DEELUXE Track 700 T Update

[yyzcanuck]

Sorry about the slow response but here's some more info…

• For the 2007-2008 season, the Track 700 & 325 have the same lower shell material, while the 225 has a material that has a lower elasticity modulus (or is it flexural modulus or is it tensile modulus?). Regardless, the material’s lower modulus value is selected to allow a softer, more flexible feel for the 225.

• The Track 700, 325 & 225 all share the same cuff material, which is the same material as the 225 lower shell.

• The Track 700 & 325 share the same tongue material and this material has a higher elasticity modulus than the 225's tongue.

So, in theory, this should create a stiffness hierarchy where the Track 700 is king, Track 325 is nobleman and Track 225 is a mere peon!

However, after some very un-scientific testing in our shop, it appears the Track 700 and 325 are VERY SIMILAR in forward flex in both locked and unlocked mode. In fact, I found it difficult to determine any difference in feel between the two, with respect to forward flex.

What's the reason? The possible cause of this may be changes in material properties due to batch variability (from the plastic manufacturer), variability in plastic pre-conditioning (drying, storage conditions at the injection molders) or maybe the injection molding process itself (process temperatures).

What’s the solution? I’d say that if you’re looking to stiffen up the forward flex of your Track 700 then go the route that Hans took… buy some race tongues.

[yyzcanuck]

...the northwave is simply a very stiff shell, with a loose axis that is right at the ankle axis ( i think the deeluxe axle is NOT right at the axis or is it?)...

Agreed, the DeeLuxe ankle pivot is located much higher than the Northwave. It is possible to adjust the rider's foot position within the shell (using lifts) to position the ankle joint closer to the boot's pivot.

...the tongue is the only bendable part and it acts like a bumper, but if the spring is well modified (more progressive) the tongue is almost useless. The whole spring system makes the boot work, and does not rely on bending plastics which cannot be controlled because of temperature changes...

Understood. It depends solely on the proper setup of the spring (preload and rate) to ensure the tongue has minimal or better yet, NO influence. For most riders this just isn't practical in my opinion. I'm lazy... give me a boot that I can slip my foot into and ride. I modify my riding to accept the equipment limitations.

[Mike T]

My Track 700's arrived yesterday. First impressions from carpet surfing: I agree with Hans and others who say that there is less lateral flex than the Suzuka/Af600 but more forward flex. The tongues indeed feel softer. The lower part of the shell distorts less than the Suzukas.

The liners are a definite upgrade from my Suzuka liners, which had the neoprene toe area. I go for a performance bit with my boots... I need the toe area to pack out. It is nice to have that back again.

I personally can't wait to ride in them. I complained last year about how the soft lower shell in the Suzuka led to the shell warping, hinge parts breaking, and achy feet. My BTS kit with blue springs will definitely limit the forward flex more so than the tongue. The buckles will be a lot easier to deal with when there is ice and snow caked up on the boots.

I'm getting the liners fit Friday but plan to wait till my new BTS kit comes in before riding on them - I'll use my old Suzukas till then. I'll post a ride report once I've ridden on them.

[Pow]

The buckles will be a lot easier to deal with when there is ice and snow caked up on the boots.

Deal with? Those thermoflex are so comfy (once molded and with arch support orthopedic footbed) that the only time i ever have to deal with the buckles is putting them on at the start of the day and taking them off after dinner:biggthump

[Guest GQuentin]

Santa has come to town early this year. I just received my 700's too. Mike are you going to you use the intec system? Are there any tricks with the installation? Do you have any recommendations on orthotics or the BTS system? God.... I can't wait to get out on a mountain!!!!!

[Mike T]

Deal with? Those thermoflex are so comfy (once molded and with arch support orthopedic footbed) that the only time i ever have to deal with the buckles is putting them on at the start of the day and taking them off after dinner:biggthump

Two problems with the zipties on days right around freezing: Either they are frozen shut and damn near impossible to get off, or ioce freezes on them in such a way where the zipties slip and I have to go in, melt the ice, and then tighten. Buckles should solve both problems!

[Mike T]

Santa has come to town early this year. I just received my 700's too. Mike are you going to you use the intec system? Are there any tricks with the installation? Do you have any recommendations on orthotics or the BTS system? God.... I can't wait to get out on a mountain!!!!!

Intec system: Check. Been using it for several years now, love it. Installation is a piece of cake, just make sure to tighten the screws enough. See the Carver's Almanac, search for PoziDriv on this page.

http://www.alpinecarving.com/tuning.html

You *can* get PoziDriv screwdrivers at http://www.wihatools.com/300seri/313serie.htm

Orthotics: I've got f'ed up feet and went custom, www.footform.com here in Bend. It helps to have insurance that covers orthotics. If your feet are more normal, You can do Dr Scholls, Superfeet, or Downunders. The Downunders provide the best support, the Superfeet have some give to them which is desirable comfort-wise.

BTS: Just do it, I use all blue springs at 190 pounds. My wife is 130 pounds and uses all yellow springs, she's morte of a softbootere who hardboots occasionally and she notuiced the difference right away. I am personally a firm believer in ankles that hing while carving, and the BTS gives a nice controlled range that is somewhere betwwen locked-in and walk mode.

[spil]

BTS: Just do it, I use all blue springs at 190 pounds. My wife is 130 pounds and uses all yellow springs, she's morte of a softbootere who hardboots occasionally and she notuiced the difference right away. I am personally a firm believer in ankles that hing while carving, and the BTS gives a nice controlled range that is somewhere betwwen locked-in and walk mode.

I have also considered getting a BTS, but am not sure yet. I am not sensitive at all. I know there are some people that can't tell a difference between the hard and soft e-rings on td2's, but I couldn't even tell a difference between having an F2 S-flex plate and not having one (besides being higher up). I just don't want to do buy a BTS if I can't tell the difference. I wonder if it would be possible to demo them at bomber? I will be going up to Colorado for Christmas...

I weigh about 130-5, so I'm guessing that if I did decide to get them, I would get them with yellow springs?

[fin]

Spil,

I think we can work something out on demoing some BTS while you are in town. Drop us a line just before you come by and we'll get it set-up.

[Hans]

Tried them 3 hours in a snowhall today in Germany (www.allrounder.de).

Setup: Stiff Coiler 180 RC II, TD2 SI yellow with suspension kit, Track 700 T BTSkit with yellow springs and green(long)-yellow combo. Green is comparable with the blue bomber spring. I weigh 83 kgs (yes a downgraded my weight some this season) and have a not so aggressive ridingstyle.

Snowhall was -4,2 degrees Celsius, piste is comparable to blue piste. But not as steep as a true mountain in the Alps. Piste was well prepared, firm artificial snow, no icey patches.

First the green-yellow setup. Firm, dynamic flex.

Second yellow-yellow setup. Liked them even better. Some more flex, not too soft in contradiction with the test on the carpet when I found the boots too soft (forward flex). Less dynamic as the green setup, but more flexible and love the flexcontrol more. You can hold the boots better in a certain angle with long turns without pushing too much, that I like about this softer setup.

Like the soft material of the boot, fitted perfectly with custom insoles.

You don't have to push the boots too hard to get them elsewhere. Especially your backleg. I have a very high arch and medium wide flat forefeet. Had no problems with my forefeet which are normally too wide for the boots. I always have to go to a bootfitter with Raichle/Deeluxe to punch them out. I don't think I am gonna bake my Thermo's. No needed, they fit well enough.

But always try the boots yourselves. If Raichle/Deeluxe Indy's or Suzuka's fits you good, certainly you get better fitted boots with these ones. At least that's counting for me.

I had no problems with the buckles. When I did go deeply in my knees, the buckles were overlapping, the 3th buckle nearly touched the tongue sometimes, but did not touch the 2nd buckle. No pain whatsoever in my feet.

Anxious to experience how these boots will hold in the steeps, I encounter no probs here, I think. Will wait and see.

[Guest GQuentin]

Thanks for the info on the BTS guys.

I am 6'1 and about 160#

My current setup is the axxess 172 w/ Olympic core, TD2 SI, and the 700T's.

I have only been snowboarding a couple of times in the last 10 years, and this will be my first winter on hard plates. I used to be a pretty aggressive rider back in the day though.

Having said this, should I go yellow/yellow springs? Hans, from what you said this sounds about right for me. Also riding the Axxess; an all mountain board, the softer springs would seem to work well in the pow and backcountry. I will probably stay mostly on the carpet though, being my 1st year back in a while. What do you guys think?

[Hans]

Go with the yellow spring setup in that soft slush.