dingbat Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Let me know when you do, we can compare it to the X5.... I hate you. It's like calling some hot chick after a first date and she tells you she met some other guy and they're getting married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Hey Dave, Email me through Bomber........I have some questions on your graphics. Kenton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebionicman Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Very, very nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 But what is the shorter overall board with the uber sidecut doing for you? The reality is with these metal boards that a longer board is simply not necessary to handle a longer sidecut like 14m. And the Schtubbies have longer effective edge, like a board 5-7cm longer. One big thing is the reduction of sidecut <i>depth</i>. Shallower sidecut makes a board easier to skid and steer, which makes the board good for AM duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Any big differences from the new Coiler AM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloradoking Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 The original concept (from Shred Gruumer) was a short board with a long sidecut. Time was you couldn't get a 15m sidecut on anything shorter than 185...then shred had a beer-induced vision and came up with the revolution that's sweeping the nation. tsk tsk tsk, this was kessler's idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ur13 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 The purpose was several things... one a shorter board can handle crowds on cat tracks at slower speed.But then what do you do when you get up to speed and beyond a normal 161..speed limit.. and go over the handle bars because your tossed into a turn beyond the speed limit.. so make a short board that is very stable at high speeds.. no need to drive the nose or tail... just relax on a 14.7m sidecut.. A longer sidecut feels more sure footed on higher speeds . Also its metal.. so then you have an ultra short board very smooth and just cruising.. It very deceiving though... you go down steep stuff an you want to turn or you think its going to turn like a short board...then it just wants to go fast.. weird feeling but you get used to how fun it really is.. Fun and Easy became the insperation for the Schtubby.. Took the best of a long board and a short board and put them together and you get the X2.. Hope I explained that right.. there are only 2 original X1's schtubbys and are fun as hell !! I think Mike T has the bit longer one at 164... RSS Thanks Shred. Interesting. I'm not totally sold but I see the logic. I'd like to demo one though... Maybe I'll cross paths with someone on one next season. The reality is with these metal boards that a longer board is simply not necessary to handle a longer sidecut like 14m. And the Schtubbies have longer effective edge, like a board 5-7cm longer.One big thing is the reduction of sidecut <i>depth</i>. Shallower sidecut makes a board easier to skid and steer, which makes the board good for AM duty. Why would you want to skid and steer a alpine board? Especially in the AM when everything (theoretically) is hard and groomed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 tsk tsk tsk, this was kessler's idea! Again - you'd have to talk to the man, but I believe the X1 was out a year or two before the Kesslers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Why would you want to skid and steer a alpine board? Especially in the AM when everything (theoretically) is hard and groomed? AM in this context = "All Mountain" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Any big differences from the new Coiler AM? That's a good question. How do you decide between a schtubby and an AM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terryw Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Love your graphics. Bruce just keeps stepping it up. It is exciting to see the continued evolution of our equipment. I really enjoy my metal coiler all mountain, but all of this excitement about the new schtubbies makes me want to try one out. I would be very curious to compare the feel of the schtubby to the all mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloradoking Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 maybe i might be able to clarify... the original concept of this board was made to maximize effective edge without increasing the length of the board, this maximizes stability by increasing the amount of contact you have with the snow while on edge. this also made it so that you could run a shorter board (although we still run 185s in GS) with the same effectiveness as one 5 cm longer. HOWEVER,that does not justify running a shorter board, if you run 2 boards with the same effective edge (Say a 185 normal and a 180 stub-nose) assuming they have the same flex pattern and etc. they would feel about the same. if you decide to just run a 180 instead of a non-flat nose then all you would do was nothing except chop the nose off of the board. if you run the same size board with more effective edge you get more stability and more control while on most any surface which = faster runs. point is: if you have a 185 normal and a 185 stub-nose the stub nose will ride smoother, faster and just overall better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 That's a good question. How do you decide between a schtubby and an AM? Get an AM if you will be riding untracked powder with significant frequency. The Schtubby works well in everything but untracked powder, where it will submarine if you don't lean way back. In cut-up powder or crud it's a dream. I rode mine all day after an 18" dump and had a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ur13 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 AM in this context = "All Mountain" Got it and got it. Now I see the purpose. Makes total sense. Then yes, I approve. Good idea! (as if it mattered. Hahahahah) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 tsk tsk tsk, this was kessler's idea! First I ever saw anything like it was on a Swoard. BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ur13 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 First I ever saw anything like it was on a Swoard.BV Though a Swoard has a whole different purpose, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 maybe i might be able to clarify... the original concept of this board was made to maximize effective edge without increasing the length of the board, this maximizes stability by increasing the amount of contact you have with the snow while on edge. this also made it so that you could run a shorter board (although we still run 185s in GS) with the same effectiveness as one 5 cm longer. HOWEVER,that does not justify running a shorter board, if you run 2 boards with the same effective edge (Say a 185 normal and a 180 stub-nose) assuming they have the same flex pattern and etc. they would feel about the same. if you decide to just run a 180 instead of a non-flat nose then all you would do was nothing except chop the nose off of the board. if you run the same size board with more effective edge you get more stability and more control while on most any surface which = faster runs.point is: if you have a 185 normal and a 185 stub-nose the stub nose will ride smoother, faster and just overall better There are a couple other things going on with the Stubbies that I've seen from Bruce that make them ride significantly different than a board that just has a shortened nose. In my opinion, the most significant trait is the way he de-cambers the nose and sometimes the tail. This lets you take a long board, say 185, shorten the overall length to say 180 or 175 depending on how extreem you go with the nose, have the edge hold and smooth ride like the 185, and transition and skid like a 170. Also the gradual curve of the nose/de-cambered area is what lets them slice through chop and crud so well. It's not a short nose on a traditionaly cambered board that just curls up quick at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Oxygen has had a 160 and 164 with 12 meter sidecuts,and 168 and 172 with 13 meter for at least 11 years.The 168 I had last year was a fun board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloradoking Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 all of the companies using this technology have their own take on it, all of them use a point of rocker very far down the board, if they didnt the boards would just bury the nose as soon as you hit anything softer than hard pack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Oxygen has had a 160 and 164 with 12 meter sidecuts,and 168 and 172 with 13 meter for at least 11 years.The 168 I had last year was a fun board. F2 was similar, they had pretty long radii for the lengths. i.e., the RS173 was 14m. But their noses were traditional and the effective edge lengths were a little shorter than the schtubbies are now. The decambered nose is a big factor of these new board designs. Hmm... the new F2s are even longer in radius.... http://www.f2-snow.com/htdocs/boards-speedster-rs-wc.php?setsub=33&setnav=22 183 = 18m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powdahbonz Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Sent you email-when you get a chance-thanks-powdah First I ever saw anything like it was on a Swoard.BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 That's a good question. How do you decide between a schtubby and an AM? I have both....172AM(21.5cm/12m/148cm edge) and a 173 Stub (20cm/13m/157 edge). The AM has a relaxed flex pattern, is a little more versatile, and requires less effort to ride. The AM is fantastic in all conditions even ice, but is exceptionally better in soft packed powder and chopped pow. The AM feels livelier than the Stub in the soft stuff. The Stub is stiffer, rides longer and is a much faster board. The Stub is much more stable at high speeds and can carve bigger turns b/c of the sidecut and longer running length. Obviously, with the metal it loves ice and hardpack conditions. On super soft snow the board feels a little dead to me. I'm pretty happy I have both boards. Many weekends I'll ride the Stub on Saturdays and then the AM on Sundays when my legs are pretty beat. If I did it over again, I'd probably add a 14m sidecut to the Stub to differentiate the two even more. Yet, I ride mostly narrow trails so I'm quite satisfied with the 13m. It usually keeps me out of the trees. If you only had to choose one, the AM is best in soft snow or if you prefer a softer flex. The Stub is better for harder snow or if you like a more aggressive flex. Either way BV can customize and suit your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Oxygen has had a 160 and 164 with 12 meter sidecuts,and 168 and 172 with 13 meter for at least 11 years.The 168 I had last year was a fun board. Ok while I don't yet have a Schtubby (but I do have one on order for the fall) I do have an O2 F-67 (circa '94). If I get aggressive with it the nose folds like a pair of twos in a poker game. A friend with an O2 Limited 173cm 12m SCR says his "rolls over and plays dead" on the steeps. Both boards are too soft to hold a carve at higher speeds or if handled agressively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loupa5 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I have both....172AM(21.5cm/12m/148cm edge) and a 173 Stub (20cm/13m/157 edge).How would one go about ordering a Stubby, I'm looking to buy a new board. Well I'm debating over buying new vs used. Right now I ride a UP-162 and my stance is set at 21.5", bindings 57F/53R. I had some interest in Jack's 158Madd but after reading the recommended weight, +180 I became reluctant, I'm 185. Then recently was thinking about Geoff's 169Virus thats up for sale now, nice board but there seems to be a trend of good reviews on the Stubb. Those are the comparible used snowboards. Maybe they might be to much for me, I say maybe because I like SPEED. Any advice. I'm looking to make a one time purchase. I need a board that will accommodate the level I'm at and one I can grow into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 How would one go about ordering a Stubby, I'm looking to buy a new board. get in touch with Bruce Varsava - coiler snowboards. I think his email is info - at - coiler - dot - com or you can find him through the forum email if he has it turned on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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