Soft Boot Carving

[Skully]

So what are your suggestions for good softie setups for carving?

Still the Salomon boots (F-boot and malamutes?) and the salomon binders?

What about boards? Volkl? Tanker?...

ALso, someone mentioned something about hating laces (lacebooters.) There are lots of options out ther in softboots that do not involve tying laces anymore - the salomon's are a good example, the quick-lace system, or whatever you call it. Pull on the handle, it locks and you're good to go, no tying involved, you can tighten them as tight as you want, or leave them as loose as you want. Vans has licensed the boa system also, so there's a lot of options there too, no laces to tie.

[willywhit]

I've been watching this post for the last few days and wasn't going to hop in. but I guess I will..

As long as you aren't racing.. just talking freecarving... if you know the proper techniques on carving, it doesn't matter what you ride. I've been carving on softies for years now... I haven't ridden plates for 5 years now... NO NEED!!!

Stop all this stupid debating and spend your time on the hill having fun... Carving, Jibbing, Hucking or what ever brings a smile to your faces...

P.S. The great Gilmour looks just like I do on Softies...

I like beer.

Does anyone else like beer?

I carve on Hard,

I carve on Med,

I carve on soft,

I carve on skis,

I carve on ski boards,

I carve on teleboard,

I carve on tele skis,

I carve on skwal,

I carve on sit ski,

I carve on Turkey.

[ike]

3 cheers for softboot carvers!!!

*actually the only reason im getting into soft boot carving is due to $$$

[timinor]

If you go to the USASA Nationals, you'll see lots of kids on soft boots carving up a storm in the GS and SL events. I saw an 18 yr old kid on his soft setup and baggy clothes stay turn for turn in the Parallel format against his apponent who was on hard boots, a racing board and wearing a GS suit. The kid could carve...he ripped.

[ike]

i didnt know there was enogh kid carvers to even have a contest

[kathy brower]

http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventorder?photo=Y87F0HYT000028&start=0&album=0&adjust=-1&d=0&pphoto=Y87F0HYT000027

Above is link to me riding at Killington last Thursday

Rode an even softer board today in the rain at Sunapee - snow was awesome although disappearing rapidly - had to quit when I got soaked

Softies work best for me when the snow is slushy and lumpy - although I agree not the same G's you can pull on a firm cord day in hard boots

[jtslalom]

DOUG M,

You're a good man. I sold all my hard equipment in the beginning of this year and now am riding a Ride Timeless 168 on soft Burton bindings. I made the switch last year after hard riding since 1992. I always believed that if you can carve well, you can do it on ANYTHING, including soft boots. I don't think it can be done as well on soft boots but almost as well. Racing is out of the question but just carving is fine. Come up to mountain Creek in Vernon some time and post on the NY, NJ, PA forum (provided we ever get some cold weather to make snow) and we'll make some good turns together on soft boots. I am happy that some people can enjoy carving deep turns on soft boots besides me, especially ones that are relatively local.

[Dr D]

I carve extremely well on my "soft setup". ITs not really a soft set up though. ITs an alpine setup with soft boots and bindings. I ride an all mountain designed board with a forward stance. IE my toes are at the edge of the board and my heels are the same. This seems to be more critical than with hard boots as far as edge control goes. so rather than setting a specific angle I would fit my stance to the board. ITs around 45/40ish. I also ride a cant plate on the rear foot on occassion with mixed results.

The point is that there are possibilities out there that need to be explored. I know that there are boots out there that won't kill my feet after 4 hrs but I haven't found them yet. Until they make boots for those of us that have really extreme width on our dogs, I will be half daying it 1/2 hard and 1/2 soft.

Bonus is the new set of legs that comes from using completely different muscles to accomplish the task. AS long as the wax wears off the lateral 3/4 of an inch of the board and not the middle I am happy.

[Rob Stevens]

I posted a thread awhile back, asking if anyone could lay out EC style heelside turns with a ducked stance (mine is 30 and -3).

Kjl sent me the photo of Vin Q in this old thread, but his angles were forward, reducing, or eliminating altogether, his heeldrag.

Can anyone out there do it in a stance like the one I'm describing? I will not rotate the back foot past zero. It's important to me to maintain the duck.

Carving toeside EC is no problem, but that's a whole different matter... If I could get my heelsides down, in the full F/S, F/R stance angles, I could do the body-drag-speed-brake and always carve the groomers, no matter how steep.

[Neil Gendzwill]

It's important to me to maintain the duck.

Why is it so important?

[Rob Stevens]

Suspension travel in my legs.

I find I can squat landings much lower, thereby landing bigger drops, with my back foot past 0, into the -'s.

It's like squatting weights... Try pointing your feet in the same direction and squatting. Now, try it with a bit of "splay" (I learned this word from you, Neil). In my case, at least, I can get lower.

I realize I could have splay AND forward angles, but it is much easier to wind up over the tail in a compressed situation with forward angles. I find it easier to stay between the bindings for better pressure control in a duck stance and switch is better, of course.

I just can't EC heelside...

I should probably try hardboots and plates, with the same angles I run in softs, on my freeride board. This way, I could get rid of the overhang enough to see if it's possible in the sideways stance I have.

Once again, I'm sure there is a setup that won't have overhang at these angles, I'm just wondering if anyone out there has already mastered the turn?

[Neil Gendzwill]

I see, the squat analogy helps. However landing the big drops is not so important for me. I've never been too comfy in the air. You OTOH probably have to teach this stuff.

I speculate that getting that EC heelside on a duck softie stance is going to be tough - even if you get no overhang on the boots, the heel loop might do you in when you're totally laid over. I know the drink-n-drive lever on my Raichles used to hit the snow in soft conditions until I made some stance adjustments.

However if you really want to give it a go, Donek makes the Sasquatch, which is a 28 cm wide freeride that is verging on raceboard stiff. Alternately, I saw a kid at the local hill rocking -30/+30. That would probably do 'er.

[Dr D]

lift plates will buy you a little space but unless the board is a real fatty I think its a tall order. Have you really tried a forward stance with maybe a little wider than usual spread? You are going to have to find a way to get to 0 overhang somehow. the wider stance might buy you some clearance as well by getting you into a wider part of the board. WE WIll want to hear how it goes.

[kjl]

I should probably try hardboots and plates, with the same angles I run in softs, on my freeride board. This way, I could get rid of the overhang enough to see if it's possible in the sideways stance I have.

In my opinion, hardboots + flat angles is really awkward because you have no side-side flexibility in your boots, meaning no quick nose->tail weight shifts from the ankle, only big lever weight shifts from the waist.

Once again, I'm sure there is a setup that won't have overhang at these angles, I'm just wondering if anyone out there has already mastered the turn?

I know that you know way more than me about carving (thanks for the heelside help), but it seems to me that low angles make it extremely difficult to carve heelside. Bending the knees puts pressure on the fronts of the boots, which, in a flat stance, drive the toe edge down. The only way I found to put pressure on the back of the boot (heel edge) reasonably in a flat stance is to straight-leg it and bend over at the waist: a very, very ugly position which really sucks ass in anything other than pristine groom.

[Neil Gendzwill]

In my opinion, hardboots + flat angles is really awkward because you have no side-side flexibility in your boots, meaning no quick nose->tail weight shifts from the ankle, only big lever weight shifts from the waist.

What are you running for boots? I have a fair old bit of side to side flexibility, but my old 224s are pretty soft as hard boots go.

[Pow]

I can carve very well on my softies and longboard combination, way better than any other softboot rider i see on the mountains, but i can carve so much harder and get so much lower on an alpine setup. Basically i use both now, i ride the alpine until im tired and conditions get sketchy, then i ride the longboard for the rest of the day.

[snowboardfast]

The main reason I stopped riding soft boots is foot pain. In hard boots I am very comfortable all day. Soft boots my feet hurt all the time when I am riding. I rode new year's day in soft boots this year for about 2 hours and the bottom of my feet hurt bad even with custom insoles and a good quality pair of boots. I was riding eaiser and not trying to overdrive the equipment and was able to carve well but my feet hurt too much. I have been riding for 28 years and can ride almost any setup and have fun. I don't know how to overcome this problem- my solution is to ride hard boots. I would agree that you can carve well in soft but you can also ride all mountain in hard boots with the right board. Soft boot riding allows you to use 1 board for everthing and is cheaper equipment wise. I enjoy riding different boards and am lucky enought to afford to have several to ride. I think that The soft stuff available now is very good. I think that part of the reason that people do'nt want to ride hard boots is most hard boot riding that they see is on groomed snow only and not all over the mountain. This gives them the impression that hard boots are only good for one thing. I like to ride all over the place and enjoy riding my Dupraz with hard boots everywhere. I am not putting anyone down- ride what you like to ride and have fun. I enjoy snowboarding with anyone who likes to ride whether they ride plates or not.

[Mallard_with_a_Gun]

I posted a thread awhile back, asking if anyone could lay out EC style heelside turns with a ducked stance (mine is 30 and -3).

Can anyone out there do it in a stance like the one I'm describing? I will not rotate the back foot past zero. It's important to me to maintain the duck.

Dude, revive your old thread, there is too much pointless glurp in this one.

I am working HARD(two 12 hr days last weekend, 10 days so far this season) on this for the simple reason that I have no choice in the matter. I've a left ankle that is mostly hashbrowns and old razor blades, and a right knee with nothing but sand and gravel in it. I HAVE to ride duck foot or not ride at all.

I've found that riding seriously weight forward(front foot) when beginning the heel side turn and transitioning into the dreaded passing a pine cone stance after the nose is good and dug in works passing well, but I skid out alot If I don't cantilever the carving edge perfectly, and I just can't figure what it is that I'm doing differently to the board vs. the toeside. Maybe its the board itself, I simply don't know, I'm seriously considering purchasing a all-mountain carver to see if it helps.

I'm currently using Vans BFB with Drake matrix bindings. The Vans are THE most comfortable thing I've ever worn. In any kind of hard boot after 30 mins on the mountain it feels like someone is injecting boiling acid into my ankle.

I don't pretend to be knowledgable about carving or snowboarding, or much of anything else for that matter, so if any of you feel like bashing me for the way I ride or not knowing the proper terminology or jargon, save your time. I simply don't care.

As far as this thread goes, who gives a good damn what you ride or how you ride it, just as long as you ride. Though I imagine that all of us most likely have at least one thing in common, a skidded turn just flat pisses me off.

[philfell]

Boostertwo,

Why would you sacrifice all mountain and freestyle performance using hardboots? Earlier I gave the example of the freestyle skiers using hardboots to do all their tricks and maneuvers. Some tricks might be harder to do with hardboots, but they are still possible. It just takes more work and talent. The rider that can do everything using hardboots (tricks and carving) would be the better rider because of the degree of difficulty mastered combined with the superior performing equipment.

Will freestyle skiers start using softboots in the future?

Tim

You answered you own question, it takes more work and talent to do the same freestyle stuff in hard boots. Soft boots make riding pow easier and more enjoyable, if hard boots were better for freestyle beleive me Ross Powers would be riding hard boots (trust me he could put hard boots on right now and out ride everyone here, myself included). You shouldn't compare freestyle sking to snowboarding, they are different sports.

To get back to the OP, yeah with todays equipment you can rail some amazing turns in a soft boot set-up. Watch Seth Wescott, Graham Watanabe, or Jayson Hale race SBX. Those guys came from a hardboot background and it shows when they ride softies. But hardboots still out perform softies at carving. These days I spend a fair amount riding on skies, hard boots and soft boots. Skies outperform at high speed and on ice, hard boot rule it for g's and carving hero snow, softies come out on pow days.

[bobdea]

softies have gotten so much better in the last five years not in the sense of whats possible on them but how much easier it is to rail on them without having a overly stiff or restricting softboot setup.

I was carving much stronger on my tanker on a couple of my outing than I have been on my coilers, this is a new thing with me considering I just started to ride softies again. the boards are a little better but softboots and bindings have come a long way in recent years.

[kjl]

What are you running for boots? I have a fair old bit of side to side flexibility, but my old 224s are pretty soft as hard boots go.

423s and now the new 325Ts. I think the softest hard boot would still be too hard for the side-to-side ankle flexibility (nose->tail) that I am used to in soft boots, but that's probably because I started on softboots...

...but I skid out alot If I don't cantilever the carving edge perfectly, and I just can't figure what it is that I'm doing differently to the board vs. the toeside.

It's not you; it's your body. If you stand on a snowboard sideways and bend your knees, the toe edge goes down. Thrust the pelvis forwards a little and you've got more toeside angulation than you could possibly use. Bend your knees and shove your pelvis back like you're sitting on the toilet as far as possible and you have just the bare minimum amount of angulation to hold the heelside edge in, barring any bumps in the snow.

Of course, occasionally you see a softbooter railing carves (some of them probably on this very forum), so it must be possible to do with some magic. It's just that the mechanics of your body are heavily biased towards making the toeside turn easier at flat angles.