SnowieQc Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hi everyone, I've been reading and getting some great informations from many of you since I've found this site and I thought I would expose my case. Maybe it will help me decide, depending on the feedback. I began snowboarding in 1984, but I had my first experience with hardboots / carve board, 1 week ago. I felt in love ! Well, unfortunetly, I was left without assistance or minimal coaching so love didn't came in the first 10 minutes :) ! I struggled a bit, trying to leave the softboots / freeride habits, but the next 3 rides were a blast ! I almost felt more confident in this setup than when using my old Strato freeride friend. I left with two prices, 1 for the setup I tried (lower, since used) and 1 for a retail package (new). And yes, I had to stop myself from doing an impulsive purchase ! Now, here's my questions, if you take into consideration that I'm not looking to race with the board, but only concentrate on good stable carving / EC and try to ride a little longer when the nice groom goes away (doesn't last much around here) : - Would it be best to invest a little more for stiffer boots right away ? 325, 700 ? - Would you go for a longer board right away too ? Even though the learning curve is harder with a longer board, the 174 smiles at me. I tried the 169, I'm 5'11, 155 pounds. - Is there another setup you would recommend in the same price range ? Took a look at the Silberpfeil, nice deck too. But not tried. So that's it ! I've been riding my Rossi Strato 166 with both feet at 45° with 19'' stance for the last few seasons, but even though I'd try to hook some plates / bindings with hardboots onto it, it would not be the same for sure ! This board is not a carver by nature, but with the 45°, it keeps by 12'' boots inside ! So, any feedback from all you guys will be appreciated before I lock myself in with a nice purchase, that even though it served as an introduction, it felt like a strong one ! Thanks in advance, Regards, SnowieQC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie00 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hey Snowy, Welcome aboard ! I'm like you been riding snowboards since the 80's and since I've tried hardbooting 7 years ago I never looked back. My piece of advice would be get a pair of boots that fits and that is comfortable.. 325 or the 700T or even the head boots. Once you got you boots you are set for many years and if you are like most of us you will go through many boards in the next few years.. buy -- sell -- buy -- sell :) it's a never ending story or obsession. As for board definitaly those 12's will need a wider board.. something in the 21.5 cm at waist should be good for you to keep decent angles. You are like me, I'm 6 feet 165 and a most of the stock longer boards I have tried were to stiff for me .. specially. I now own a few boards up to 186 and can ride them very good but they are made for my weight. It's something that you will have to keep in mind when getting a board. You have been snowboarding for a while now so either the 169 or 174 you would probably make it work. I ride at st-sauveur most of the time and sometimes tremblant when my T-66 is good .. I'd be happy to help you get started. e-mail me through bomber if anything. I hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowieQc Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hi Ernie ! Thanks for the tips ! I'll probably go with the 325 for boots then. Didn't see the HEAD ones, but I'll keep an eye opened for these as well. You're also reassuring me with the board lenght. The idea was to be able to ride for a while without regretting getting a longer board right from the start, but like you said, I realize that, like most of you, I'll probably end up with a few boards as time goes by ! I remember back in the days, when St-Sauveur was pretty much the only resort / station that would allow snowboarders in QC (without having to go down to VT)! We would have to get a "certification" to be able to go down one hill only ! Nice souvenirs with my first Burton Elite 150 ! So let's keep in touch ! If I go up your place, I'll send you an email a few days earlier. Always opened for some tips and a good chat ! Take care regards, SnowieQC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie00 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 ya I remeber ! I still have those "liscence" to snowboard somewhere at home... they would ask you every 5 minutes for it.. what a pain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hi, there's some info in the links below that might help you. Also, just know that EC is an expert level technique and you probably won't be doing it this year. Beginner carvers who try this usually end up learning some bad habits like reaching for the snow and bending over at the waist. What boards are you considering? For 5'11", 155, you probably want to stay in the high 160s to start. Donek makes some great entry-level boards that won't break the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowieQc Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thanks for dropping by Jack After reading some more tech articles, I'll probably stay in the high 160 like you mentionned (Prior 169 to be precise). And yes, I was aware that I wouldn't lay down EC this season ! What Donek boards were you referring to Jack ? I've seen that BomberOnline only holds 3 models. Is the Blade 170 medium a considerable choice for a beginner with large feet ? Thanks regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm not looking to race with the board, but only concentrate on good stable carving / EC and try to ride a little longer when the nice groom goes away - Would it be best to invest a little more for stiffer boots right away ? I would suggest to choose the softer boots. Softer is better for future EC goal, and help also when "nice groom goes away" because allow more dampening with your legs ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thanks for dropping by JackAfter reading some more tech articles, I'll probably stay in the high 160 like you mentionned (Prior 169 to be precise). And yes, I was aware that I wouldn't lay down EC this season ! What Donek boards were you referring to Jack ? I've seen that BomberOnline only holds 3 models. Is the Blade 170 medium a considerable choice for a beginner with large feet ? Thanks regards That Blade would be a great choice. Very stable due to its width. Easy to ride, even in powder. Boots: should go for the Track 700 if this brand fits you well. The 325 are somewhat stiffer. I ride the tracks 700 for two seasons now, never had such a comfortable(softish) hardboot. That F2 silberpfeil is less suitable for softer snow (nosedigging) but faster and more nervous than the blade. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thanks for dropping by JackAfter reading some more tech articles, I'll probably stay in the high 160 like you mentionned (Prior 169 to be precise). And yes, I was aware that I wouldn't lay down EC this season ! What Donek boards were you referring to Jack ? I've seen that BomberOnline only holds 3 models. Is the Blade 170 medium a considerable choice for a beginner with large feet ? Thanks regards I was talking about the Pilot series, but that Blade 170m would be a great choice. So would the Prior 169Wide. Go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie00 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Snowie, go to lespac and shearch for snowboard race there is a few options available 2 of them are in Laval close to me. For the price it might be a good option to start. http://www.lespac.com/search/detail.php?PHPSESSID=0b5c3546889759d5b4da038583d83f8d&infst=RK_8199368%3B&cp=0®ion=&num_reg_ori=8&gr=0&majalerte=&a=8199368&o=%2Fsearch%2Findex.php&r=1646&liste_ville=&listcmp=&parindex=0&page=1&total=3&nbrpages=1&visite_recherche=&categorie_titre=&idcookie=85c7baf4410cf6d3e0814b27daefd16a&zc=0&zg=0&priorite=&orderby=distance&mots=snowboard+race&distancemax=0&agemax=0&liste_region=&catgr=C0-&prix_de=0&prix_a=0&annee_de=0&annee_a=0&type=0&etat=0&no_region_de=0&no_region_a=&no_region=&prio= Let me know if you need me to go see the boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Don't be afraid of the longer boards!! I'm roughly the same weight, but only 5'6", and I started off on a 178. Now my default boards run in the mid to high 180's. I think the longer boards are more fun back east due to their longer effective edge and more edge hold. Whichever way you go though, you'll have fun, no doubt. Jim, you're into Priors right? IMHO they ride much shorter than many other boards in similar lengths... 21cm noses... I've ridden the metal 177 and 183. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanZ Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hi, there's some info in the links below that might help you. Also, just know that EC is an expert level technique and you probably won't be doing it this year. Beginner carvers who try this usually end up learning some bad habits like reaching for the snow and bending over at the waist. What boards are you considering? For 5'11", 155, you probably want to stay in the high 160s to start. Donek makes some great entry-level boards that won't break the bank. I'm in the same boat as the OP, only I have not tried it yet. Do people typically just feel out how to EC? Or does it generally have to be taught through reading or showing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowieQc Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hey guys ! Thanks to all of you for your feedback and opinions. I'm still in between 2 or 3 board models, but the decision will be made this week. Getting closer ! Ernie, I took a look at LesPACS, but don't know much about the boards found (Scott strike, Hot Blast), I'll be doin some research on these as well. The price seems good, but how old are these boards ?! I'll ring the guy tomorrow for more details. and thanks for your offer, I'll let you know ! Take care everyone, regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm in the same boat as the OP, only I have not tried it yet.Do people typically just feel out how to EC? Or does it generally have to be taught through reading or showing? Either. Just master the basics first; don't bend over at the waist or reach down for the snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Do people typically just feel out how to EC? Or does it generally have to be taught through reading or showing? This is a good question, one that I am interested in. I’ll preface this post with the fact that there are no facts to follow, only highly biased opinions. Here is a quick stab at an answer to your question. First: What hard boot technique works best for you? I don’t know your background. For a lack of a better way to describe the main two techniques I’ll call them a ‘race based technique’ and a ‘surf based technique.’ If you are not sure which is best for you, your past riding history MAY lead you to a preferred preference; ie- 1) you have a long time ski background, go for the race based technique. 2) You have a long surf or skate background; go for the surf-based technique. If you chose race based, read and follow Jack’s articles on the Bomber site. If you chose surf based, read the articles on the Extremecarving web site. FYI, I come from a long time vert-riding skateboard, half pipe background. For this reason I have been drawn into the rotation based, push-pull technique advocated by Switzerland (EC site) and other countries. I started boarding in 1984 and have been hard booting since 1989. Second: Don’t think of ECing as a different or separate technique. Think of ECing as the exact same technique (for the most part) with parts or aspects of the technique magnified or exaggerated. As soon as you think about reaching for the snow more than the actual carved turn, you will probably start making errors, as Jack said … don’t reach for the snow or bend at the waist. Here is a very simplified example to illustrate this point. Imagine a hypothetical slope that very gradually changes from a green, to a blue and finally black slope. Now imagine an expert rider doing perfectly carved turns that draw a full and complete “C” shaped carve. As the slope got steeper and steeper the rider would get closer and closer to the snow. Eventually the slope would get so steep that the rider would be touching the snow or … ECing. Third: Take the time to really work out the errors in the technique that you prefer. I have found that ECing REALLY magnifies errors in your technique. For the surf based technique this may mean a progression like: 1) Rotation technique 2) Add the flexion and extention of the legs 3) Mastered the advanced Push-Pull (the combination of 1&2) Even if you are not an expert, I wouldn’t hesitate to lay a few turns down each run. It is fun to do and helps a lot in the learning process. Finally, this topic has been the basis for some heated discussions here. I am NOT trying to start one. Don’t take this too seriously as I don’t. Cheers Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie00 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 snowie, yes those 2 boards are close to my house. They are probably 6 years old but if they are in good shape they might be worth the price to start out.. if you have unlimited budget you can buy everything new this year ! I still think finding a pair of boots that fits is the priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Here is a very simplified example to illustrate this point. Imagine a hypothetical slope that very gradually changes from a green, to a blue and finally black slope. Now imagine an expert rider doing perfectly carved turns that draw a full and complete “C” shaped carve. As the slope got steeper and steeper the rider would get closer and closer to the snow. Eventually the slope would get so steep that the rider would be touching the snow or … ECing. Well, race-style/Bomber-style will get you there too. Heck, by the above description I'm an EC-er too! Steep enough and/or fast enough, you will have body parts skimming the snow. (although often I can feel my thigh dragging and my armpit is not.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well, race-style/Bomber-style will get you there too. Heck, by the above description I'm an EC-er too! Steep enough and/or fast enough, you will have body parts skimming the snow. Hehe, yes Jack we will bring you over to the Dark Side! Welcome to the EC club:) (although often I can feel my thigh dragging and my armpit is not.) This is where the subjective debate begins regarding ECing. From my calculations it depends who is defining ECing and how ECing is defined. The armpit vs the hip drag on the backside/heel side turn is one of the main aesthetic differences between the surf (armpit) and race (hip) based technique. It is interesting to me how the race and surf techniques are in opposition, with regards to the timing and placement of the leg bend along with the use or absence of a rotation, but at the same time are very close first cousins with regards to carving in general. Who really cares how ECing is defined. Either way, both are fun and both beat a day at work!! Cheers Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowieQc Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 snowie, yes those 2 boards are close to my house. They are probably 6 years old but if they are in good shape they might be worth the price to start out.. if you have unlimited budget you can buy everything new this year ! I still think finding a pair of boots that fits is the priority. Ernie, Found some more infos on those 2 boards finally. Positive mostly, and for the price he asks, one cannot go wrong. It might not be as smooth as a Prior 4WD or such, but one doesn't know until he clips his two feet on it. The ultimum would be to get them all ! A Prior 4WD169 or a Donek Blade170 and those two ! :) His post was in late december, don't know much about LesPacs but you know if they normally remove the post once the sell is completed ? I just wish the pictures were a bit bigger .. But like I said, I'll give him a call tomorrow. What kind of boots do you ride in Ernie ? Have you owned a few models ? I'm pretty interested in the Deeluxe Track 700. Sharks have my size, and they're pretty comfy. Arnaud suggested to go with the 325 (softer), but I'll decide on site probably. Anyway, getting high just thinking about the fun ahead ! It only has to drop below 0 C and stay that way for the snow to come ! Take care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxlanaudiere Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hey snowie, if you need some bindings I got a set of TD1 I could sell you for 120$. Bought em in december but I have since upgraded to TD3 step-ins. See you soon I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaud Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hi Rob : Imagine a hypothetical slope that very gradually changes from a green, to a blue and finally black slopeThis slope exists :) I know it. As the slope got steeper and steeper the rider would get closer and closer to the snow This is exactly what happens :1luvu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowieQc Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Match found ! thanks MaxLanaudière for your TD1 offer, it was interesting. But I finally abandoned the Strike / Hot Blast idea ... Went all the way for it, and bought the Prior 169 4WD 2009 , F2 Intec titanium steps-in and Deeluxe T 225 (w/ F2 Intec Adapters)(Thanks Arnaud ! I listened to you for the 225 (less stiffer) :)) ! I'm all hyped up my friends ! This freezin rain really has to stop now ! So Thanks to all my new BOL friends who contributed Take care all, regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletProof Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 hey snowie, es-tu sur FaceBook? rajoute si tu veus: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=570051301 The 4WD is good for someone crossing over from the soft-boots, pretty wide, lots of lift for powder days and it still carves. Tried it a few weeks ago at Mont-Blanc, a bit too soft and not as nervous as I would like in edge to edge, then again I've been riding stiff boards for a while. I'm at Sutton next Sunday (Rod Roy buses), would like to find experienced carvers to ride with, I need help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie00 Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Woah Snowie ! talk about good budget ! you are set for a while now. I ride with the equivalent of 700T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowieQc Posted February 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hi BulletProof, I must be one of the few who doesn't use Facebook ... I went for the 4WD, because it was love at second sight :), and in hope that I'll be able to enjoy the board when it gets crowded and the conditions are more difficult, more bumpy, icy and such. It will be a good AM / all-around deck. I'm only starting in hardboots / carving, but I'd be more than willing to meet you at Sutton before the season ends for a tips sharing session . Bromont, Orford and Owl's are also easy possibilities for me. Some carvers at Jay maybe ? been a while there, but damn it was nice 15-20 years ago ! Take care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.