nils Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Following the edge tuning topic, i wanted to share something currently tested in swiss ski WC team, and developped by Jean-Bernard Tschäppät who developped many solutions for edge tuning and whom we work with for the last 5-6 seasons. Its called twin roto concept, and even if its developped using the roto disc system that patented tooltonic, it seems quite interesting ( am going to sharpen all my boards today with it). Since his webpage has not yet translated it in english i'll try my best at it: ( its here: http://tooltonic.ch/twinRotoConcept.asp ) " Goal is to sharpen efficiently with the minimum metal need. Concept is based on microscope observation of edges. It is made possible by the two main qualities of the roto finish system. 1. Time Gain, ( at least 5 times quicker than with a diamond or stone) 2. Optimum sharpness, end of edge wear due to local biting of stone or diamond. How to: ( example explains 88° final angle job) Begin with a slight polishing of the base edge 1. sharpen vertically with 200 diamond rotofinish, 10-15 back and forth movement should be enough. Set lateral angle 1° above desire finished angle ( so here tool should be set to 3° ( 87°)) 2. Remove microscopic edges on base side with 400-800 diamond 3. Polish laterally with 400 diamond. 6 back forth movement are enough. Set angle of tool to 2° ( 88°). for racing add 6 back and forth 800 diamond / stone. Results: A clean and sharp edge, that you can repeat more than 100 times. " Apparently, from the first feedbacks I have, and racers output: it works ! I'll give my feedback in 3 weeks :) Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blitz Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Back to ECS VI :D Work fine as usually with JBT ! Crazy guys !!! Now he is at Val d'Isère world cup to share his tools... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Sorry Nils, I got confused. What does vertically and laterally mean in this context. Also could you please also indicate for each steps if it is the base or the side to be sharpened. Maybe it's just me and my double digit IQ, but I could not figure out.... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blitz Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Istvan, it's easy to understand (U doesn't see JBT last WE ? ;) ) For example, you want tune your board at 90° : 1. tune base edge at 1° 2. tune sidewall with roto-finish 200 at 88° (10 or 15 forth and back) 3. then same thing with roto-finish 400 at 89° (6x max) --> the result angle is 90° with 1° for the base With this technic, no need to use each time the file, but just 2 diamond at different angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Any pics of the tool? Google doesn't show much in English. Efficiency is a good thing - I'd like to know more about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I've been interested in checking out their Ice-Catcher Attachment for quite some time, but there is no US distributor yet. Erik - their site has some photos, if you click on the English flag in the upper right, you get English: http://tooltonic.com/default.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I've been interested in checking out their Ice-Catcher Attachment for quite some time, but there is no US distributor yet. Erik - their site has some photos, if you click on the English flag in the upper right, you get English: http://tooltonic.com/default.asp Thank you, I guess the pics didn't load last time I looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Thanks Blitz, now I undertand the trick. It is in the 2 different side angles applied. Less material to be removed and faster. Just sharpened and waxed 4 boards after the ECS.... it took me more than an hour, but now they are sharp as a samuraj sword... ;-) Ready to hit the slopes again! Kindest ps.: Sure I met Jean-Bernard, even had a chat with him during the dinner - just did not feel like looking at his demo he 5th consequtive year... ;-)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I have been using this technique, and also tried it with normal diamond files to see if those without the roto discs could manage to achieve the same result: answer is yes. Basically for those riders that love to have sharp edges every day, without the hassle, and without wanting to remove steel in order to keep the boards longer, this is really the technique to use !! I was able to resharpen in a few minutes to razor sharpening with just this simple technique! - add an extra degree to your normal griding angle with raw diamond ( 200) - set tool back to normal degree with 400 diamond. The result is basically having the right angle only on 0,2 / 0,3mm height instead of having the whole edge height. The differences are microns since we are talking diamond 400, but its so easy to resharp by resetting with the 200 that you eat just almost no steel. I recommend to anyone this method ! Your feedback would be appreciated too :) Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I have been using this technique, and also tried it with normal diamond files to see if those without the roto discs could manage to achieve the same result: answer is yes.Basically for those riders that love to have sharp edges every day, without the hassle, and without wanting to remove steel in order to keep the boards longer, this is really the technique to use !! I was able to resharpen in a few minutes to razor sharpening with just this simple technique! - add an extra degree to your normal griding angle with raw diamond ( 200) - set tool back to normal degree with 400 diamond. The result is basically having the right angle only on 0,2 / 0,3mm height instead of having the whole edge height. The differences are microns since we are talking diamond 400, but its so easy to resharp by resetting with the 200 that you eat just almost no steel. I recommend to anyone this method ! Your feedback would be appreciated too :) Nils is there a US importer? if you can get a decent price, I will buy one. most other people here I am sure would jump right in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blitz Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 is there a US importer? I don't think so. But you can contact directly Jean-Bernard, he speak well english :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 chatted with the guy ( inventor/distributor)... he basically cannot lower price of the tool because of extremely high construction costs ( all made in small factories in Switzerland) and since he does not want to go to china to be able to keep quality to swiss standards, he is stuck in those price ranges..I guess if someone ( Fin? ) imported a small amount of them for a try, maybe it would find some success there? The technique written above, as tried, works with classic diamond file, no need for the roto tools he developped ( it will just make a cleaner job with longer lasting diamonds). Working with diamond files, do not forget to turn them often in the angle tool so they don't get bitten too fast. N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I had a demo by JB during last ECS and I bought a 200 roto finish (I already had a 400). The technique with two Roto Finish (200 and 400) works good. The result is perfect, you can get every day brand new sharp edges with almost no metal consumption. As Nils says, should also works with diamond files. It is also very fast. And the less time you spend sharpening your edges, the more beers you can have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 How much in USD$? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 the kit is 139chf = 118.20usd kit comes with the 200 diamiond stone and file the 200 diamond stone is 69 chf = 58.68 seperate shipping is undetermined I e'd two weeks ago and haven't heard anything back but am definitly on the hunt for this stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjulezD Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 now they are sharp as a samuraj sword... ;-) Never thought about it before, but there is an obvious linkage with the tool below: small circular hard blades (and not files) mounted on an axis so they can adjust to up to 20° angle on each side of the knive's blade. Keeps knives sharp for long. Definitely a good invention that should fine customers in NA. I'll try out the technique with diamonds next time I tune my boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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