Lawsuit: 14 million dollars awarded

[LeeW]

Kenny Salvini -- he broke his back and is paralyzed neck down.

http://www.denverpost.com/outdoors/ci_5682314

I personally think a person should be accountable for his/her own action, not the ski resort. Ever heard of "Pre-run" the kickers?

[NateW]

Any way you look at it, it's depressing. This happened at the hill where I do most of my riding, so I've been keeping an eye on the story. The verdict is being appealed (no surprise) so it's not over yet.

Some more info:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003655847_skijumpaward07m.html

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1221880&postcount=160

http://www.komotv.com/news/6918867.html

[LeeW]

Yeah, I know that place, too. Ive only been to Alpenthal (which I really like very much) once when I worked at Mervin MFG (Lib Tech/Gnu) in Seattle. Pretty intriguing place, tho I have much preference to Steven's Pass and Mt Baker. I long to check out Mission Ridge, too.

Well, as for this dude, I feel sorry and all for him and do commend him for his upbeat attitude. However, the lawsuit, it just doesnt make sense. Im opposed to this type of lawsuit.

Washington state should have revised their statue to include extreme terrains (like mt baker, hello?) and terrain park. Last I hear, it hasn't been revised as Colorado has been (2004's the last time it was revised).

Terrain Park, Im completely dumbfounded when the "engineers" professor say its improperly designed. How would they know in the first place? its made of snow, for pete's sake!!! Snow and temperature has an infinite variable that will make things a bit different on daily basis. However, from my experience of working in the Terrain Park, I honestly dont know how the staff at Summit actually did the "Risk/Safety" assessments. We did pretty good job at my local mountain. Too bad, we sorta shut down our terrain park's kickers. Dunno if Breckenridge has torn down theirs, yet.

Yeah, I know its totally unrelated to hardboot carving, but this kind of lawsuit could have ripple effect to all skiing/snowboard activities. And Im gravely concerned about this.

EDIT: Thanks for the heads up on teton gravity forum. Good stuffs there.

[D-Sub]

just another example of how :barf:this country is.

[Steve Prokopiw]

This is a similar "sue for our own screwups" scenario as the lawsuit against Derby Cycle ,a former distributor of Raleigh bikes back in the early 90s. The successful suit for 7,000,000.00 was because the 16 year old who was hit by a car at night did not know he should use a light to ride at night.The bike had all government required reflectors ,but the manual included with the bike did not say that a light should be used at night and so the distributor and the bike shop, not the government that made the regulations to which the bike shop adhered,got their pants sued right off.

[D-Sub]

sounds like someone suing a binding company for a heel failure on a part they dont even manufacture!

[trailertrash]

how come in any of those media articles it doesnt mention he should have pre-run the jump?

thats odd. if you read the guys blog he doesnt want to hear from you if you disagree with him.

[Gecko]

the fact that we have more lawyers than than engineers in this country rears its ugly head.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'm torn. On the one hand, I do think the resort was negligent. On the other, all that crap in the park is dangerous. Rails give me the willies, one slip on those and you could be just as screwed. So any time you're in there, you're taking a big risk.

I note the jury found the kid over 50% responsible and adjusted damages accordingly.

[NateW]

Yeah, I know that place, too. Ive only been to Alpenthal (which I really like very much) once when I worked at Mervin MFG (Lib Tech/Gnu) in Seattle. Pretty intriguing place, tho I have much preference to Steven's Pass and Mt Baker. I long to check out Mission Ridge, too.

[...]

However, from my experience of working in the Terrain Park, I honestly dont know how the staff at Summit actually did the "Risk/Safety" assessments.

Apparently they had a bunch of injuries they had off the same jump prior to this guy's bad fall, but without comparative data for other jumps and other locations it's impossible to draw conclusions from that.

I've long suspected that the people who shape the jumps at Central are not riders themselves. They seem to just pile up snow until it looks right... Half the jumps are (IMO) unsafe half the time. There's always a good jump or three, but most days theres also jumps that nobody touches for one reason or another. When there's two jumps in a row, it's normal to struggle to avoid undershooting one, and struggle to avoid overshooting the other. Stevens does a much better job of sizing the jumps and landings IMO. If I lived closer, I'd ride there every time.

But still, I don't think the resort (or their insurer) deserves to lose $14M over this. I feel really sorry for the guy, but IMO the resort deserves only a slap on the wrist - a penalty of thousands maybe, but not millions. I feel terrible for the guy - that injury is my worst nightmare - but damn. It's sad that a guy has to pay for one misjudgement for the rest of his life, but I don't think the resort should pay for it either.

The guy was quoted in one of those articles, making an analogy between the expectation of safety for a roller coaster versus a terrain park... a fundamentally flawed comparison if there ever was one. On a roller coaster, your fate is completely in someone else's hands... In a terrain park, it's just you and your judgement. And some odds, I guess.

[Blackbird]

Maybe with this sort of suit...

They'll rip down all the parks and give us carvers some more runs to use...

I personally think that as soon as you buy a lift ticket... you accept all the dangers of the sport...

Thing is there is a lot of money to be made in lawsuits... and that blows.

Parks have become stupidly wild in the last few years... 35 foot double???!!! WTF??

Pipes have gotten so big it's ridiculous... I stopped many years ago when my fear glands made me think twice.....

More carve less jib!!

My 2c

Steve

[Steve Prokopiw]

If they remove the park at Silver it would actually open up the best long(relative term) run on the backside.That said, superpipes are actually fun to carve in(depending on upkeep and conditions) and if jumps were made to launch out instead of up serious injuries would not happen nearly as much.The jumps at Silver are made by skiers for skiers even though 75% of the users are on boards.Although they pale in comparison to big mountain jumps, they are incredibly hard to clear to a smooth landing without overshooting.I feel safer and more confident on the rails which seems like a cruel irony.As at many mountains the phrase "trauma park" is just what the terrain park is called these days as if it is acceptable. Expecting raging hormonal teens and agro twentysomethings to stay off just because it would be more prudent is unrealistic.They need to really pay design attention to setting up the average,not so great rider for success rather than for catastrophe,because the great riders can still make the most of it regardless..

[bumpyride]

Before anyone renders judgement on the merits of the case they should read more what it's about.

Natural hazards are your own risk, but if you build something for someone to use and people are continually getting hurt, you have a problem.

Jury gives $14 million to skier paralyzed at Snoqualmie

By Sara Jean Green

Seattle Times staff reporter

After a five-week trial, a King County jury on Friday awarded $14 million to a 27-year-old skier who was paralyzed after dropping 37 feet from a ski jump at the Summit at Snoqualmie.

Kenny Salvini, of Lake Tapps, was 23 years old when he went off the jump at the Central Terrain Park at Snoqualmie Central and landed on compact snow and ice in February 2004, said his attorney, Jack Connelly.

During the trial at the Regional Justice Center in Kent, "information came out ... that the man who built [the jump] eyeballed it with a Sno-Cat" rather than engineering a design, Connelly said.

Engineers and an aeronautics professor from the University of California, Davis, testified that the jump was improperly designed and featured a short landing area, Connelly said, adding that ski jumps are supposed to be sloped so that energy from a vertical jump is transferred into a skier's forward motion on landing.

"Going off this jump was the equivalent of jumping off a three-story building," Connelly said. "If you're going to be throwing kids 37 feet in the air, these jumps need to be engineered, designed and constructed properly."

Officials from the Summit at Snoqualmie on Friday afternoon wouldn't answer questions about the incident but released a statement. It said risk is inherent in snow sports, but, "that said, any time there is an incident, our genuine thoughts and prayers are with our guests and their families."

The statement said Summit officials "are disappointed but respectful of the [trial] process."

According to Connelly, other people were injured on the same jump in the weeks before Salvini's accident, including a snowboarder who broke his back. A week after Salvini was injured, 19-year-old Peter Melrose of Bellevue died going off a different jump at the same terrain park, he said.

"There were 10 accidents with eight people taken off the slope in a toboggan" in the weeks before Salvini was hurt, landing on what Connelly said was a flat surface. In all, he said, evidence of 15 earlier accidents was admitted into evidence but "nothing was done" by ski operators to fix or close the faulty jumps.

The full jury award was for about $31 million, Connelly said, explaining that the amount was decreased to $14 million after calculating "the comparative fault" of his client and "the inherent risk of the sport."

Before he was injured, Salvini, now a quadriplegic, was captain of the wrestling team at Central Washington University in Ellensburg, where he graduated in engineering technology, Connelly said. His mother is now his full-time caregiver.

Over the course of his life, Salvini's medical needs are estimated to cost between $23 million and $26 million, Connelly said.

[Blackbird]

Before anyone renders judgement on the merits of the case they should read more what it's about.

Natural hazards are your own risk, but if you build something for someone to use and people are continually getting hurt, you have a problem.

Jury gives $14 million to skier paralyzed at Snoqualmie

By Sara Jean Green

Seattle Times staff reporter

After a five-week trial, a King County jury on Friday awarded $14 million to a 27-year-old skier who was paralyzed after dropping 37 feet from a ski jump at the Summit at Snoqualmie.

Kenny Salvini, of Lake Tapps, was 23 years old when he went off the jump at the Central Terrain Park at Snoqualmie Central and landed on compact snow and ice in February 2004, said his attorney, Jack Connelly.

During the trial at the Regional Justice Center in Kent, "information came out ... that the man who built [the jump] eyeballed it with a Sno-Cat" rather than engineering a design, Connelly said.

Engineers and an aeronautics professor from the University of California, Davis, testified that the jump was improperly designed and featured a short landing area, Connelly said, adding that ski jumps are supposed to be sloped so that energy from a vertical jump is transferred into a skier's forward motion on landing.

"Going off this jump was the equivalent of jumping off a three-story building," Connelly said. "If you're going to be throwing kids 37 feet in the air, these jumps need to be engineered, designed and constructed properly."

Officials from the Summit at Snoqualmie on Friday afternoon wouldn't answer questions about the incident but released a statement. It said risk is inherent in snow sports, but, "that said, any time there is an incident, our genuine thoughts and prayers are with our guests and their families."

The statement said Summit officials "are disappointed but respectful of the [trial] process."

According to Connelly, other people were injured on the same jump in the weeks before Salvini's accident, including a snowboarder who broke his back. A week after Salvini was injured, 19-year-old Peter Melrose of Bellevue died going off a different jump at the same terrain park, he said.

"There were 10 accidents with eight people taken off the slope in a toboggan" in the weeks before Salvini was hurt, landing on what Connelly said was a flat surface. In all, he said, evidence of 15 earlier accidents was admitted into evidence but "nothing was done" by ski operators to fix or close the faulty jumps.

The full jury award was for about $31 million, Connelly said, explaining that the amount was decreased to $14 million after calculating "the comparative fault" of his client and "the inherent risk of the sport."

Before he was injured, Salvini, now a quadriplegic, was captain of the wrestling team at Central Washington University in Ellensburg, where he graduated in engineering technology, Connelly said. His mother is now his full-time caregiver.

Over the course of his life, Salvini's medical needs are estimated to cost between $23 million and $26 million, Connelly said.

Hey Bumpyride... cheers for posting that...

If a guy died, and several others injured then yes they should be sued, the ski area does nothing to redesign the jumps...then thats gross negligence....

It's a shame he is now permanently disabled but people really should ride within their skills too...too many people, skiers and boarders think they are pros after a week on the mountain....

Steve

[NateW]

The death happened on a different jump. I heard from a couple sources that the death was caused by an overshoot, and there was new signage the next day warning of the dangers of overshooting. I'm told (but don't know for sure) that the deceased was trying to make a double out of two consecutive table tops. Given where it happened, that is conceivable. If that's accurate, the management is absolutely without blame.

Overshoots are kinda hard for management to control. They can give hints, but customers can ignore them... A few years ago I watched a guy bomb through the park entrace (a narrow opening in a rope line) overshoot the biggest jump in the park, and finish the run in a toboggan.

On the other hand, Central usually has jumps that don't have anything uphill of them (other than maybe a pack of guinea pigs to observe) that gives people any clue about where it's sane to start. I wonder if that changes next year.

[bobdea]

thats exactly how most parks are built and if the hits blow they are fixed but if it works then they stay that way

the thing is that every sne person who hits anything big tests it a couple times, ****, most of the time I just ride in fast and stop on top and check it out

if you don't scope before you hit it you should break your neck or worse, natural selection at work here, it sound harsh but people do dumb **** and expect to lay the blame on other people.

the idea that other people got hurt in the park is stunning considering that people throw themselves 30 ft in the air at about 35 to 45 MPH

[LeeW]

hey bobdea, since youre at mammoth lakes, is it true that mammoth torn down the kickers out there? I know, we -- Vail -- torn down our kickers after this verdict up in Washington. Me and a buddy who's a good park rider were talking about it, and he said he heard Mammoth -might- have torn down the kickers. we, park folks, are irked that vail had to tear it down, tho we can see -why-. it's scary when people sue ski resorts, esp when they, ski resorts, have deep pocket.

once again, i still think its personal responsibility of their own. kenny had a choice -NOT- to ride the park, and he did it. tough ****, imo. i feel sorry yes, but im not siding with him.

[carvedog]

Before anyone renders judgement on the merits of the case they should read more what it's about.

Natural hazards are your own risk, but if you build something for someone to use and people are continually getting hurt, you have a problem.

That describes every half pipe in the country. And every motocross track. And every skate park.

Orthopedists around the country are rejoicing the continued popularity of "extreme" sports.

[bobdea]

there are certainly still booters here, the park by lift 4 is still up and I've not heard that the park at main has come down either.

Mammoth would be the last place to take out their parks, that's all that interests the meatheads from LA

[carvedog]

I will be very surprised if this settlement holds up once it hits the appelate court.

This would leave everyone so wide open to "nuisance" lawsuits, and if this ski area is operating on Forest Service land, then it brings into question licensing of ski areas, blah, blah, blah.

At least I hope they have the good sense to throw it out. I do feel for the young man, but if you huck yourself off of big jumps with some assumption that someone else has made it safe based on their skills, that would be the height of absurdity.

To take it to the next level would be that anyone who has ever been hurt in a race course could make the course setters liable because they couldn't handle the 3 g turn that the course setter did.

Personal injury lawsuits just piss me off.

[bjvircks]

I just had a thought... in what I've read about this accident the plaintif's side argued that there had been a lot of similar bad landings leading up to this particular one. Here is my question: Was this a very high usage jump? It stands to reason that if it was... and everyone and their dog was hitting it... there would be a high number of 'bad' outcomes. Anyone know about this?

[bumpyride]

My personal feelings on this are

If your cortex isn't fully attached, you have an innate survival challenge, and anything that adds a degree of difficulty in processing information is often ignored.

"If you build it they will jump." So you better build it right, because you will be held responsible.

There is an expectation (correct or not) that if something is built, it was built correctly.

It is society's duty to protect those that are susceptible to harm, because society will eventually have to pay for it in medical costs.

People and business will carry on with business as usual, unless you get their attention.

It is difficult to get someone's attention unless a really big bat is used. Something Titanium that costs around 14 Million dollars and is made by Tinkler.

Cases you should think about.

Swimming pools with diving boards that break teenagers necks (they weren't about to change standards till they were sued)

Cribs that allow infants to stick their heads through the bars and choke to death.

Pinto's that blow up on impact. (Remember that Ford calculated how much it would cost to fix the problem vs. the cost to settle lawsuits-the cost of the lawsuits was less so they didn't fix it-they just let them burn).

Toy companies that manufacture toys that infants can choke on.

Cigarette companies that produce a product that kills.

Decks on houses that fail because they were attached with nails.

The list goes on and on. Say what you want about inherent risks, but we all bear the burden of people that get injured. Yes, I think lawyers are often times the scum of the Earth, but then again they have helped us all.

When you take a look at the success rate of insurance companies in defending ski areas and their terrain parks, I detect a sense of invincibility had set in and they were content with status quo. If they end up paying through the nose, maybe they'll insist on better engineering or planing or perhaps a set of guidelines that should be followed and thus preventing more injuries, which cost us all. It wouldn't be all that hard to have standards to follow in the terrain park. With fewer lawsuits it would stand to reason that rates may go down or not increase as the insurance companies pay out less in claims (of course that never happens the rotten scumsuckers).

We have safer cars, houses, toys, appliances that were all harming people in some way previous to lawsuits. Yeah they suck (lawsuits), but it does no good to look at an individual case and use it as a blanket statement. Obviously good people get sucked up in the mix and that isn't right. Good people need to be aware of ramifications of their actions, and also should be exempted when not the actual cause of the problem.

I Board the Summit at Snoqualamie and hold a season pass. I think the world of this area and do not want to see any harm come to them. I also don't want to see injuries that could be prevented. They advertise their terrain parks and take pride in them, and if you're promoting and reaping monetary rewards from them, you need to assess any potential risks and minimize them to the best of your ability. (This does not include "Duh, close enuff!)

I believe in thinning the gene pool. It's a good thing overall. The problem is that sometimes we lose some of our best genes when those that haven't had enough time to fully develop are lost simply because of that-they haven't had time to develop. Then there's the cost of those that didn't quite succeed in completing the thinning process and we're left with a $23,000,000 bill to take care of them for the next 60 years. Who should pay for that?

[LeeW]

this was posted in teton gravity forum:

sweetheart

Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007

Posts: 2

Quote:

I know the guy personally, so maybe I can add some perspective. He wasn't a beginner and had been skiing since the age of 4, as the stories are reporting. He was also an accomplished wakeboarder, but they seem to be neglecting to mention that at all. Probably because it would speak to his level of athletic skill. Fact is, he had skiied more than enough to know to check out a jump like that before going off of it, and he more than likely knew damn well that it was beyond his abilities. But he didn't. Partially because at that age kids think they're invincible, but also because the guy has an ego that just won't quit. You only have to read a little of his blogs to catch the "oh poor me, I'm such a great (and don't forget handsome) guy" vibe he's throwing off. I feel for his loss, but at some point one has to accept responsibility for one's actions. Nowhere does he ever mention personal accountability. Fairly certain that concept is beyond him.

I wonder if he'd broken his neck wakeboarding - would he have sued the lake? Or perhaps the driver of the boat?

[bjvircks]

would he have sued the lake?

I think someone has tried !

My mundane question still stands... does anyone know if this was a very high usage jump? Just curious.

[Kimo]

I'm torn. On the one hand, I do think the resort was negligent. On the other, all that crap in the park is dangerous. Rails give me the willies, one slip on those and you could be just as screwed. So any time you're in there, you're taking a big risk.

I note the jury found the kid over 50% responsible and adjusted damages accordingly.

If the jury found the guy 50% responsible, they should also make him pay the resort $14Mil.