considering a used beemer... (scuse me, bimmer)

[Jack M]

My wife has a friend-of-a-coworker who buys cars at dealer auctions and will sell them for cheap to friends/acquaintances. Apparantly he typically gets upscale stuff like bmw, audi, saab, etc. So it looks like we could get into a used 3-series for about 12-15k. And behold, it comes in AWD!!

Any experiences? Reliability seems decent based on Consumer Reports and all the old beemers I see driving around.

I really like the looks of the 03-04 models, and I've always wanted a 6-cyl. I want something smaller and less emasculating than the 03 Passat wagon (err, sportswagon... SPORTSWAGON!!) I inherited from the wife when she got a job that provided a car. Plus, Consumer Reports ranks VW reliability as abysmal as they get older.

The only niggling thing about the beemer is the stigma/snob factor. (funny how a $15k car can have that, but anyway...) Will the car be so great that I'll instantly get over that?

[yyzcanuck]

I've visited a few car auctions with a 'dealer' friend... It's my opinion that many of the cars at auction houses (that do clearances of inventory) have been put there 'cause they're CRAP!! Buyer beware.

You'll look good in that BMW...SNOB! heheheh

[Jack M]

ha! good point though. thank god for carfax.

[bschurman]

Jack,

I think that BMW is better then Audi for quality but anything german is going to drive great but they are delicate. But you know that the BMW is the international symbol for a$$hole.

I just wish the Japanese made a wagon with decent power and AWD. There are a few, like the Subaru GT but Subi quality is suspect. If Lexus or Acura had one, I'd be all over it.

->Ben

[skategoat]

I own a '03 320i (Canadian model, never made available in US). Owned a '89 325iX before that.

I personally think the 3 series hit its apex in the e36 model ('92-'98). With the e46, they loaded it up with electronics and unnecessary complexity. Drive-by-wire being the most hated component. The electrical system in the e46 was a notorious problem area with complete wiring harnesses and computers being replaced under warranty. I personally had a transmission control module go bad and replaced under warranty.

Suspension components were also weak.

The Xi (4-wheel drive model) is even more complicated. Lots of lemons.

That being said, the car is a joy to drive. Tight and smooth. I went for the cheapest base model because I figure I'm getting all of the major engineering benefit of models that are twice the price.

If you buy used, caveat emptor. Even the extended aftermarket warranties are of limited use because they are notorious for refusing to pay for items, citing numerous exclusion clauses.

I personally would never buy another European car again other than classics. I'm a big Alfa Romeo and pre-'90 Porsche fan. Owned several of these as playthings and projects.

The Koreans and Japanese have got things figured out and the value just cannot be beaten. Because I'm a car guy, I get asked for advice a lot. I tell everyone to buy Hyundai.

P.S. They are terrible in the snow (except the Xi). Even with snowtires, I never drive mine to the ski hills.

[chrisk]

Hey Jack,

Per chance, would your "03 Passat wagon" be a diesel?

Chris K

[Jack M]

But you know that the BMW is the international symbol for a$$hole.

Yeah, that's the only problem. (well, that and the apparent electrical and awd gremlins cited by skategoat) Hoping the fun factor would get me past that. Audi seems to have less of the a-hole factor, but worse reliability. Same for Saab I believe (and no awd). That pretty much leaves bmw.

I just wish the Japanese made a wagon with decent power and AWD. There are a few, like the Subaru GT but Subi quality is suspect.

Not at all:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/used-cars/used-cars-best-and-worst-406/index.htm

That GT would be ideal except for the piss-poor gas mileage, unless you have a *very* light right foot. (and if so, why buy the GT?)

Per chance, would your "03 Passat wagon" be a diesel?

nope.

[tex1230]

you know the difference between a BMW and a Porcupine?

the pricks are on the outside of the Porcupine

:D

[Galen]

Be cautious when buying from auctions. The step-son picked up a tricked out Jetta with cash he had worked all summer for. Turned out the mods were done all wrong, shocks were coming thru the body and the cracks had been patched with bondo and painted over! Our mechanic inspected it and picked it up along with some other stuff. It took six months and legal threats to get his money back. If you or a friend are knowledgeable and can inspect it on site that would be best. Carfax is nice, but it didn't pickup the fact that the car had been in an accident.

[Gleb]

One of my dad's coworkers had a huge problem with a porsche boxer he picked up at auction. Someone screwed up on the title and wrote "Fleet"-meaning it was a rental-instead of "flood"-the car took some swiming lessons. I think he eventually got his money back, but thats a huge hassel. There are always steals. My uncle got some sweet deals on a few SUVs and some other mid-level vehicles. Good luck.

[modifiede30]

I've been around BMW's for a while now and must say even though they might come with an a**hole tag (that's debatable in my mind - most of the BMW enthusiasts I know are great guys), they're great cars. I'm prone to stay with the old school cars since I track a 1990 e30 325is regularly, and own an online store dedicated to them, but I also know several who track their e36's and they love them because of durability - not sure how the newer models are doing yet.

Audi's and VW's are always electronically challenged in my mind, Subs rust but the engines will last forever, and I don't know much about the Saabs.

The BMW's have bulletproof engines and are mechanically sounds cars. The computer gizmo's have done them poorly over the last few years though as mentioned already.

The only issue I've heard with the ix models is that the drivetrains are a nightmare on the wallet if something goes wrong - this was also very true on the earliest ix models - this may have since changed though.

They handle well, are comfortable on long drives, and will last many many years if maitained well - moreso than most cars. Many of the e30's that I deal with on a regular basis have well over 200k on them, and they're on the track kicking my ass. Most of the newer engines are just as reliable.

Just my $.02.

[skategoat]

Guys, you ride faggy race boards and you worry about what other people think?

If you want a BMW, peruse the BMW car club classifieds and buy from a true enthusiast. When I buy used cars, I evaluate the seller as much as the car itself.

Auction cars, dealer cars, you never know what they've been through.

[griff]

here is something to think about (my 2 cents worth)

I have an 05 subaru legecy gt-with a 2.5 turbo all wheel drive-it has 250 hp with 250 lbs torque

it has all the performance stuff a car should have oversize brakes and much more. for the money, performance, dependability (people will hate this) a BMW can't touch it..now a beemer is great but for the money it better be as with the sub you get a ton for the money + it looks like a sleeper..

test drive one and drive it hard than get back to me. one of the reasons i got one is a buddy races his and beats the piss out of it and with 130k on it, it rides as if he just bought it-he has had do do no major repairs other than maintance but all in all nothing has failed. the boxer engine is tough.

so if your looking for a performance car that you can throw the board in the back go with the wagon (another good reason) plus now when you pull next to a beemer (318 or 325) you can wave in your rear view mirror as you pull away.. (i know i will hear about that line)..

[skategoat]

BTW, "Beemer" or "Beamer" is accepted slang for BMW motorcycles. "Bimmer" is accepted slang for BMW cars. Wouldn't want you to sound like a newbie when go shopping for cars.

[skategoat]

here is something to think about (my 2 cents worth)

I have an 05 subaru legecy gt-with a 2.5 turbo all wheel drive-it has 250 hp with 250 lbs torque

it has all the performance stuff a car should have oversize brakes and much more. for the money, performance, dependability (people will hate this) a BMW can't touch it..now a beemer is great but for the money it better be as with the sub you get a ton for the money + it looks like a sleeper..

test drive one and drive it hard than get back to me. one of the reasons i got one is a buddy races his and beats the piss out of it and with 130k on it, it rides as if he just bought it-he has had do do no major repairs other than maintance but all in all nothing has failed. the boxer engine is tough.

so if your looking for a performance car that you can throw the board in the back go with the wagon (another good reason) plus now when you pull next to a beemer (318 or 325) you can wave in your rear view mirror as you pull away.. (i know i will hear about that line)..

Except a 10 year old Subaru is a hunk of junk. A 10 year old BMW is a classic.

[Rob Stevens]

Be ready for the repair $.

That was what ended my love-in with the E34 525 I had.

And the car is "Bimmer" not "Beemer" (motorcycle)

[C5 Golfer]

Jack, here is my $.02 ... BMW X5 Owner

First -- beware of Carfax... it is a good system alright but it may not be up to date on your particular vehicle you are searching. Get a buyers inspection at a local BMW dealership or Local BMW independant. Check out the chassis for any damage. Not all is reported to Carfax.

Second - possibly go here and find a good Certified Pre-Owned by BMW. The warranty is awsome and better than new. Read the Certified statement.

I'd buy one - specially a 3 series 4WD - great car with a 6 speed manual.

http://www.bmwusa.com/cpo/cpomain?navid=modelsearch

[carvedog]

BTW, "Beemer" or "Beamer" is accepted slang for BMW motorcycles. "Bimmer" is accepted slang for BMW cars. Wouldn't want you to sound like a newbie when go shopping for cars.

Is a perfect example of this.

you know the difference between a BMW and a Porcupine?

the pricks are on the outside of the Porcupine

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just joking guys. I used to have a Porsche and this joke I heard first in reference to that.

[Dr D]

:1luvu:

I spent my college years rebuilding and fixing up BMW's 1980 -1995 I would have to say they are the best used car for the money. The snob factor is apparently key here since they buy a new one every year the resale values are low:biggthump :lol:

The newer design awd's are great I would stay away from the 80's ix 4wd models as they had maintainance issues. They were not so much lemons as just maintainance intensive. over all the cars will go 350k no problem consider that the benchmark as compared to the "standard" 100k in american cars. AS they age the little things will fart on you like light bulbs in the onboard computer and annoying stuff like that but they will run forever.

Best part is that for 15k you can drive something that drives like the 45k it was new:biggthump Go a little older and the same is true it will just cost you 4-5k

[RDY_2_Carve]

Damn and here I thought Jack might want to buy my nifty old F2 Beamer!!

Guess I shoulda known better than Jack can actually spell!

C'mon Jack...you know you wanna go back to the Asym!

[Hugh]

"Bay M Vay" if you speak german.

ausgezeichnet is one of my favorite words...

bis später,

Hugh

[Jack M]

A thousand pardons..... <b>Bimmer</b>!! Doh!!

What can I say, I'm a motorcycle guy.

Good info here, thanks for the tips.

Suby GT: yeah, I love that car on paper, and I like the looks of it, however I want something smaller and more nimble. The real deal-breaker is the fuel economy is frankly ridiculous.

Consumer Reports' MPG findings:<table border=1 cellpadding=5>

<tr><td> </td><td>Subaru GT</td><td>BMW 3</td></tr>

<tr><td>Overall</td><td>18</td><td>24</td></tr>

<tr><td>150 mile trip</td><td>22</td><td>27</td></tr>

<tr><td>city/hwy</td><td>11/27</td><td>17/34</td></tr>

</table>

[skategoat]

:1luvu:

The newer design awd's are great I would stay away from the 80's ix 4wd models as they had maintainance issues. They were not so much lemons as just maintainance intensive. over all the cars will go 350k no problem consider that the benchmark as compared to the "standard" 100k in american cars. AS they age the little things will fart on you like light bulbs in the onboard computer and annoying stuff like that but they will run forever.

Having owned an '89 325iX, I have to speak up in its defense. The iX is identical to the iS with the exception of the wheels, brakes and drive shaft. The only extra maintenance is topping up the transfer case with AT fluid.

The car was a tank as are all e30s if properly maintained. The problem is, because they're cheap, the kids have gotten a hold of them and are running them into the ground. Not many good ones left.

I bought the car for $10,500 and sold it 7 years later for $6,500. I had five serious buyers and eventually gave it to a guy who offered me $500 more than I was asking. The vehicle has a cult following for a good reason.

[modifiede30]

Having owned an '89 325iX, I have to speak up in its defense. The iX is identical to the iS with the exception of the wheels, brakes and drive shaft. The only extra maintenance is topping up the transfer case with AT fluid.

The car was a tank as are all e30s if properly maintained. The problem is, because they're cheap, the kids have gotten a hold of them and are running them into the ground. Not many good ones left.

I bought the car for $10,500 and sold it 7 years later for $6,500. I had five serious buyers and eventually gave it to a guy who offered me $500 more than I was asking. The vehicle has a cult following for a good reason.

Kids aren't the only ones who've decided to buy them up. A lot are being purchased to run in SpecE30, or just as track cars - they're great cars for that purpose, they're cheap, and the engines are bullet proof. Here's mine in action:

http://www.flyingbrickperformance.com/cart/index.php?main_page=infopages&pages_id=3&zenid=c1f778368a08d43ccb2a884889a4b8ba

Jack, if you ever need parts, let me know - I can get pretty much anything including stock parts.

[Rob Stevens]

Jack:

Are the MPG stats for the Sub v BMW comparing AWD to 2WD?

I would think that an Xi is going to burn just as much gas turning 4 wheels on dry pavement as the GT would.

I do think the car is horny, though. I looked at one last year. The owner wanted too much money and it was gold-coloured, but it was a nice whip.

If you pull the trigger, you have to be prepared for the emotional baggage that comes with the car.

-Even if it's used, you do get paranoid in parking lots.

-You will bitch-slap good friends for leaning anything (including themselves) against it.

-You will be embarrased on a different level if it hard-starts. When a normal car chugs a few times before lighting up, no one even notices... When your 3 hacks a bit, you'll get "Nice car. What did you pay for THAT lemon?".

-And, of course, even though you'll only pay 10-15 for it (less than a Camry), you'll still get hammered by "Nice ride, Jack. You must be doing great". Spoken in the most drippingly-sarcastic way possible.

But **** it. Honestly, my 5 series was still the smoothest, most comfortable car I've ever owned and the motor note was sooo musical. I was a gardener at a business property in the summer and it was fun to be the "low man" on the totem pole, with the nicest ride.