Hans Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 As promised some experiences with the new Tracks 700 T on the dry land/carpet. I have installed my custom insoles and the BTSkit with the softest springs. The fit of the boots is perfect, even without baking them in the oven, and with my very high arch I have. They fit better than my former Raichle AF600 with thermo's. The boots are equal too, I even think softer in the forward lean than my former Raichle AF 600 (=Deeluxe Suzuka) with my bodyweight of 84 kgs. I find them too soft for my taste, so I did give the back screw some turnings but I didn't felt that much, they went slightly stiffer but not enough so gonna order some other stiffer springs overhere in the Netherlands. They cost me euro 2.50 each. One other thing, I have changed the chrome parts which are on the black plastic of the front buckles some tighter which is an existing possibility of these boots. I have some tiny calfs so I made an exra hole in the black plastic so I could tighten the upper buckles more. I also installed the Intec heels, the holes in the boots were already made by Deeluxe, you have to push with some strength to get the cables through it!!, but no need to make the holes bigger, just push a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Are you comparing the Track 700's forward flex to a similarly outfitted AF600, or to an AF600 without a BTS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 UGLY! but cool to see buckles! curious about these springs, hans...how do you gauge the stiffness on these in expensive replacements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Are you comparing the Track 700's forward flex to a similarly outfitted AF600, or to an AF600 without a BTS? With exactly the same BTSkit, yellow springs. Otherwise you compare apples with peers we say here. I found my former/older Raichle AF700 much stiffer. I think it's the boots material, softer tongue, and the buckles which are smaller and stand off the boots (the former ratches were lying against the boots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 UGLY!but cool to see buckles! curious about these springs, hans...how do you gauge the stiffness on these in expensive replacements? We have an onlineshop overhere in the Netherlands with all that sh.......... All sorts of Springs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Im sure there are springs here, too, but I remember fin saying that the BTS springs were special in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 With exactly the same BTSkit, yellow springs. Otherwise you compare apples with peers we say here. I found my former/older Raichle AF700 much stiffer. I think it's the boots material, softer tongue, and the buckles which are smaller and stand off the boots (the former ratches were lying against the boots). How does the shall material in the lower part of the boot compare? My understanding was that it was supposed to be the same material as the AF700 and Indy. Are yuou saying the lower shell material is softer as well, or just the tongue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 Im sure there are springs here, too, but I remember fin saying that the BTS springs were special in some way. Will look into it, but its surely worth trying at this little price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 How does the shall material in the lower part of the boot compare? My understanding was that it was supposed to be the same material as the AF700 and Indy. Are yuou saying the lower shell material is softer as well, or just the tongue? Hard to tell. What I can say is that the new boots weigh equal as my former Raichle AF600. Lateral/sideway movement is little. Think the tongue is softer, can't say how this material behaves in the cold. May be Fin can say anything about this, because he had them already last season. Some did test them already in your country through Fin, I think............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 That doesn't sound too good I must say. With the Track 1000 practically unavailable and the 700 softer than an old AF 600 (remember that boots get softer over time as the plastics dry out no matter how good you store them - even if Raichle was the best in keeping performance compared to other companies IMHO) which in my eyes was already a noodle of boot there seems to be even less choice on the market. Can you get harder tongues for the Track 700? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 That doesn't sound too good I must say.With the Track 1000 practically unavailable and the 700 softer than an old AF 600 (remember that boots get softer over time as the plastics dry out no matter how good you store them - even if Raichle was the best in keeping performance compared to other companies IMHO) which in my eyes was already a noodle of boot there seems to be even less choice on the market. Can you get harder tongues for the Track 700? I see it as an advantage that this boot is slighly or even stiff/soft as the AF600/Suzuka. With the BTSKIT you have more possibilities to experiment and adjust the forwardlean. What I mean is, you can't make a stiffer boot softer, but you can make a softer boot stiffer by using stiffer springs. Don't know about the tongues, haven't asked Deeluxe. But with the possibility with different springs I think I don't need that. I think I found the perfect boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Well then, good for you! For the rest then the classification of stiffness is then probabely Track 225 <= Track 700 << Track 325 <=? Track 1000 (depending on the stiffness of the parts as one can order the parts seperately). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Well then, good for you!For the rest then the classification of stiffness is then probabely Track 225 <= Track 700 << Track 325 <=? Track 1000 (depending on the stiffness of the parts as one can order the parts seperately). You're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 I asked the Deeluxe people about their new boots and they told me that the track 700 is the stiffest (apart for the custom made track1000) as it is replacing both the indy and suzuka models. So it would go from less to more stiff: track 225 - track 325 - track 700 - track1000 I posted their answer at http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=15698&page=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 From the experiences made so far NO. The Track 325 at least last year was really stiff, while the AF600/Suzuka and now seemingly the Track 700 have allways been really soft. Less lateral flex yes, however forward flex a lot softer. Also note: Track 700 for wide feet, Track 325 for narrow feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 My local dealer will receive its alpine snowboard equipment in november, then i'll be able to try both models to replace my old boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 That doesn't sound too good I must say.With the Track 1000 practically unavailable and the 700 softer than an old AF 600 (remember that boots get softer over time as the plastics dry out no matter how good you store them - even if Raichle was the best in keeping performance compared to other companies IMHO) which in my eyes was already a noodle of boot there seems to be even less choice on the market. Can you get harder tongues for the Track 700? Just ordered some race tongues from blue tomato for € 9.95. Will give some feeback. Couldn't resist to try for this amount. Indy Race Zungen (tongues) Artikel Nummern: 56530-1000-9080 in der Größen 25 - 27.5 Oder 56531 1000 9080 in den Größen 28 - 31.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Soft tongues is IMHO good news for the BTS users such as myself, it allows us to fine tune the feel of the boots more easily. If the tongue is stiffer than your BTS springs, you've rendered them ineffective. I am concerned about the stiffness of the plastic in the lower portion of the boot. I find that the lower price in my Suzukas deforms all too easily, which I assume has led to the blown out upper/lower piece joints. Fin, yyzcanuck, Michelle... can any of you confirm which plastic is used in the actual lower and upper shell (the two parts other than the tongue) - is it the same as the Suzuka and Track 225, Indy and Track 325, or something else entirely? (Hoping it's the latter, Indy and Track 325). Now might be a good time to check out this article on boot flex from YYZCanuck: http://www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_article06.htm In YYZCanuck's terms, Hans is telling us that the Track 700 offers a lot of ankle flex. My question is, where does the shell stiffness (again in YYZCanucks terms from the article linked to above) come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelsch42 Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Soft tongues is IMHO good news for the BTS users such as myself, it allows us to fine tune the feel of the boots more easily. If the tongue is stiffer than your BTS springs, you've rendered them ineffective. I see the opposite. With a soft tounge you would require a soft BTS, else your tounge would be the only thing that would flex. With a stiff tounge all the transfer of force would be through the BTS. If the tounge is not flexing, the BTS is. Either with soft springs or hard springs. Something else to think about: Remember how the deelux-hardboot site dosen't rank the stiffness as a quantative number for the flex of the 700 as they do for the 325 and 225. twelsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 get your pre orders in here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 How can u tune a BTS or any spring system that is simple to set, with on the opposite side a boot that is soft and changing stiffness with outside temps...?? I think the raichle/Deeluxe have design flaws since they first came out years ago because the flex relies on the plastic bending instead of an axle around ankle managed by a spring in the back ( which northwave understood)...now we are all trying to tune fine made BTS with something that is never constant on the other parts of the system...its crazy... When will Deeluxe think of designing a new boot from scratch without reusing its molds over and over and making the price increase each time...We have been telling them this for the last 5-6 years but they keep making new graphics as answers...Grrrrrr...for now there is not much choice but damn... Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 How can u tune a BTS or any spring system that is simple to set, with on the opposite side a boot that is soft and changing stiffness with outside temps...??I think the raichle/Deeluxe have design flaws since they first came out years ago because the flex relies on the plastic bending instead of an axle around ankle managed by a spring in the back ( which northwave understood)...now we are all trying to tune fine made BTS with something that is never constant on the other parts of the system...its crazy... When will Deeluxe think of designing a new boot from scratch without reusing its molds over and over and making the price increase each time...We have been telling them this for the last 5-6 years but they keep making new graphics as answers...Grrrrrr...for now there is not much choice but damn... Nils I totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 ...ankle managed by a spring in the back ( which northwave understood)... Nils, can you give me (us?) some insight on how the Northwave manages ankle flex without being influenced by the tongue of the boot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 ...can any of you confirm which plastic is used in the actual lower and upper shell (the two parts other than the tongue) Go here for the latest comparison chart. The lower shell material of the Track 700 is the same as the Track 325. I will try to confirm cuff and tongue materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 from my experience with the .900 ( the .950 the schoch brother use is even stiffer)... the northwave is simply a very stiff shell, with a loose axis that is right at the ankle axis ( i think the deeluxe axle is NOT right at the axis or is it?)... the boot without the spring system installed can almost fall appart... The northwave spring system ( which is the mother of all BTS :) ) is simply holding the stiff upper part of the boot to the stiff bottom part... The plastic of the tongue is the only bendable part and it acts like a bumper, but if the spring is well modified (more progressive) the tongue is almost useless. The whole spring system makes the boot work, and does not rely on bending plastics which cannot be controlled because of temperature changes. The rest of the boot is cheap: plastic is cheap and gets very hard with cold, buckles on the 900 are full plastic, cables are weak etc...but at the time the boot was sold it was half the price of the 125 almost.... and for the price it was a real bargain...I'm sure all the pros that had .950 bought a full stock of spair boots for the rest of their careers so they would not be left naked...but at the same time i'm not sure in racing its that important to benefit from a spring system as much as in freecarving... I'm sure a injected liner within a Deeluxe makes a good race boot, because there is people out there winning races with those setups.... We can ask the same question about bindings and why racers dont use so much bombers or cateks when they are so reliable....Its a mystery to me still because I wouldnt dare to race without ti bails at least 6mm thick ! Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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