Vandalrob08 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Alright guys, I am not trying to offend anyone or put any snowboard company down as I am new to "breaking boards". I have been racing since I was eight and gone through plenty of boards(Never breaking one though). In the last couple years I started moving towards something custom. I decided to go with Donek because I rode one of there GS boards and it was Flippin Awesome!!! So in October 2006 I ordered my new Donek Slalom board. I loved the board and it was amazing. Then about two weeks ago I was in a big race and had a great first run. Came to the top of the course and looked at my base to realize I snapped the tail of the board in a really weird place (Never seen a Donek do this). I rode the board in six races, 18 training courses, 30 days total and I owned it for three months. I took really good care of the board and only used it in training courses and on Race Days. Then I sent the board to Sean, figuring it would be covered in the warranty. He said that the board was not covered as it wasnt a "Manufacturers Defect". He went on to say that sometimes snowboards are ridden hard for long periods of time and they break because of it. I weigh a 145 lbs and havent folded the nose, landed on the tail, crashed hard or anything? I was also quite confused as I wasnt offered any type of discount on ordering a new board or anything...Whatever I just dont understand how Myself (145 lbs.) can snap a high end snowboard on a clean run in the middle of a race? Any suggestions? Am I S.O.L? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Sorry about your loss. I would normally say "at least you didn't get hurt" but, you didn't even crash... I have no race experience, but I can only imagine that the forces you'd generate racing would exceed those generated by myself "freecarving." Maybe the best explanation is: "Sh!t happens... Snowboards break..." Still, it sucks, and I can share in your pain (my board was only 2-3 weeks old - 3 days of riding). A little OT here, but in retrospec to my experience/thread: Anyway, do all the Prior critics with warranty issues want to jump in here and offer your $.02 with what Donek SHOULD have done?? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Are you all gonna cross Prior AND Donek off of your lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I can't believe you didn't receive any kind of help or compensation. I've seen you ride and know what your skill level is and quite frankly I'd say it was something very weird that must have happened for you to break that board. I saw your first run on the 6th before I left that day and you looked great. It seems to me that if nothing else Sean would give you a discount on a new replacement board realizing that young riders like yourself are what we need to keep this sport, and companies like Donek, alive and in business. You let me know if you need a board for next season, I'll let you ride the Madd or the Virus in competition if you can't afford a new board. You can be "ar(angel alpine gear's" first sponsored rider! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Not Cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 --Post Deleted-- After thinking about this . . .and reading where this thread appears to be going, I have decided that I want to have nothing to do with this thread. Sorry to hear about the demise of your board. --Other thread started-- http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?p=139255#post139255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam B Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I have a stack of Donek Pilots that I have purchased for my race team with no problems! I also have owned three Donek custom's myself, two GS and one SL. The first GS board rode well and I sold it to my training partner who I coach with. I rode the board for one year and sold it. My training partner rode if for half a season and all the inserts started to pull out! Talked to sean and he would not fix the board, replace the board or give me a new one at cost. After all the boards I purchased (7 - in total) I was very confused that I was not treated better. I was also confused that I had riden three Donek custom's very hard weighing 200+ lbs and one of them failed that was relitively new and the others are still riding fine! I am sure that many of the small alpine manufacturers work on low proffit margins and they must have a strict line when it comes to just giving out free product. You are most definitely out of luck when it comes to getting anything free as far as a replacement goes. I have slowly started to convert my riders over to other products as to not run into this issue in the future. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 sorry for your loss... and sorry to all the others who have broken boards... BUT my philosophy has always been that it's better to break equipment than bones and joints... If Sean says it's not a manufacturer's defect, then I am inclined to believe him. same with Chris, Bruce, the Madd guys, Swoard, and just about every other high-end/custom board maker around. These guys all have relatively small operations and giving big discounts/replacement boards when there were no defects, just hard riding, doesn't make sense. I assume (board makers feel free to correct me) that these companied operate on thin margins and are in it more for the love of the sport than for the money. If they start giving away boards at cost or free to every one with a broken core, folded nose, etc., they won't be around for very long. Plenty of racers are out there racing on 2nd hand equipment. You want free boards? get better at racing and get sponsored. Sorry for being so blunt (actually - no, I'm not...) but we need these guys to stay in business or we'll all be riding old Burtons or New $2000 boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 You've gotta wonder how many haven't broken with a few years of hard use....if it's 98% or something there is no problem, if it's 25% then there might be a problem. I've got 6 or 7 days on my donek and it's fine....but I'm not racing or driving it that hard (yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 tex u've resumed it well... For those who are still figuring all small manufacturers are Rolls Royce owners...u're wrong. Just for your information so you know exactly what it's like: We're into the 5th year ( Swoard) and still did not make a cent out of what we do...we just do it because we believe in it, with hope of one day at least get our initial funds back, and with passion in mind. But the case here, like we said in the other thread ( are we going to see a new thread everytime someones brakes a board > would lead to a nice forum!) is the same: Contrary to other big companies, the guy that tells you that its not a warranty case KNOWS because he makes the boards, or has experience in riding and board braking so he can see if its really HIS fault or just a overstressed material. Believe me if Sean thought it was his fault he would not take risks lying to you about who is guilty or not, nor any other small manufacturers would because its suicide to give boards away when u're not guilty ! Its funny that some want to tell their teams not to get a donek or a prior because of this...( please dont get a Swoard either because we have same kind of policies)... what will you get? F2? Fine get F2's if you think they will give you free boards when u brake yours..don't think Virus will do it btw...Frank wont for the same reason we don't... Of course we could ride old burtons, F2's and 2000 USD boards that will be 3cm thick when its all over with those small manufacturers crazy policies! You could also sue us for " taking risks with your life". N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Also... Bitching about broken boards on an internet forum is the one way you can GUARANTEE that you will not get a warranty on a board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_x Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 was the board custom made for you? If so, why does it matter how little you weigh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Just for your information so you know exactly what it's like:We're into the 5th year ( Swoard) and still did not make a cent out of what we do...we just do it because we believe in it, with hope of one day at least get our initial funds back, and with passion in mind.N Wow, now that is committment! 5 years and still striving to get back the startup money, that is a big deal, that is not something that many people would be willing to do....to make and sell boards basically at cost (after you factor in *all* of the costs) so other people can enjoy them (and occasionally complain about them). Do you think any small builders are making a good living at it? "Good Living" means different things but let's just say 2000 hours per year and $50,000 ($40,000 euro) per year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 You didn't say *why* you think the board snapped. Did you inspect the board before the run? If you didn't hear it or feel it during the run, and you didn't look at the board before the run, how do you know it happened on snow at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Yellow Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 boards break - it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I'm not on either side here, but it's kind of interesting noting the similarities and differences between this thread and another thread of similar subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Sounds like we need to start a black list to teach these miscreant snowboard builders a lesson! Who's with me? I'll start... Prior - can't afford to give free boards to people who break them. Donek - can't afford to give free boards to people who break them. Madd - long wait times. funky graphics. cosmetic blems. Coiler - long wait times. 1-2 years? WTF? Let the boycott begin. (if you are sarcasm impaired, you are a moron) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Prior - can't afford to give free boards to people who break them. Had the nerve to send someone a free board and it was a factory second. Even dared to give some credit for next purchase where he wasn't required to so... (if you are sarcasm impaired, you are a moron) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 adding to Jack's list: Burton (obvious) All the guys who don't make carving decks...since they don't support us... Oxygen (aren't they owned by Oprah? or is that the oxygen tv network?...I really don't think she snowboards) Goltes (my local shop doesn't carry them...they must suck) Kessler (They may win races, but they break immediately afterwards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Thought 1: ----------------------------------------------------- Im not claiming anyone here other than myself fits into this category: How do these mfg's protect against abuse of the warranty? Big mfg's like burton increase their profit margins, decrease quality, and raise prices, to make sure they can warranty liberally to keep the customer happy. This allows them to be able to support even the lying customers that destroyed their board when they crashed into a pole and claim that the nose delamed mid carve. Which one of us wouldn't atleast bend the truth to increase the odds of getting a free replacement? That behavior would put all the small mfg's out of business. Thought 2 -------------------------------------------------------- my previoiusly removed post read something like this: Most of my sporting equipment sustains the damage that causes its failure long before it actually fails. . . Example: Last summer I had a horrific crash slalom waterskiing. Afterwards, I climbed out of the water, licked my wounds, looked over my equipment and all looked good. Called it a day, and went home. A week or two later, I was back out on my ski, and about half way through the day, I was cutting across the wake, and coming off of the second wake, I hear a pop and a snap. At the end of the run, I looked the ski over, and sure enough, infront of the front binding, there was 6 inches of delam. My first reaction was “piece of !@#% ski!” But then after thinking about it, the ski was probably damaged 2 weeks prior in the fall, but the failure didn’t work its way into being visible until several more days of “normal” riding. Is there any chance that these failures started long before they were noticed from damage sustained in a fall or other event? If in a previous event, the board was damage causing a small failure in an internal layer of the board(where the board deserved to let go due to overstress) and then through cycling of that small failure eventually works into a noticeable failure. I’ve seen this in my car, my waterski, my wakeboard bindings, my lacrosse stick, my snowboard boots and the list goes on. This in my oppinon is BEYOND MGF warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Small analogy to fly rod business... Most of the big shot manufacturers, like Sage, Scott, Winston, T&T, etc, over the past 20, or so years, moved to unconditional lifetime waranty. Someone started it and the rest followed not to look bad in the eyes of customer. Now they can not get out of it... As the result the prices rocketed to unbelieveble 600-800 $ a piece. That's for the piece of equipment that costs about 20$ to build (if you bought bulk materials). Let's leave asside the labout cost for now (some of them quietly manufacture on the far east). So, I'm going to replace my Scott 8wt for the 2nd time in 2 years. It broke while fishing, but I know that I fell on the rocks few days before and might had wacked the rod. I can slam it in my car's door, just for fun of it, and I'll still get it repaired or replaced, again and again... Is it good for industry? Hell, NO! Wouldn't you rather pay 100$ for top notch piece of gear and look after it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Do you think any small builders are making a good living at it? "Good Living" means different things but let's just say 2000 hours per year and $50,000 ($40,000 euro) per year? No idea but we have other jobs that help us go through it...I'm not sure other brands with guys on it 24/7 would continue in the same situation...but they are real commitments because they risk everything they have doing it. jack: please add us to the " cant afford ...." list :) kessler's resume is just hilarious ;) N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Regardless of whether this instance was a MFG defect or not there are still people reading this that just crossed Donek off thier list. Same goes with Prior from the other post... Posts like this are not helping Alpine at all. We already have limited choices to begin with! Let's not be giving false impressions of what is actually going on @Donek and @Prior. One bad apple can't spoil the bunch here folks. I really think Sean and Chris should step up and reply to these posts. I know they both participate on BOL forums. All we are hearing about lately are the negatives. What about all the boards that WERE under MFG warranty and were replaced at no cost? How about the other 98% of the boards that are being used and abused that are still kicking with camber, not delam'ing, and not folding in half? Let's hear about those, eh? I'm sure Chris and Sean could tell us hundreds of stories that would backup their support to their customers... Do you really think they can afford to tell people they are "SOL" or to "pound sand"? I think not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needanswer Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Can't anyone be objective? From this thread and the other one on Prior, I haven't seen much objective analysis. Let's be objective in the business sense and perhaps there'll be solutions down the line. <O:p</O:p Objective Observation 1) If you're a customer, you want the most out of you money. If you pay anything on a board, you NEED it to last as long as possible. This may not be possible in the physical sense, but part of being a customer in the market place is to complain about problems, that’s how products get better (Note: By product, this includes the product and the customer service) For all the customers defending their favorite manufacturer, they can defend themselves by making adjustments to their products/service. Objective Observation 2) If you're a manufacturer, you NEED to make money, if not for profit, then at least to keep the venture going. The fact that you haven’t doesn’t make you a saint.<O:p If customers understand fact 1 and 2, they should bring to light any broken boards and/or service complaints. (note: The other part of being a customer is to commend good product/service, and there are plenty of threads with board recommendations. ) Let people complain, it’s their right! This information allows other customers to make better choices, and lets manufactures make adjustments to their product and/or service. For future customers, get to know fact 2, stop living in an imaginary world, stop expecting replacements, discounts, etc. Once you hand over money and got your board, the deal is as good as over. Don’t be distressed or angry about warranties, be jaded; it’s business as usual.<O:p</O:p If manufacturers understand fact 1, then let’s stop talking about (not) making money. This fact is not meaningful to customers; remember that all the customer cares about is the product and service they receive. Also, let’s stop talking about material stress points and just saying things break. If you’re serious about engineering, how about putting that information on the specs. For example, rate boards tip, tail, center on how much G’s they can handle, then let people purchase base on their weight and how they ride. That should minimize unwarranted expectations and provide confidence in the product. Also, I love how manufacturers judges defects on their own terms; that doesn’t seem very independent. If a manufacturer wants to appease a customer, they should let an independent group (perhaps, a competitor) decide whether it’s a defect. The fact that there are complaints means that things can be improved, let’s stop rehashing subjective arguments and think of solutions. Stop talking about what manufacturer's can't do. Already, I can see a line of products that’s marketed as durable and tough. It cost a little more, but the engineer is confident that only a small percentage will ever break and/or they’ll set aside some money for board insurance (same concept as car insurance) so the warranty is for life and any condition. Win-Win situation. --edit to get rid of ms formats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Bein I are an enginer and a manufacturing guy.. I'd have to ask all of you this question. If you had your own small snowboard company and each time a customer broke a board racing would you invariably replace it at no charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Maybe manufacturers could offer an optional warranty like the one on our car.After researching the particular warranty,I decided it was worth the extra cost for some added peace of mind.It is also refundable if I make no claims on it by the end of the term.Assuming the product run has only a few failures out of a thousand the materials,labor and administrative costs to provide replacements might be entirely covered by the fact that most warrantees have no claims made on them.Perhaps more practically for small makers,the unused warranty, or portion thereof,could be applied torward the next purchase,thus increasing customer loyalty.Of course the cost of the optional warranty could be determined based on projections that are based on numbers of past product failures etc. I have always been a loyal return customer of companies that make products I like.In a small market like this one it is just as important to keep the existing customers coming back for more as it is to generate new clientele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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