocker would not work and I still believe that.

I'm not calling you guilty of being uneducated, but unexperanced may be the correct term. Now that you have ridden one New school race shape you call your thoughts on it after one day "game changer" Why guys like Phil and Bola and Pokikis and others that are trying new shapes and keeping up with the Joneses have been pitching the same concept for years, only to watch yourself and other "freecarvers" vent how raceboard only have a place in a race course and the turn is different...etc. etc, etc.....

More misquoting. I've never dismissed race shapes and race tech. I'm flattered you seem to think I am the voice of freecarvers, but you are attributing a lot of things that other people have said to me and you are incorrect there.

I also think you are sometimes hypersensitive when people do say race gear is not for them. They probably have additional priorities (playing in bumps, trees, powder, etc) or maybe they don't like to go that fast, or maybe their carving abilities aren't up to the level where they would appreciate race gear.

Phil and Bola have the same access as you, and Pokkis seems to have a quantity of discretionary income. Coiler and Prior providing new school race tech/shapes to the masses in a durable form is a relatively new thing, so yeah, it's a game changer <i>for us</i>, but not because I said so.

So it is very amusing to see you post about your first day on one, after reading so many other post by you while wishing you only knew.....Now you have one day in the know, and thats nice. Perhaps I won't cringe as hard when I see you or one of the east coast crew claim madds have the best edge hold ever. Or that Coilers are the only board worth buying when that all the new school gear you have ridden.

For people with average access to gear, Madds and Doneks did have the best edge hold, imo. For that same group of people, I would now say that Coiler and Prior have raised the bar and are the best values on the market.

Bordy, nobody is disputing your status or knowledge. You simply have access to gear that us mere mortals do not. I think you need to realize you are one of an elite, lucky few and temper your tone with some humbleness. You have made your choices and sacrifices in life to get to this point, and my hat is off to you. My fellow weekend warriors and I chose different paths that didn't prioritize world-level snowboarding. Feel free to be amused by us, but please keep that to yourself. If you could apply your wisdom here more constructively, you'd be a god.

[Bordy]

I've ridden the true hotness of the league I'm playing in. The Schtubby is what it is for specific (and broad) reasons. I will buy another when this one wears out.

You have already closed your mind to the fact better boards should be produced by the time your Hotness wears out, Since you will get another.

Are you the only one allowed to call anything incorrect? I don't call many things incorrect around here, but when people get silly I speak up. 14m on a 210 is silly. 11m on a 179 is silly. Me saying how great my Schtubby is for what I do doesn't mean all others are inferior.

Come on don't make me do a search to find where you have said thiks like"if the radius is around 14m it should rip" Just using your experance with 14 to assume the board should be good when it could be great with 18.5 or 20m

So you don't ride your 200 every day. That's all I'm saying. The Schtubbies (and I assume the B2) are quiver killers. Prior used to use 14m on their 187. No need. A 171/14 can carve like that 187, but it can also jump into the trees, play on the side of the trail, do moguls, and blast through cut-up powder. THAT is what I call an every day board. Anything say 180 or longer will not be as versatile or fun in those conditions. A lot of people here can only justify owning one board, so a 185 GS board would be limiting for them. (My Donek 186 was my only board for a season)

Again you are saying anything over 180 or longer will not be versatile. I am saying thats just not true lots of folks never toach anything under 180???

Oh and your Donek well most doneks really don't count, they were not on par with the current boards of the day, just avalable to anyone who could pay for one. Love shawn and what he has done just not a fan of the prodect.

Remember a lot of people's board budget is half or less than that of a new Kessler. The harcores might devote a grand, and only the super-hardcores will step up to the Kessler/SG/Black Pearl price point. Nevermind the extra $500 or whatever for a Vist. The ONLY reason I am able to do that now is because a few financial stars have come into alignment, including refinancing our home and getting a new job.

Just not true and it only taking on veiw, Lots of people here have a quiver of boards worth sevral thousands of dollars, thats the norm not one board, also you can buy these "rare" boards all over the internet.

Do not mistake, "I never needed or wanted a Kessler becuase I was pretty sure they were not needed" with I couldn't get one, or I don't ride enough to justify one. I saw used one all summmer for good prices I have friends that are not racer and dont have FIS numbers with 3 or four big Ks??? I make less then 6 thousand bones a year and have a pretty sick quiver i don't think its a money thing for true passionate riders.

Please don't misquote me. I never said decambered noses would not work. I said whole-board rocker would not work and I still believe that.

I'll try and convence my full rockered board it doesn't work while I am riding it today...

More misquoting. I've never dismissed race shapes and race tech. I'm flattered you seem to think I am the voice of freecarvers, but you are attributing a lot of things that other people have said to me and you are incorrect there.

Ok lets be honest here, Since you have posted most of the how to stuff on the intro page most people think you are a industry rider. I know what you bring to the table, but often its out of date and based on just the experance you have in your own little carving community, not world wide or even national wide or regonally, just locally. I am not saying thats bad just that it is only influanced by a few factors. and that for years most of the info , advise, and opions you give are based on that. My knowledge pool is different, much more diveresed and so are my opionion expesally when it comes to prodect.

For people with average access to gear, Madds and Doneks did have the best edge hold, imo. For that same group of people, I would now say that Coiler and Prior have raised the bar and are the best values on the market.

Come on it was harder to get a madd then a Kessler...unless you lived on the east coast and always had mikes nuts in your hands, And like I have always said I love what shawn brought to the industry but just wood and glass with a shape, nothing specail ever...

And currently I love what bruce is doing but Prior is making the stand the Guy doesn't really make money selling alpine gear, he uses tha fact that he has a manufactoring facility to make sick race shapes cuz he loves alpine, using money made from other shapes, bruce is one dude in a house trying very hard and making great gear, It funny that every one (most who have never ridden Kesslers, Prior race shapes, SG ETC) will pitch Bruces prodect as the best thing ever then back up his whole summer and bitch about how long it takes but you can get on line and order a similar if not better riding board for the same cash and have it in a week or two. But instead of "supporting the industry it supports one guy, Bruce. Of course i love and comend bruce for what he is doing. I wish shawn would listen to rider input then his prodect would get better but no.....he puts all his eggs in one basket.

Bordy, nobody is disputing your status or knowledge. You simply have access to gear that us mere mortals do not. I think you need to realize you are one of an elite, lucky few and temper your tone with some humbleness. You have made your choices and sacrifices in life to get to this point, and my hat is off to you. My fellow weekend warriors and I chose different paths that didn't prioritize world-level snowboarding. Feel free to be amused by us, but please keep that to yourself. If you could apply your wisdom here more constructively, you'd be a god.

Lets be real My status and knowledge gets disputed every time I post, I am way beyond that. We both know I am a very nice guy so i write what i would say knowing that everyone I am speaking to knows what a nice guy i am. I really don't have the time to carefully word my post on a snowboard forum. And maybe you made my point for me. The input i have is much different then yours and the other weekend warriors I am often ammused by thoose of you. I never bellittle your contrabutions but I am surprised by the athority that you post with ,when often the experance just is not there anymore. Its not about applying my wisdom constructivley to appise others to be a GOD here that is not what i am about, Its about coming on line and being myself, not a internet poser, It would be real easy to sit back and only interject here or there and keep it very sensitive and try to establish some bogus busness deminor but thats not me, thats just fake.

Lets cut to the chase i sit and giggle at most of the cute little post, and like to see the stoke on the board, however I'll still be here preaching the truth, no matter how it sits with others.

[shawndoggy]

Billy, you clearly hold the sport near and dear and you are clearly qualified to give authoritative opinions.

What I think the weekend warriors among us find frustrating is that your posts focus so much on why you know more than the rest of us, rather than on educating us. I'm not asking you to adopt a "fake" tone but rather to explain whys and hows.

For example, I'd love to see your take on questions like:

What's a good on/off piste compromise board and why?

You say Jack's technique articles are outdated... what would you change and why?

[Bruce Varsava]

It funny that every one (most who have never ridden Kesslers, Prior race shapes, SG ETC) will pitch Bruces prodect as the best thing ever then back up his whole summer and bitch about how long it takes but you can get on line and order a similar if not better riding board for the same cash and have it in a week or two.

Holy S#*t!

Where can I get a similar one for same price and in 2 weeks? I'll take a day off and just buy one:lol:

[tex1230]

Holy S#*t!

Where can I get a similar one for cheaper and in 2 weeks? I'll take a day off and just buy one:lol:

NOOOO!!! NO DAYS OFF!!!! YOU HAVE ORDERS TO FILL!!!!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Are you charging Kessler Kash for your creations these days, Bruce?

[Jack M]

You say Jack's technique articles are outdated... what would you change and why?

FWIW, I'll tell you what I am in the process of changing right now. Most of the articles were written in the mid-late 90's, at a time when most freecarvers on the hill were riding with their back knee tucked into the pocket of their front knee, and with their chest facing the toeside edge, and reaching down to touch the snow on toeside because that's cool, and hanging their ass off the board on heelside. My articles exaggerated the idea of facing the nose of the board because when I was an instructor I found that to get students to get out of their bad positions and into good ones, I had to tell them to shoot past the target in order to hit the target. In other words, face the nose, when in fact facing the binding angles is just fine, and that's where they would usually end up.

I'm rewording them now because most people don't really ride that poorly anymore.

[Bordy]

Holy S#*t!

Where can I get a similar one for same price and in 2 weeks? I'll take a day off and just buy one:lol:

When it comes to race sticks we both know they are out there. I get boards for athletes all the time some new others used and these are foot and weight spacific not a geniric shape like the SG line, have you ridden the new SG shape? Very nice i bet you would like it more NSR like then the Kesslers but thick holy crap thick! they are for sale online. Bola also, Very nice ride, Kessler from bola or others(catek, etc.) also.

You know I love ya and the prodect you put out, your out put is based on you working your ass off so the pace is different, thats the point I was trying to make. If you could make 10 NSR Or Zambonis a day things would be different, Just like if Kessler could also, You don't need a Cable car to get to your shop though. And thats nice!, Oh yea and we both know your Cheaper good point. I am to ADHD to wait for your gear.;)

[Bruce Varsava]

Because real racers need boards in real time, it was too stressful for them and me to continue at the higher levels as I never really plan on increasing capacity that much so could never keep up with demand if it ever happened my way. My NSRs are built to perform at provincial level or state level races and never any more. I had one tested by a WC athlete and they stated " too turny" and of course I thought PERFECT!

One point I do get from this is almost everyone in Alpine seems to do it and lose money. Well I don't have that luxury anymore after quitting my day job 3 years ago. I never went to business school but common sense told me to do something differently and while it is a lot of labour on my end, it does pay the bills and leaves a bit of beer money at the end of the day, Also nice to be dealing in a fun business and with cool people ( mostly) .

Used or outdated race gear( 2 weeks old) surely can be bought cheap and that is another reason I don't put all my efforts that way. One has to consider why athletes are selling those of course. If it is a real good board, its probably beat,( racers usually do not leave good boards on the shelf) if it isn't a good board or its outdated, that may be why its for sale. Naturally there are some good buuys out there but it also takes knowledge and sometimes a leap of faith to get them

Building boards for the side of the market which are not top level athletes has challenges of its own and also many personal rewards for the riders and myself. Testing is a load of fun as the boards are quite versatile and each has its own personality. With most of the designs you do not have to be " full on" to make them work well.

The most satisfaction I get is when a feedback report comes in from a rider and they say they have upped their game and are now doing stuff they could not do before. I like to think that sometimes my efforts have let them challenge themselves and have some new experiences maybe otherwise unavailable or too costly

So for now I'll keep muddling along doing what I do and of course I realize the waiting time is a pain but it takes a lot of effort to build the boards the way I do it . However, it usually gets very positive results. If I knew of a better way I would be doing it. I'm more interested in the end product rather than the process and will never eliminate a step to save time if it affects the outcome.

Cheers

[Bruce Varsava]

Are you charging Kessler Kash for your creations these days, Bruce?

Not with you on this one? If you are asking about pricing, about 1/2 price I would think when all is factored in

[Jack M]

Come on don't make me do a search to find where you have said thiks like"if the radius is around 14m it should rip" Just using your experance with 14 to assume the board should be good when it could be great with 18.5 or 20m

I've ridden 15m, 16m, 17m, 18.5m. 18.5m or 20m on a 170cm Schtubby would not be as versatile as 13 or 14m. We don't have that kind of real estate out here.

Again you are saying anything over 180 or longer will not be versatile. I am saying thats just not true lots of folks never toach anything under 180???

No, I'm saying a 170 will be more versatile. It's simple physics. A 170 will have lower swing weight than a 180 or 185.

Oh and your Donek well most doneks really don't count, they were not on par with the current boards of the day, just avalable to anyone who could pay for one. Love shawn and what he has done just not a fan of the prodect.

Ouch! Were racers using metal and clothoids and decambered noses in 2000-2003? If so I hadn't heard. In those days at the ECES there were twice as many Doneks on the hill as all other boards put together. What wasn't Donek on par with? F2? Burton? Did you try racing a Donek back then? Doneks were leaps and bounds better than anything available at retail from F2 or Burton.

Remember a lot of people's board budget is half or less than that of a new Kessler.

Just not true and it only taking on veiw, Lots of people here have a quiver of boards worth sevral thousands of dollars, thats the norm

That is most definitely NOT the norm.

I have friends that are not racer and dont have FIS numbers with 3 or four big Ks??? I make less then 6 thousand bones a year and have a pretty sick quiver i don't think its a money thing for true passionate riders.

It's not a money thing for true passionate riders, but I think a scant minority of hardbooters fit your definition of true passionate rider. I bet I don't.

I'll try and convence my full rockered board it doesn't work while I am riding it today...

Tangent alert... but are you talking about a full-rocker race board?

Ok lets be honest here, Since you have posted most of the how to stuff on the intro page most people think you are a industry rider. I know what you bring to the table, but often its out of date and based on just the experance you have in your own little carving community, not world wide or even national wide or regonally, just locally. ... I never bellittle your contrabutions

If you don't understand how you just belittled me, then... wow.

Like I said, I play in the league of people who have to live in reality. You play in the league of professional athletes. In my league, accessible new school racing products is a relatively new thing.

Lets be real My status and knowledge gets disputed every time I post

Actually it doesn't. Only your online attitude does.

We both know I am a very nice guy

yes we do.

so i write what i would say knowing that everyone I am speaking to knows what a nice guy i am.

yeah... how's that working for you?

And maybe you made my point for me. The input i have is much different then yours and the other weekend warriors I am often ammused by thoose of you. I never bellittle your contrabutions but I am surprised by the athority that you post with ,when often the experance just is not there anymore.

If I'm so isolated and inexperienced and outdated, then how was I able to even ride the NSR? I didn't have to re-learn alpine just to make it work, quite the contrary, the board was <i>easier</i> to ride fast than any longboard I've ever been on! How is that possible when I clearly don't know what I'm doing? And hey, I'll bet you the board that my first day on my Kessler will kick ass!! Golly!!

Someone else made this point and it is sooo true: the new school race boards are like the new F1 cars and MotoGP motorcycles with their traction control, stability control, anti-lock brakes, semi-automatic transmissions, etc: Easier to ride fast. But the best drivers are the ones who grew up on the old crap. I have that foundation.

Its not about applying my wisdom constructivley to appise others to be a GOD here that is not what i am about, Its about coming on line and being myself, not a internet poser, It would be real easy to sit back and only interject here or there and keep it very sensitive and try to establish some bogus busness deminor but thats not me, thats just fake.

No, the easy thing is to just sit back and be yourself, unfiltered, and say well if anyone can't handle "the truth" that's their problem. That's the easy way. That makes enemies, and you end up hurting your own cause. If I just typed everything that popped into my head here, I'd get banned. (believe me!) And then I couldn't do what I do to try to help alpine grow.

[Bordy]

The most satisfaction I get is when a feedback report comes in from a rider and they say they have upped their game and are now doing stuff they could not do before.

Cheers

I don't care so much about the satifaction or I wouldn't be willing to post here and get wipped instead. But some time some seaps through.;)

But I would like everyone to have the chance to ride a board that would let them be the best alpine rider they can be with the most rewards for the least amount of work.

We both know thats what new boards do.

I will as always go down in flames to get the same point across every year!