John E Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 The G Force rating makes no sense. 2Gs with what load? 100 lbs? 250 lbs? What type of gauge would record the force that the board experienced when it broke? Was that load experienced on the snow or when the owner drove over it with his car? How would the company know? An optional "extendend warranty" is probably not a bad suggestion. This is merely a way of spreading the risk (like any insurance policy). It has no effect on how the board is made. The original purchaser buys the policy and if & when the board breaks, it is replaced, no questions asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needanswer Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 The G Force rating makes no sense. 2Gs with what load? 100 lbs? 250 lbs?. It's G's per sec. if your board is for a 100lbs to 200lbs person. use 150lbs accelerate that over a time period (lenght of carve). The choices (m,a,t) is arbitrary; it just need to be standardized (same test on every board) and transparent (numbers are not hidden). Are you asking because you don't know or you don't think people do stress test on products all the time? What type of gauge would record the force that the board experienced when it broke? Was that load experienced on the snow or when the owner drove over it with his car? How would the company know? The info is not for the manufacturer. Customers can use the rating as a factor in making purchase decision. Insurer can use rating as factor for premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 this thread is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Gs per second?? In English units, acceleration is in feet/second/second. One G is approximately 32 feet/second/second. You're suggesting that this new metric be in feet/second/second/second? This must be new physics. What breaks things is force or more specifically units of stress (pounds per square inch). When the stress exceeds a certain limit, the board will break. How would the manufacturer know how much stress was applied to the board and under what conditions? If the stress limit of the board is exceeded, it will break, regardless of how long the force was applied. I also am a Mechanical Engineer. That is why I was was questioning the G measure. It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 this thread is ridiculous. Aye! Delete it please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I'm betting if you said to any of these guys "build me a board with durability as the #1 priority" they could do it, no problemo, and it wouldn't break. But nobody ever says that...we want edge hold, easy turns, blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slicendice Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 You can debate this issue until... well.. a long time, with no definitive answer. Bottom line is, these are highly engineered pieces of equipment that are built for... and here is the magic word... RACING! Over the past 35 years, I've worked for (and raced for) some very notable automobile and motorcycle companies and every manufacturer of even the smallest parts, has a clause in their warranties that expressly denies ALL warranty claims due to abuse, misuse, and again... here's that word... RACING! So, how do you prove to one of these "micro" snowboard manufactures that you weren't RACING, when the failure occured? You don't! Let's face it people, this is exotic "racing equipment" built to allow you to carve trenches in the snow and give you giggles that 99% of the snowboarding public only watches and wishes for! If you can't afford to pay, don't play! It's simple math! PS - Ask any of the Nascar drivers if they filed a warranty claim the last time a part failed and they blew up an engine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 this thread is ridiculous. This thread is due to most posters being very very bored or very drunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needanswer Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Gs per second?? In English units, acceleration is in feet/second/second. One G is approximately 32 feet/second/second. You're suggesting that this new metric be in feet/second/second/second? This must be new physics. What breaks things is force or more specifically units of stress (pounds per square inch). When the stress exceeds a certain limit, the board will break. How would the manufacturer know how much stress was applied to the board and under what conditions? If the stress limit of the board is exceeded, it will break, regardless of how long the force was applied. I also am a Mechanical Engineer. That is why I was was questioning the G measure. It makes no sense. yes, P = F/A , pounds per square inch (I'm taking square inch out of the equation since different boards have different surface area, so now, we're just talking force. That force needs to be applied for a duration (e.g. duration of the carve). The duration matters because the material is not perfect. Old boards loose camber because of Force applied over long duration (many days on the hill). Again, this is not important to the manufacturer. You just need a standardized way to do it, so boards can be compared against each other. Cool, you're a ME, may be you can come up with some industry standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Aye! Delete it please! could you imagine the uproar if we did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Needanswer - by all accounts, the guys that design & build these boards know much more about what causes them to break than I do. If you can convince them with your reasoning, more power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Regardless of whether this instance was a MFG defect or not there are still people reading this that just crossed Donek off thier list. Same goes with Prior from the other post...Posts like this are not helping Alpine at all. We already have limited choices to begin with! Let's not be giving false impressions of what is actually going on @Donek and @Prior. One bad apple can't spoil the bunch here folks. I really think Sean and Chris should step up and reply to these posts. I know they both participate on BOL forums. All we are hearing about lately are the negatives. What about all the boards that WERE under MFG warranty and were replaced at no cost? How about the other 98% of the boards that are being used and abused that are still kicking with camber, not delam'ing, and not folding in half? Let's hear about those, eh? That the correct response. How about this peach?"If manufacturers understand fact 1, then let’s stop talking about (not) making money. This fact is not meaningful to customers" How and why should people keep making snowboard then? Does any one really think Sean and Chris should respond? I'm sure Chris and Sean could tell us hundreds of stories that would backup their support to their customers... Yep!!!! Do you really think they can afford to tell people they are "SOL" or to "pound sand"? I think not! Of course they can snowboard break! If they had to replace boards every time one fails because some one lands on it poorly or puts to much weight in the wrong place then they would fail as a company. I am really shocked when people break a boards core and then beleave it was not their doing?? A deleam, or edge peel issues that are do to improper assembly are the fault of the assembler, Boards that break are the fault of the rider. Its crazy every year this topic comes up. Every year I say the same thing. Any and every board can and may break if it does then its broke. Done deal. I cant even count the number of boards I broke in my career and I never blamed anyone but my self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 ! Thats why you buy 2 to 3 boards a year...then it don't matter... I have only broke 1 board in 15 years plus... I snagged an F2 speedster's nose in a low carve.. If it didn't snap in half.. my leg would have.... It always follows the weakest path. This is a tuffy though.. specially since its made for what for what you wanted to do with it.. Not like taking a Honda civic and puting a 20 foot spoiler on it and a coffee can muffler then taking on a race course and expecting to be cover under warrenty.. My feeling is your board is made to be taken on the course.. I guess some things should be done. like a statement. "Donek" ...... "Gaurenteed for 15 runs" or your money back! Black list might good Jack. but..;then again.....you can dig yer own hole if ya do.. Maybe more a consumer reports thread and can put down good and bad... Me.. I buy a board that works and deal with who's running it.. but only to a point.. Donek has been off my list for a while.. for many other reasons.... Madd,, I thought it was vortex generators on the madd's not globs of glue? sometimes not so pretty but the ride is darn good.. hmmm like women..! Prior.. "Prior" ..."No Luv Prior" your on your own there! Coiler... persistance pays and now its just boards so its. good service now and communication! Virus... Globally to hard to work issues and wayyyyyyyyyy $$$$$$$ over priced for what else you can get.. Burton...who''s Burton? F2--- no complants here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modifiede30 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Its pretty obvious that this thread has taken on a life of its own, but I'm frustrated to see people suggesting that since the product is meant for racing, it should be replaced if its broken during a race. This makes no sense. People purchase race equipment based entirely on those product's ability to get them closer to #1, period. If it fails regularly, than it obviously isn't going to get them there. But even in this case, no manufacturer dealing with race parts is going to replace something if it fails during a race. Hell, most of us in the auto parts business make this know up front and would laugh if such a request was made. To answer the questions, I would suggest that you buy a board that wins you races. Are you SOL - can't answer that one since I don't think the board breaking was all that bad considering the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I have defently noticed a trend this year of builders not standing behind thier product. I don't know what the deal is. Maybe so many people are buying Kesslers and it's hurting thier board sales. Maybe when one starts flat out not replacing defects the others take note and say well if he isn't I don't have too either, who else is the customer going to go to. Most here know how I feel about the ride of Donek boards, but historically his boards have held up to years of abuse and he has done well with customer service. We've had two broken boards this season that I 100% feel should have been replaced by the company and they weren't. They were bought this season at full retail also. Tex, you say you are inclinded to beleive the builder when they say it isn't a defect.....You haven't witnessed a board with 15-20 days, that's been taken perfect care of (regular tuning, not one off trail turn, no big crashes) break in the middle of a heelside turn while going through a buffed out GS training course. This happened to us this year, when we sent the board back we were told it was impact damage?! Not cool. I really wish we had that run on video. I've always said that boards, boots, and bindings, don't last forever and someday will break that is just the way it is, but when new equipment breaks BTW we have had zero issues with any of the seven Kesslers we got this year. It seems that he has figured out many of the issues he was having last season. Also the plates have done a ton to help keep boards together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Also the plates have done a ton to help keep boards together. Are you saying the various plate systems on top of the board seem to eliminate a stress point on the board? Seems very interesting. And what does that mean for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Are you saying the various plate systems on top of the board seem to eliminate a stress point on the board? Seems very interesting. And what does that mean for us?NEW BUYING CRAZE!!!BUY THIS OR YOUR BOARD WILL EXPLODE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Yellow Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Madd,, I thought it was vortex generators on the madd's not globs of glue? sometimes not so pretty but the ride is darn good.. hmmm like women..! :lol: I luv my Madd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 It's been said may times, so one more time can't hurt: On one hand, people say: support the alpine manufacturers, buy boards from them, they need to make a living. If we don't buy boards from them, they will close. On the other hand, people say: the manufacturers should replace the board that broke, if not we will not buy boards from them and they will close. So the manufacturer, who sells boards to make a living, should give away free boards or else he won't make a living? Am I the only one to see the contratiction here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I can't believe we are putting several of the *few* people supporting this sport up in front of this firing squad. Take a freaking step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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