Dr D Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I notice lots of newer members are still on softies. Whether due to finances or lack of conviction I can't say but its certain that if we cultivate the stoke in these people our sport will grow and become more accessable for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Our sport is dieing because our elite gear has priced itself out of the market. If we don't find a way to build a bridge between ourselves and cheap jibber gear we will become extinct when the last guy my age dies. I'm 25... I got into hardbooting at 23. I don't think it's quite dying. There's a few under 30 year old posters here. As for price, uhhh, have you looked at the price of ski gear? I've seen a pair of ski boots run from $600 to $900... That's a decent alpine setup right there. <O:p A full set of ski gear, poles, bindings, boots, and skis can run over $2000 easily. Do you hear skiiers complaining? Hell, even if i were to get a custom titanal board, some brand new UPZs, Deeluxe, or Head boots, and some Cateks or TD2s, i'd probably only make it to around $1800, and that's top of the line.<O:p></O:p> <O:p></O:p> For hardbooting gear, there's bargains to be had. You can get a brand new set of boots for $450 + some snowpros or burton plates for $150, and just throw that on your existing board, or find a used factory prime for $100. That's $700. A softboot setup can easily run over that. Brand new Malamutes $300, Cateks, or a decent set of softboot bindings = $200 or more, and decent freeride/freestyle board = $400+ ($900 for a burton vapor). That's $900 total for a decent softy setup... granted, you can get a cheapo setup for around $400, but you could do the same for a hardboot setup, if you got rid of the brand new boots part. As far as price is concerned, it's a choice... all excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 We are growing again for sure. From 1% of snowboarders to something like 3% thanx in large part to folks like Fin and boards like this. the other points you make are all true but entry level skiing costs about $150 and its available everywhere and you can rent before you buy etc. Most of us have to buy our gear sight unseen and we go through 20 setups before we are happy. Its a lot of hassle if you haven't got a reason other than curiosity. Bottomline we grow if people are willing to try it and finding ways to get more people into carving iw where the interest comes from. they will naturally gravitate to better gear as we all did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Most of us have to buy our gear sight unseen and we go through 20 setups before we are happy. Its a lot of hassle if you haven't got a reason other than curiosity. I think it's curiosity, mostly. While I rode and have some really amazing boards, in reallity, my 1st alpine board still makes kinda ok AM carver, while my 5th board is a very stisfactory carving board. All 5 boards I bought used localy, the 5th one I even tried first... My 3rd set of bindings was really nice, but I've blown them - I guess they don't count, then. I still havn't found the boots that I'm 100% happy with, I don't think they exist yet (for my pupose). I'm glad I had means and opportunity to try all these other boards, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 :lol::lol::lol: once the gear bug bites its all over :lol::lol::lol: I think the gear hoarding is probably a symptom of the same problem. Its hard to find stuff so we keep it in the garage just in case even if we have moved on to better sticks. I guess every sport has its quiver issues but this one has it in spades:eplus2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted November 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I got the Zipfits now. Tried one boot with the original Intuition liner and the other with Zipfit. Lo and behold, the one with Intuition was still way stiffer !?! I guess Zipfits will end up in the hardboots... Speed might be relaced with newly aquired Nyberg Axxess. Same waist width, but bigger radius and more edge to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 :lol::lol::lol:once the gear bug bites its all over :lol::lol::lol: I think the gear hoarding is probably a symptom of the same problem. Its hard to find stuff so we keep it in the garage just in case even if we have moved on to better sticks. I guess every sport has its quiver issues but this one has it in spades:eplus2: Do you golf? Not only do you have a quiver, you have 14 opportunities to acquire, hoard, tinker and spend money. At the start of this golf season, I thought my bag was set but since then, I've changed everything but my driver. Even as the season ends, I can't resist and recently acquired a new wedge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I got the Zipfits now. Tried one boot with the original Intuition liner and the other with Zipfit. Lo and behold, the one with Intuition was still way stiffer !?! I guess Zipfits will end up in the hardboots... The original zipfits were quite sturdy and used silicone of some kind for the form fitting material. My first pair last three years and that was when I was way underemployed, so a good 350 + days. Now they use some type of cork and foam filler and I broke down a pair of those in about 75 days and they totally delammed and pulled apart inside the liner. Very disappointed. I am on my third year on Conformables and I really like them. Very comfy. Super easy breakin of just one day and no wear that I can see after about 160 days. Don't have much else to add to the soft boot conversation, except the carve stoke can be enjoyed by all. Softboot and D are right, we don't need to throw judgement of the tools into the equation. My ankles are too shot to carve as hard as I want in softies, hence my choice. I have no use for jibbers at all as most don't know how to, or choose not to carve. Meaning they are skidders. And skidders should be :AR15firin:AR15firin:AR15firin. Can hardly wait until we have the white mantle of goodness for trenching pleasure for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 skidders only desrve :AR15firin:AR15firinwhen they bulldoze all the fresh snowoff the blackdiamonds, where they do not belong if they don't know how to turn yet!!!! they do make a good "wetbutt slalom" at the top of the lift:lol: If I ever do soft boots again (don't yet feel the need) the flow/catek combo looks like the shiznit:biggthump I can't find that pic, anyone else know where to find it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Do you golf? Not only do you have a quiver, you have 14 opportunities to acquire, hoard, tinker and spend money. At the start of this golf season, I thought my bag was set but since then, I've changed everything but my driver. Even as the season ends, I can't resist and recently acquired a new wedge.yeah I golf badly:lol: I do better if I only take a half a bag so I have mostly resisted the quiver virus in the golf arena. I bought a new driver after hitting it 20% longer and 80 % straighter than any club ever. IT only took me the rest of the season to learn how to hit it badly as well.:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstzephyr Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I bought the full set up last year head/cateks etc. And while I enjoyed it, I found out some funny things about myself. I didn't carve a lot harder on the hardboots, I tended to carve harder after switching back to softies. I also found out the support made me much more comfortable in the air on hardboots. I work as a lifty so it was pretty common for me to be riding either(and skis at times) randomly. I started dragging my hand on the softboots, but had a lot of trouble with the hardboots. I tended to just be hauling ass everywhere. Which was fun but cost me a broken left arm for a half a season(plated/bolted back on). Most of the reason for my crash was I spread myself out too much, and consequently wasn't good at any one thing. My first season I progressed as a snowboarder an amazing amount, last year I didn't really get anywhere. Anyway so this year I'm thinking catek free rides(plus power strap or 3rd) and softies. One setup for everything and concentrate on one thing. I don't have anything against hardboots, but they just don't work very well for me in trees and powder without rediculous speed. I'm 23 by the way, alot of the people I ride with are jibbers as well. hardboots aren't lost on all of the younger crowd, but there are a lot of people that just don't want to do it. Softbootsailer...do you ride buttermilk alot? Your binding setup looks familiar. There is a guy who tends to ride west in the morning that I used to always try to copy his lines on my hardboots. I will probably be copying a version of your bindings this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarder_Ted Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Those would be my Flow-teks! If your email is enabled through this site, I'll send you a picture, along with the updated version. Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstzephyr Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Ted I NEED to see these flowteks and any info you can give me on making them. I love my flows but I want to go to cateks(very impressive with the hardbindings I had last year). My email is zephyr_8ajc@yahoo.com. Thanks edit cancel that its right here- http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=176660&postcount=14 I'd still like to see the updated version though. We will see what I can cook up once I get a hold of some fr2s. Used to be a welder/fabricator once upon a time, but I'm lazy so it will probably still be ugly. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 :biggthumpdrop me a pic as well I am just starting to frankenstein mine:eplus2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarder_Ted Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Well, it looks like folks have found the original post but I'll add the updated version of the binding here for anyone else who may be interested. The problem with this version is the cable length. On the Flow NXT, the cable was too short to work with my Catek base plate so I had to cut it off and build a new one. I fabricated the aluminum eye ends for the cable and crimped them on with the appropriate tool at work (I work in theatre and do rigging for a living). Other than that, it was a pretty simple fit. As I stated in the earlier post, the side pieces are stainless steel. If you are going to modify the OS2's I'd want to take a look at how much lateral force the side pieces on the Cateks can take. Steel will bend but those aluminum parts may want snap first. Just a thought. Anyway, here they are. Post up whatever you all end up with. I'm curious about other versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstzephyr Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I'd like to start with os2s as they are substantially cheaper, but I think they may be too narrow. And catek doesn't seem to want to sell just the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarder_Ted Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Sorry, I misunderstood that you were starting with the Catek Plate binding. I thought you wanted to build on the FR binding. Yeah, I totally get the money thing. I emailed them as well hoping to pick up parts a la carte rather than buy the whole binding -at almost $400- and not use half of it. As for width, I think you may be right in that it's too narrow. Maybe someone here is giving up soft boots and wants to get rid of some bindings? Anyone? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 anybody know where I can find good highbacks? The ones that come on the FR2 are junk. I would rather not buy a whole set of bindings to just get the highbacks. Maybe a good older model that is available cheap would be ok. I looked for drake parts etc online and couldn't find any sources for just parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarder_Ted Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Are you looking for a replacement highback to fit the Cateks? I'm not sure what will fit in there. I know some folks here have swapped them out for stiffer highbacks but I can't remember what. I have a set of unused Burton Mission highbacks I could let go real cheap if it's something you're in the market for. They'd need to be modified to fit but if you're interested, I'll take a look tonight to see what would need to be done to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 My original set has drake podium carbon highbacks and straps. they are great. I just picked up a second set with the stock straps and highbacks. The straps look alright but the highbacks are cheap junk. I guess a mission would be a good choice. I am looking for tall and tough, stiff would be good to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted December 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Ok, so I tried my new N type Switch boots/bindings. Not even on high alpine angles, but on my normal teaching angles - 21/6 on 3800. It sucked! It felt way to flimsy, especially on sidways flex, to the point that I was worried for my ankles. My last year's setup, the X type, felt more solid, by far. I think I'll go back to experimenting with strap bindings. Got some Nideckers 800 and some old Flows. Where are those old Drivers of mine? New boots killed my toes, too. They felt ok in the living room, so I didn't mold them. What a mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 what size and model are they? I might be interested in taking them off your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 Doc, Thanks for the tips! You are a seasoned pro, when it cocmes to this stuff. I'm going to replace the Intuition with ZipFit, I guess that's the stiffest you can get. Instead of velcro/bugee, I'll install a propper ratchet strap. I played before with the Raichlee h/b tongue on my Drivers. Im not quite shelling out big bucks for Catek Freerides, but I scored some Nidecker Carbons 800, so that's another option. Another idea I have i to use N type boots on the X type binding with the top strap added to the highback. N types do not quite enough fwd lean, X type can add that with adjustable highback. It would add a lot of stifness too. If you want stiff liners... go for strolz (Austrian- injected liners)- far stiffer than zip fits and they will stop your foot from rolling laterally as compared to that zip fits that do not have a custom fit front toe area. Because soft bot boards are wider and softer- you need more body flexibility.. going too stiff can be just as bad as using k2 clickers. Inflexible Casts are not designed for snowboarding biomechanics. ________ FERRARI 456 SPECIFICATIONS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 If you want stiff liners... go for strolz (Austrian- injected liners)- far stiffer than zip fits and they will stop your foot from rolling laterally as compared to that zip fits that do not have a custom fit front toe area.Because soft bot boards are wider and softer- you need more body flexibility.. going too stiff can be just as bad as using k2 clickers. Inflexible Casts are not designed for snowboarding biomechanics. the clicker HB model I liked, the regular clickers not as much. what's so wrong with clickers? I had a mess of issues with switch, I could rip turns in them but HATED the feel. Clicker HB on the other hand was only stiff where I wanted it. BTW I like low angles in softboots so this might of been part of why the clickers worked for me. I ride like 20 in the front and 10 or so in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 hinge point or lack thereof- soft boots can suffer from lack of it too. My old malamutes..also were too stiff without hinges... going to the Andy Warhols (A burton Hale with graphics) - and a stiffer boot overall- did not suffer like the malamutes,,,those particular burtons- those have a pseudo stitched hinge cuff... so do the burton SLX.. Was there a model of clicker that had a true hinge point??... if so I am mistaken. I remember the model with the ankle strap ...but that is not a hinge point. Ankles should not be locked on a wide board. ________ ALLERGIES ADVICE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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