Razor edges, or not?

[Allee]

I tune my own boards, but the edges on them never seem to come up razor sharp.

The other half had his skis tuned last month and when they came back from the shop they were so sharp they cut his gloves when he was walking to the lifts. After a few days of skiing I cleaned them up and ran the edge tool over them again, but they don't come up anywhere near as sharp as the shop had them. I'm putting 1-1 on both his skis and my boards.

On the other hand, I had two of my boards base ground at U of C (one of the better shops here) and they did the edges as well, and they're about as sharp as I do them.

My files are all new this season, I was wondering if the coarseness of the file had anything to do with it? I run the diamond stone one pass there and back on the side edges after I finish, but that's all the work I do with the diamond stone. They seem to hold OK on the hill, but then we're not dealing with a whole lot of ice out west.

Thoughts?

[D-Sub]

completely unnecessary unless youre an ice rider.

if you're asking how the others get them so much sharper, dunno.

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

I don't really rely on files so much as a course diamond stone... I'll just do a single pass or 2 with a file, then several with the Diamond stone, and then finish off with a ceramic stone...

[abakker]

keep in mind, that if your edges are dull, and you make them razor sharp, you tend to remove a substantal amount of material.

as D-Sub said, unless there is lots of ice, there is really no need. just make sure they are deburred and reasonably sharp, then you are fine.

i personally keep my edges pretty sharp, and the trick i have is polishing them with 3 diferent diamond stones, as well as an arkansas stone so that they are really smooth. this also keeps them from rusting.

if your edges are burred, and/or rusty, use an aluminum oxide stone with yur guide Before the files to remove most of the burrs and rust. burrs put undue stress on a very small amount of the file and if you have paticularily hard edges you can feel the file "scate" over them without really cutting. that just dulls your files. rust on the other hand is harder to cut with a file, and you are better off just gringing it off with an aluminum oxide stone.

Best of luck

[felix]

Never forget about the ceramic stone after the fine diamond. It really puts the needed finish on the edge.

Also forget about that 1/1 angle. Go for 88/0.5 or 87/1 to have sharp edges. 89/1 just doesn't make it. I'm pretty sure the shop set it at 88/1 or 87/1.

[zoltan]

I generally don't use a file on my boards. Once my edge angles are set I'll only use diamonds stones and gummy stones on them. Unless you have good guides, you're probably doing more damage than good with the file. Have a shop put a 1,1 back on your board, then just use blue or red stones on them to keep them sharp. Only use a black to knock down a really bad burr. Blue and red shouldn't change your angle.

[Allee]

I get the impression that I might need to invest in a set of diamond stones. I do have a hard stone that I use to take all the nicks and burrs out before I tune, and a very good all-in-one edge tool which makes it pretty easy to get the angles right. 1-1 works fine - the newest board came from the factory like that, it's easy to set, and it's fine for the low-ice environment.

I'll look into the diamond stones ASAP. My new Donek needs his edges done (first time I've done it, on my expensive new board ).

[jtslalom]

I use a 1-1 bevel with a cross cut and single cut file. The files are mainly used for deburring, not sharpening. I then use a coarse diamond stone, then a medium diamond stone and then finally a fine one. I take many strokes with the stones. I try to limit the use of the files but once in a while I end up taking quite a bit of material off. All in all it takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to do my edges. I use both a base and sidewall guide. After all this I can usually get a real nice edge with most of the burrs gone. It's close to what the shops can do. Waxing and scraping take another 1/2 hour depending on how many coats of wax. I usually do two coats.

[bjordnolf]

Just look at the step by step tuning on the carvers almanac its very helpful.

[wavechaser]

With diamond stones, slowly decrease the pressure as you work the edge, until you are very lightly running trher stone down the edge the last few passes...that is the best way to get sharpness from stone tuning. Also look at the Ray's Way side edge beveler tool at www.alpineskituning.com ...once your edges are shop tuned a diamond stone and this tool are all you will need unless you damage your edge. Never do more than light passes with the diamond stone on the base edge or you will alter your bevel or make it "wavy".

[RJ-PS]

SHOPS......depends.

If you aren't too concerned with your edge, yeah take it anywhere and they will make it "look" right.

However if you want it done right ask around. Even within a shop there are those that can and those that can't. If you find a tech that is being trusted to do racer work, you're probably safe. If you spend some time talking to a tech that doesn't know what he/she is doing, that will normally bear itself out in the conversation. They'll say things like, "It doesn't really matter...." or "I don't care about that on my board". Remember the majority of shops are just tuning snowboards for Joe Freestyler who may not care how sharp his edges are except that he detunes the whole edge for rail riding days.

You on the other hand are looking for perfection on your board. Therefore ask around here or your local mountain carvers, or send your board out to get it tuned. There are a lot of recommendations here for great techs to send your board to. Ask around.

[abakker]

well said rj. i found that most "at the resort" shops are mostly worthless with one or two good techs. i had one where i went in and asked for edges, and the guy circled "base grind" and tried to charge me $45. i just said no, because it took part of my board away and that i didn't need a base grind as my structure was still fine. the tech replied "it doesn't really matter. you can't sharpen edges without a base grind."

i just took my board and left, and then drove to a store and bought all my own tuning equipment. the only shop i allow to touch my board now is Startingate.

[Kimo]

well said rj. i found that most "at the resort" shops are mostly worthless with one or two good techs. i had one where i went in and asked for edges, and the guy circled "base grind"

I made that mistake ONCE. The local ski shop removed half the thickness of my edges off the bottom of my board in one shot. I couldn't believe it when I got the board back. I never went back there and I didn't even do much tuning after that bad experience because I was afraid of losing the rest of my base. I've since found a tuner who knows what the hell he's doing.

[carvedog]

I tune my own boards, but the edges on them never seem to come up razor sharp.

Thoughts?

I love to get my edges razor sharp and very, very smooth. Ditto what every one said on the progressively finer stones. And finish with light passes.

Especially in more spring like conditions you can start to hit those "firmer" patches of snow. And for me firm snow is more about committing to it and not being scared than changing your style.

Think about how much better you feel attacking with the sharpest edge that you can make. It just gives the confidence to go full tilt.

[Frank Morales]

The stones I use recomend using water but some stones recomend cutting oil which ones are better? Allee what type do you have?

[abakker]

i would highly recommend not using oil on a snowboard. it is possible that the oil would either soak in to the base and mess with wax absorbtion, or at the least would flux any wax that it came in contact with and remove it with the slightest friction. cutting oil is not good stuff and would probably cause problems with ptex.

water is inert, and your ptex is designed to repel it. use water, and consider using base tape to prevent rubbing filings into your ptex when using files.

[Frank Morales]

Alex,Thats the other thing I have trouble with is the base tape shreds when using file or stone with a base guide it tends to ride on the tape and I worry that its not cutting true.Allee not to jump your thread but maybe this info will help you to.

[Allee]

No problem - actually, I thought the same thing. My base gets scuffed when I use the edge tool, and I was going to buy some base tape to stop it happening, but was worried about the same thing - is my 1deg bevel now 1.127 deg because of the tape??

I've never used cutting compound. One of the sites I read said that some ski techs do actually use water with the fine diamond stones, but I've never come across cutting compound before.

[abakker]

you really should use water with your diamond stones. they are suseptible to damage from friction and also clogging unless they are kept wet the whole time. i keep all of my stones in water while using them, just soaking in a cup, and then when i need them it is easy to get one out and use it. do not let them get dry as they will load and then not cut true or well. if they get loaded, use a plastic scrubber and some grease cutting soap and warm water to get it off. this also works if you get wax in your stone.

as for the base tape peeling, i only use it for my side edge tool, where it will definitely not affect my angle measurement. for the base edge, you should really be very careful about not rubbing in any bits of metal. if your side edge beveler is still sticking to the tape, consider adding a small amount of water to reduce friction. but yopu shouldn't be putting too much pressure on your base anyway. it should be enough to keep the guide true, but the pressure should be agains the edge you are cutting.

[SEJ]

They make a soap base cutting lubricant specifically for diamond stones. I bought mine at Ace Hardware. Works great and rinses off with water. Progressively finer stones are the way to go. A solid, not adjustable guide works much better than the plastic adjustable ones. I use 2" wide clean room tape to protect the base when sharpening. Not only does it keep the crap out of the base, it stops the bearings in my side edge guide from leaving tracks in the base. Any wide VINYL tape should work. It needs to stretch a little to follow the sidecut. It's basically wide electrical tape, but thinner.

[Rob Smith]

on this thread. Knowing your board is pristene, is very motivational. I've also seen riders on soggy, rusty, pitted, scarred boards make love to a ride, even a race course...

[Fastskiguy]

I've had Ray's side edge bevel tool for a couple of weeks and it's working pretty well. I had to go a bit wild with my file guide and file to get the edges sharp, now a few swipes with this tool and they're ready to go. Well, maybe more than a few LOL. But it comes with a more coarse and less coarse abrasive paper, seems to polish the edge really well. And virtually idiot proof. I've never had really polished edges, it's cool.

One thing in his directions is to use a marker and apply it to the side edge, then you can see when you have the edge sharp. Seems to help.

Sometimes super sharp feeling edges are really burred-the fine burr from the file. So maybe you are just doing a better job than the shop?

With diamond stones, slowly decrease the pressure as you work the edge, until you are very lightly running trher stone down the edge the last few passes...that is the best way to get sharpness from stone tuning. Also look at the Ray's Way side edge beveler tool at www.alpineskituning.com ...once your edges are shop tuned a diamond stone and this tool are all you will need unless you damage your edge. Never do more than light passes with the diamond stone on the base edge or you will alter your bevel or make it "wavy".