Colorado thoughts...

[Corey]

Good discussion!

That's a major bummer Beth (and all)! I'd like to think that most of the Burton and board length jokes were in jest, but maybe not. :(

I experience a similar issue in trying to grow our local car racing program. 95% of the people there are ecstatic to see new people out and will do almost anything to help them (until they start beating the old 'pros', then the advice stops flowing so freely ;)). But that 5% that is indifferent or discouraging is what sticks in peoples' minds because it can be hurtful.

A friend's wife heard someone mention something stupid at a race about another beginner female participant. Even after Mr. Stupid quit racing it still affected my friend's wife to the point that she avoided racing for 3 years. Last year she regained the courage to try and had a great first season.

Hang in there, forget the bad 5% that you may have interacted with. :D

[newcarver]

I got 2 of my friends that were visiting the other week to start "carving". I was riding hardboots and they were in softies. They started getting the hang of it and were having a blast. Don't forget that you can carve in softies! That is the easiest way to get someone new into it. Once they figure out what's going on while in softies they will get interested in the hard gear.

[John E]

For myself, I really don't care how unpopular this sport is. "Coolness" means nothing to me. However, for the manufacturers to survive we may be below critical mass - especially in this economy.

I try to be an ambassador for the sport. I rode the lifts with a lot of skiers at Snowmass and tried to be as friendly and open as possible. I try to dispell the image that so many softbooters try to cultivate.

I doubt that many other carvers lust after my equipment. Though I don't ride a Burton, I certainly don't look down upon any equipment. As a famous bike rider once said "It's not about the bike (board)".

I'm sorry that anyone felt any discrimination because of their equipment. If there was any attitude, the best revenge is to ride well.

[carverchick]

Ok so when Al and I first went to SES 3 years ago, we didn't know too many people. We also felt a little left out in so many ways, but once we put overselves out there to meet people and to ask others to ride with us, we found everyone was receptive. It's also a great way to pick up a plethora of knowledge on how to become a better rider.

I was extremely intimidated at the first session because I had been on plates for 3 months before going to Aspen and after watching so many carvers ride (let alone female carvers), I was like "I'm just a punkass on a snowboard"! but that didn't stop me from trying to ride better and from getting to know others. Now at year 3, I know so many of the those wonderful carvers and have met many more in the process and it was because I wasn't afraid to approach or to be approached. I still have a lot to learn and will always be open to advice whether it is about my equipment, riding style...whatever.

My advice is to don't be afraid to introduce yourself or to ask people to ride with you. Also coming onto BOL is another great way to cement relationships even before SES or any other session for that matter, it's always good to chime in on a thread with experiences, jokes or whatever else you can think of. I promise we don't bite.....!

[scrapster]

Wow, I'm surprised that anyone would give a female carver such a hard time! I'm always stoked to see women riders of any type (as are many on this board--from the comments I've read.)

But, at the same time, I can relate. Some folks just can't seem to help sizing other people up. If they're doing it to be helpful, that's one thing. Often, however, its to feel superior in one way or another. My guess--its usually an alpha-male, testosterone thing.

Keep your chin up and keep at it. If you can be proud of your progress and your own positive attitude, you're already a notch above any critics you may run into.

[SWriverstone]

Good comments Felicia! (And everyone else.)

I'd only add one small but important point: lots of people say to the newbies, "Just come introduce yourself and ask for help."

Well...can't it just as easily be the other way around? Can't the experienced riders approach a newer rider and say "Hi—my name's ____. Would you like to ride together? I'd be glad to watch you carve and maybe offer some suggestions!"

Point being, it's not necessary for the burden to always be placed on the new carvers. The old carvers should make it a point to reach out to the new ones sometimes. That kind of "proactive friendliness" goes a long way toward generating good will all around!

Scott

[Helmut Karvlow]

Sorry BlueB if I sounded like I was suggesting that carvers--generally--are a "closed" community. I know there are many people across the country who regularly support the sport by helping new people get into it.

I was mainly talking about SES, and as I said earlier, I understand that the intention for SES was probably never to make it an educational/instructional event...but rather a fun gathering of peers---which is totally cool!

maybe if you didn't go off on your own you would have seen how most everyone at the ses left the ego at the door and everyone I know would help out at just a mention of it.

each rider's style is different so a book would be basic at best.

The poo has offered to ride with you I would take him up on it...he was taught well ;)

[carverchick]

I didn't get a hard time, in fact it was the complete opposite. I remember the first year I had the pleasure of riding with Andrea, Steph and Diana whom I still think are total rockstar chicks on boards. That in itself was enough for me to say I want to ride better and more importantly, I want these kinds of people in my social circle.

I was generally speaking from the regards of after riding, we didn't have a lot of options other than the bomber parties to really get to socialize and partly is was because we didn't ask.

I'm a social person by nature (just ask anyone) :P and once I feel comfortable I'm like a social butterfly (however I genuinely take an interest in each person I meet) I'm curious about everyone and what they do, how they do it, etc. and once I know people are receptive to me....Well look out baby!

[Paulk]

Hey guys and gals!

I'm sitting at DIA waiting for my flight home..Reflecting on what a great vacation this was. Reading the comments from Scott kinda bummed me out, then Beth mention how she was treated. Double bummed. It was easier for us as group when only 50 or so showed up to ride..You could meet, ride and remember most everyone. This past session there were people everywhere!! As a result I stuck with a small group of friends who challenge each other daily to ride better. And as with every year, we met a few other riders who were patient enough to deal with our east coast lungs, legs, and style to ride with us most of the day. Not everyone can do that. The Session is different things to different people for sure. For me it is making new friends a handful at a time, and looking forward to seeing them again next year. I've been coming out to Aspen for several years now and my handful of friends keeps growing, a far cry from the 4 people I knew when I first came out in '04. As far as the proactive friendliness goes...some people do it better than others..

Holly and Scott, I hope that you do return next year, there is much to do and learn. Not to mention, friends to be made. This event will grow on you each year...And I'll keep coming until I stop making new friends.

-Paul

[Michelle]

Wow, there's so much info and opinions here I don't know where to start. But being in the center of it I feel I have to comment.

We try our best to have this event be a great event for EVERYONE, not just for the experienced rider. Yes, it's great that they ride and "show off" under the chair, because that's what brings in more people to try it, and grow the sport! The only way that we have been able to put an event such as this on is becuase it's growing, and more people are participating. 99% of the manufacturers are small companies and put in their time, gear, and prizes for the raffle out of their own pockets. Bomber does not make money off of the event.

The reason I bring that up is because as FANTASTIC as it would be to have an instructor each day for each level, it's just not feasible. Sean Cassidy has been gracious enough in the past to come out for 5-6 days, teach a clinic each day, and try to vary it as much as possible FOR FREE. This year unfortunately he could not make it, and the beginners were definitely a bit left out. With that said, the clinics that were given are by experienced instructors, and they know how to deal with a group of different levels. Richard gave an AMAZING women's clinic on Thur to a group of 6 or 7 all at different levels. DEFINITELY join a clinic - you will learn way more than ever expected, no matter what your level. And absolutely no one will make fun of you, or your riding. If they do, just come and get me

We would love to have people volunteer to give clinics throughout the event for lower-level riders. However, there also becomes an issue with liability and insurance, something that sucks in America (don't get me started!). However, we can possibly work something out if a person is willing for events in the future.

Also, I try and send out newbies with an experienced person. If I know it's someone's first attempt, I will grab anyone and say "can you take a few runs with this person just to get them started?" and usually people don't have a problem. If you are a beginner, please tell me DAILY at the demo tent (I have a lot to remember!!!) and I will try and grab someone to ride with you. There are enough people around the demo tent that are willing to take a few runs with someone, AND you might make a new friend. 99% of the people at the SES are incredibly nice, and have become some of my good friends without a doubt.

I'm not being negative against anything anyone has said, just stating the facts from my point of view. It's incredibly hard to remember where I am at any given point much less this person's so/friend/wife/boyfriend/etc is a lower level rider and needs some help. Speak up, and I promise that someone will be there to help. We all want the sport to grow! Felicia said it very well, and she is an outgoing person so it is easier for her, but just by approaching someone (or ask me, and I can do it for you) and asking for a few pointers will get you far. Ride the chair with them, take a few runs, people are really nice.

As for reversing it - most of the experienced riders don't know who the beginning riders are, especially at the demo tent. I have heard many stories about a rider stopping another rider on the hill because they can see they are having problems. It's a matter of getting the right people together.

Specifically, I wish I would have known that Scott and holly were having these thoughts. I would have definitely encouraged Holly to join the women's clinic. Anyone who has seen me ride knows I am not the best rider, but taking these clinics and more time on the hill is a great way to start. I would have also encouraged both of them to join ANY of the clinics, and I could introduce the clinic leader and they could tell them of their "concerns" whether it be level of riding, terrain, etc.

Instructional videos - yes, we've had a lot of inquires. We've had some attempts. Do you know how much it costs to make a video? If anyone out there wants to make one, we'll sell it for you, give it away, whatever you want to do! But it's difficult, and expensive and we just don't have the money.

As for the people making fun of Beth's equipment, shame shame shame. Is she out there? is she riding hard boots? YEAH! KUDOS to her, and positive opinions would go a lot further than negative ones. don't diss on anyone's anything - not only is it not nice but makes carvers...well...feel unapproachable :o and that is exactly the opposite of what we are trying to portray.

We would love suggestions for next year's event. This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff we need to hear! Another thread maybe?? And please don't be put off of the SES because of these events. Holly, Scott, Beth, and anyone else who experienced something like this please PM me, and we'll do our best to make the event a better experience for EVERYONE next year, not just you guys

[Michelle]

Hey guys and gals!

The Session is different things to different people for sure. For me it is making new friends a handful at a time, and looking forward to seeing them again next year.

Holly and Scott, I hope that you do return next year, there is much to do and learn. Not to mention, friends to be made. This event will grow on you each year...And I'll keep coming until I stop making new friends.

-Paul

good comments Paulk. Also double bummed that this kind of stuff happened at the event, and I was oblivious to it all.

[SWriverstone]

Thanks for chiming in Michelle—and just for the record, there are NO sour grapes from either Holly nor I! We both had a blast, and really enjoyed (finally) meeting you and Fin and lots of other people. (We especially enjoyed your graciousness when we showed up at the Bomber house not knowing the house party was cancelled!)

I hope my previous comments haven't stirred up a hornet's nest, because I only meant them in the spirit of "ways to make SES even better" (not "what sucked about SES"). :)

You and Fin work your butts off to put on an awesome (and huge) event, so no apologies necessary on your parts.

As an aside, I know Holly and I would be happy to fork out a few more $$$ to have a serious half-day technique clinic (with a hopefully smallish class size). We realize good instructors have gotta make a living too, so maybe offering paid instruction at future SES events would be an option?

Bottom line: no worries. We are absolutely planning to return next year!

Scott

PS - I hang out on several forums, and I have to say the level of civility demonstrated in threads like this on BOL is unmatched—seriously. (A thread like this would have gone down in flames on some other forums! LOL)

[Michelle]

HA HA It's funny that you think we're civil! Ok, for the most part, but I don't think I've ever heard that here......

I agree, it's comments such as yours that allow us to make the SES even better. I do have a few instructors available that work for the mountain, and maybe we can book ahead their time and everyone can pitch in for the $$ to make it cheaper. That also takes care of the liability issues, because it would be official Aspen.

I didn't see it as sour grapes, and I'm glad you guys want to come back! I think you guys are very nice sociable people, and I'm sure next year you won't have any problems meeting people to ride with.

Keep the comments coming. We haven't read the cards from the banquet yet, and although most people either scribble on them or don't fill them out, we definitely take the thoughts expressed seriously and into consideration. When the new SES is in the planning stages, I always look back at the old SES and see what worked, what didn't, etc. This is one that we will keep in mind for next year.

Thanks Scott, and everyone else for comments! Keep them coming so we can continue to make the event awesome for everyone!

[Steve Prokopiw]

that Van Halen should play at SES 2010.

[Michelle]

that Van Halen should play at SES 2010.

If you guys put up the $$, I'll make it happen :lol: because that's what I do.

[Mike T]

Wish I could have been there!

I can only imagine how much effort Fin and Michelle have to put into SES... Needing time to deal with OES issues is the principle reason why I didn't even plan to attend SES this year, and OES is a measly ~50 person event.

[CarveItUp]

I know the most common thing being written on the cards at our table was that the pens sucked but everything else was awesome!

We had a great time also. I hope what I said is not coming across as negative. I'm trying to show how some minor things can be improved.

I really want the event to be a success and to get more people into the sport.

[alexgforce]

This year I did a clinic that mainly had to do with EC turns. We had a good group that hopefully got a few tips out of it. The reason for showing that particular aspect of carving was my impression that people would be interested in learning it and also taking into account that there would be a beginner clinic running. If I knew that there was a need for a begginer clinic I would gladly do it.

In fact for next year based on what's been written in that thread I can put together a 2 day begginer clinic during SES. One day will be theory in the form of a seminar with drawings, photos, diagrams, explaining the basics of carving and the next day will be on-piste practice.

Of course I am open to any suggestion that anyone may have that will make SES a better begginer experience.

[Steve Prokopiw]

won't handle drawings and diagrams but it will handle fun.It's got to be fun.I'm thinking dancing girls and drinks would be cool but I'm also open to suggestions:)

[alexgforce]

won't handle drawings and diagrams but it will handle fun.It's got to be fun.I'm thinking dancing girls and drinks would be cool but I'm also open to suggestions:)

He, he, would a seminar with me in a wig and a thong make any difference?? or most probably would turn people totaly offfff!!!!

[Steve Prokopiw]

would it be a leopard print thong?

[James Ong]

Good comments Felicia! (And everyone else.)

I'd only add one small but important point: lots of people say to the newbies, "Just come introduce yourself and ask for help."

Well...can't it just as easily be the other way around? Can't the experienced riders approach a newer rider and say "Hi—my name's ____. Would you like to ride together? I'd be glad to watch you carve and maybe offer some suggestions!"

Scott

This was my 5th time at SES and if i had to guess i probably knew only 30% of the people there ( at best)

I would not volunteer out of the blue because it seems presumptuous to instruct someone you don't know .

Introduce yourself and you'll get more information than you want.

[queequeg]

This was my 5th time at SES and if i had to guess i probably knew only 30% of the people there ( at best)

I would not volunteer out of the blue because it seems presumptuous to instruct someone you don't know .

Introduce yourself and you'll get more information than you want.

I agree with James - on sunday at Snowmass I had some dude on softies start telling me I should be riding my board (on the lift no less!) ... kind of an extreme example but I think it is presumptuous to offer unsolicited advice to strangers. I gave some advice once or twice to some people I was riding with but only very cautiously .... "if you think it would help, could I offer you a piece of advice?"

This was my first session and I came alone for it - I found people were more than willing to help out with a bit of advice when requested and found everyone to be super friendly. I'm definitely gonna be back for more next year! I thought everyone was super cool, and it was just so fun to be carving with so many carvers around, at so many different levels, with so many different styles. I'm going through some serious withdrawal now.

[RDY_2_Carve]

This year I did a clinic that mainly had to do with EC turns. We had a good group that hopefully got a few tips out of it. The reason for showing that particular aspect of carving was my impression that people would be interested in learning it and also taking into account that there would be a beginner clinic running. If I knew that there was a need for a begginer clinic I would gladly do it.

In fact for next year based on what's been written in that thread I can put together a 2 day begginer clinic during SES. One day will be theory in the form of a seminar with drawings, photos, diagrams, explaining the basics of carving and the next day will be on-piste practice.

Of course I am open to any suggestion that anyone may have that will make SES a better begginer experience.

Alex: I would say do the "classroom" stuff online so there are no lost days on the hill! Aspen lift tickets are NOT cheap, even at the bomber discounted rate!!! Also I thought the EC clinic was spot on. If it was any more advanced you probably would have snowballed us. I didn't think anybody was much beyond intermidiate level as most of the "experts" can already EC anyways so they skipped the clinic? I know I had never done "double arm on the snow" heelsides before your clinic so :biggthump for your tips! SES was also the FIRST time this season I have rode with any other hardbooter...

The only suggestion I would have for the EC clinic you did was to really get into the basics starting at the board/stance/angles and working your way up to head positioning. It seemed like the clinic focused on upper body positioning via shoulder turn and arms (very important mind you) and didn't go into any detail on lower body movements like push-pull, where your head needs to be (looking uphill), etc.

As far as the SES friendlyness stuff goes I can't really comment because I'm a pretty shy guy anyways...at least until you get a six pack or so in me. I know I didn't feel like I was being shunned by the community or anything?!?!

I think a good idea for next year is to get everybody together for something like the group photo then afterwards ask folks to seperate based on skill level. Have expert/advanced carvers on one side and then beginner/intermidiate on the other side. Then ask people to choose a partner and everybody go with their buddy for a couple runs. I must confess to having a man crush on Mr. Ken from Cali (KJL?) as I aspire to ride as smooth and efficient as he does (Don't worry Ken I won't stalk you). This could promote people meeting each other and give everybody a chance at a "1-on-1 lesson" from other fellow carvers.

Asking a complete stranger to help with my techique seems a bit far fetched...epecially when most of the upper tier riders are so focused on demoing everything under the sun. It's a busy enviornment to say the least and I would feel like I'd be taking away from those people's time @ SES. Not to mention a good handful of the "advanced" riders are probably from the East coast and they are enjoying probably the best conditions for their entire season @ Aspen....so it's a lot to ask.

IMHO just 2-3 tips from Alex gave me plenty to think about during the whole SES to help take my riding to the next level....which I thought actually happened too as I had a couple breakthroughs in my technique! Still a long ways to go though!

[carverchick]

Ears Perk Up! Huh??

would it be a leopard print thong?