Have you switched from Windows to Mac?

[Jack M]

Unfortunately a new computer purchase is still months away due to cashflow and I also want to see if Vista leapfrogs Apple in terms of HTPC stuff. I just got the bee in my bonnet to weigh the options now. If Vista does not leapfrog, then I'll probably go for a Mini when the time is right.

[Justin A.]

Unfortunately a new computer purchase is still months away due to cashflow and I also want to see if Vista leapfrogs Apple in terms of HTPC stuff. I just got the bee in my bonnet to weigh the options now. If Vista does not leapfrog, then I'll probably go for a Mini when the time is right.

Actually, waiting a few months would be prudent, because Apple is releasing a new edition of OSX- it's going to be above and beyond OSX Tiger. I'm kinda kicking myself for not waiting...oh wait. No I'm not. OSX Leopard looks like it should be leaps and bounds ahead of Vista, but that could just be Apple propaganda. We'll see. Good call waiting for a few months to see how things play out.

[Maciek]

Unfortunately a new computer purchase is still months away due to cashflow and I also want to see if Vista leapfrogs Apple in terms of HTPC stuff. I just got the bee in my bonnet to weigh the options now. If Vista does not leapfrog, then I'll probably go for a Mini when the time is right.

You can trust me it will not happen. Microsoft would have to clean up user interface and stop making impressions that freezing GUI because there is background task running is a normal thing... also that application you started earlier has window that rumbles just in front of window of your other application that you have just decided to use instead. I do not want to increase noise ratio, but list of foolish things or behavior that is irritating in Windows is very long. It ain't good user system - it is system for good users.

[Jim]

Both of my kids are in college. One got a Macbook Pro and the other got a high-end Thinkpad. My daughters Apple rules in the comparisons like music, graphics and reliability. I haven't used the Apple much myself, but it is effortless. FWIW

[skategoat]

As far as laptops go, nothing rivals the elegant design of the MacBook Pro. After 9 months of ownership and daily use, it still looks and works like new. I couldn't say that about any Dells or Toshibas I owned. Almost all of them had something that broke off or just looked old after only a few months. My only disappointment with MBP is the lack of WiFi range. My kid's old iBook can pick up a strong signal where I get only a weak one.

[Kent]

Why would you "switch" and not co-exist?

There are plenty of home-servers on the market, along with some that are under development.

I have several computers....MACs are good for some thing, PCs are bette for others. The only thing Linux is good for is monkeying around or hosting a web server. ;o)

But seriously...I'd develop a co-existence plan rather than looking into swapping everything over to MAC.

[carvedog]

Jack

I have to use both systems. PC at work running Windows, Macs for personal and all photo editing and printing to a 7600 Epson. Etc. iMac G5 and G4 laptop.

I don't like Windows at all. And I can't even tell what OS it is running as I won't update it and don't care after all the problems I have had. Plus had to have techie types come twice to get the thing running again.

I have anti-virus, and anti-spyware software installed and it still bites.

My Macs work great on just about everything. There are a couple of things. Quickbooks doesn't have the same preferences for Mac as it does for PC, so there are some things that I can't change without getting into proprietary code changing. Not quite ready for that.

Safari crashes on occasion. I do have the Flip4mac plugin, but I can't view windows media player streaming video from CNN etc. From what I can tell there may be a newer plugin that does play that. I had been warned away from the Windows Media player for Mac, but tried it anyway and it did not work.

I like to try to crash my Macs sometimes by doing things like opening Mail and Safari at the same time and then double clicking to open 20 raw files, and then opening up Filemaker Pro for the store all withing about 5 seconds.

They never do crash. Sometimes the dock gets stuck half way out. Youtube used to crash Safari a lot, now not so much to hardly ever.

My Macs are two years old now and they perform really well in handling raw files. I put in a gig or ram in each, the one processor is 1.8ghz speed and the laptop is 1.5. The only time I wish for faster is when working with larger files ( over 100mb ).

Also for an intro to the system maybe try an old iBook, or something from Mac refurbished. (they stil have warranty and are elgible for extended warranty). Like this one from the Apple website.

Refurbished PowerBook 15-inch 1.67GHz SuperDrive

512MB DDR333 SDRAM

80GB Hard Drive

ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (64 MB DDR)

AirPort Extreme

Bluetooth 2.0 + Enhanced Data Rates

Backlit keyboard

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As a side note my best friend is a 20 year pc guy (he does database driven websites and also Pc system consulting, worked in Dos for years) , I loaned him my old iBook when both of his systems went down. Three months later he still didn't want to give it back and has since bought a couple Macs, even though he has to still use a pc for some of his work. His one comment that resonated with me: "I didn't have to reboot for two months."

Good luck Jack with your decision.

[Kent]

Jack -

You might find some answers here...

Interesting read.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=288

http://blogs.zdnet.com/topic/Windows+to+Mac+Chronicles.html?tag=nl.e622

[cail]

apple focuses on design. in just this they are lightyears beyond microsoft.

user interface is sleek and extremely user friendly (albeit it might take a couple days to get used to it after switching over). the processor design of the older processors (G5 and before) was optimal for graphics, media, etc. which everyone already knows. of course the intel processors don't take away from this from what i know.

you can still run microsoft office on macs.. although i hate it. office is no good in the first place. but it still works on the mac, with the normal problems it'd face on windows.

you can upgrade hardware... although i dont know the limits on this.

people have already pointed out that plug&play is a dream on the mac. as is software installation. this is all part of the good design of the computers. they make things very simple... and the best part is if you want to do more advanced things on it, you can. OSX is based on a Unix foundation. (so is Linux). you can program on these just like on Linux for the most part.. so you can customize and create your own programs if you want.

i dont know what else to say really. Vista is supposedly terrible. i havent used it's a massive operating system... and i've heard that it's incompatible with a lot of stuff..

on the other hand, Mac OSX Leopard should be out later this year. it basically takes OSX Tiger (current os) to a new level. i've seen some demos and it is amazing i cant wait for it to come out.

oh just some background, i switched to Mac in 05 when i came to grad school. had a 15" PowerBook. it worked great then all of a sudden it started randomly crashing. i didnt know what happened.. so i reinstalled the OS.. but it kept doing it. i was too lazy to take it to the Apple Store so i used it for a couple months like this.. randomly crashing ... but i narrowed it down to when i did certain things. anyway, i finally got sick of it cause i had to reinstall the OS a couple times. finally took it in cause i thought it was a harddrive problem. so they took a look and agreed i had to be a harddrive problem cause everything else looked ok. 20 days later i got it back with a new HD. (oh the 20 days was because one of my keys also fell off and they were replacing the keyboard too... which was on back order). so i get the computer back... first thing i did when i got it was try the programs that had made it crash before.. well.. still crashed. i took it back, obviously wasnt HD, so next i thought memory. long story short.. i showed the guy it still crashed and he said it was a motherboard failure.. he didnt want to make me wait again so he gave me a MacBook Pro. all in all i was very happy.

so to end this long message.. get a mac. in terms of processor speed.. that's not something you really need to base a decision on. there is more than enough processor speed. has been for awhile. the bottleneck is memory. and a note on core duos.. they aren't faster per se. they allow for semi-parallel processing. nobody is going to notice faster speeds unless you are doing hour long or day long computations.

[cail]

also just want to add that if you REALLY need to run windows.. like for some obscure program that you cant find on a mac (which is common in the science community).. then you can get Parallels for $80.. which is an OS emulator.. pretty much runs any operating system you can think of (you need the insatllation disk of the OS you want to install of course).

and also Boot Camp lets you actually install Windows on it's own partition in the harddrive to let you boot your Intel mac directly with windows.. but wait for OSX Leopard for the full blown version of Boot Camp. The beta out now is.. well i dont know. i was going to install windows using it, but the warning about backing up all your software and everything before hand kind of disuaded me.

hope this helps somewhat.

[Kent]

apple focuses on design. in just this they are lightyears beyond microsoft.

office is no good in the first place

Please explain.

[Derf]

There is NeoOffice which is a Mac port of OpenOffice with the native Mac interface.

[Kent]

true dat

Explain please as well...

[cail]

kent...

on the design issue... simply: functionality, reliability, usability, and aesthetic appeal are the key to OSX's success. in my opinion, windows is behind in all these categories.

as far as Office being no good... that's simply an opinion. but one i would safely bet most users have. formatting is such a b*tch. you can never get the software to do what you want exactly. partly it's because microsoft thought they could add features that would do things automatically, thus helping the user.. but most of the time it's just a hinderance. Word is my biggest problem. tabs are always screwed up if you want multiple spacings on the margins. also if you want to type something beyond about 60-80 pages, forget it. beyond that and it gets really screwed up. that's when i'd switch over to a typesetting program like LaTex. but you need to learn it's language.. although not very difficult, and there are premade templates out there.

[Kent]

What version of Office are you running and did you actually pay for it? (That might be the issue)

Several links:

http://pcworld.co.nz/PCWorld/pcw.nsf/UNID/ACC21A8F154C34B0CC256AED006F7668?OpenDocument (obviously only relevant to XP)

http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/18154/

(ding.ding)

[cail]

What version of Office are you running and did you actually pay for it? (That might be the issue)

I'm using Office:Mac 2004 on my mac. I was using Office XP on my PC before. And I use whatever is the newest version on lab computers when I have no choice.

I don't know the prices.

[Kent]

I worked in a printshop and had to deal with the people that brought word files in and seemed to think we could just send everything straight to the press out of Word.

Sounds like you bypassed on the opportunity to upsell services, design and/or training.....

Perhaps didn't you publish your supported standards. It's great you even accepted .doc files as most print shops do not. Print is PDF is a free download as well.

Become a partner and resell Publisher.

[queequeg]

Before I post, some background:

I use both Windows and Mac OS X on a daily basis. I have been using both for over 12 years, but my preference goes to the mac. I am a programmer at a large multinational company, and in my office there are three windows machines and two macs. Before I was a programmer, I did a lot of art direction and used solely Macs in that life.

In my experience, the only truly compelling reason to run windows is if you want to play lots of computer games. If you are a gamer, and don't like consoles, you are stuck using windows. That said, boot-camp makes even this somewhat of a moot point, since it allows you to run windows natively on a mac.

Here are the reasons I prefer my mac over windows:

Mac OS X. Mac OS X does not get in my way. It does not irritate me with a never-ending march of unnecessary confirmation dialogs and such. It is intuitive. It is designed around multi-tasking and the very strict UI guidelines for the OS drive a very consistent experience across many applications, making it extremely easy to pick up new applications without having to read a manual or guess at how to do things.

Stability: My machine stays up for weeks at a time without a reboot, usually then, its just for a software update that requires a reboot.

User-Centered design: Apple is a technology company with the production values of a product design company. Most technology company have very little in the way of production values, they concentrate on the technology component of their work but never think about whether or not their products are befitting of human hands. Apple designs it's products around what people want, and need their computer to do. They also spend a lot of time thinking about how people will expect their computers to work. This is why macs are easy to use, and why they don't get in your way. Apple creates simple, useful and powerful products that work like you want them to.

Compatibility: I can run windows on my mac. I cannot run Mac OS X on my windows box. In fact, I reguarly run Windows XP, and Windows 2000 in addition to Kubuntu linux (comcurrently) as virtual machines on top of Mac OS X, on my macbook pro. I cannot even begin to tell you how useful this is in my line of work.

Hardware-Software integration: Windows has to run on any concievable combination of mongrel hardware that can be assembled together, and so it suffers from a severe lack of optimization. Because apple limits its hardware and only supports the hardware it creates, it can better assure that the Sofware (Mac OS X, applications) and your Hardware (cpu, gpu, storage, io, etc...) work flawlessly together. To most windows users this will mean: no driver problems, addressing conflicts and other such irritations: the OS is transparent, and just works.

Low-maintenence: If youre like me, you'd rather spend more time using your computer to get things done, than spend time fixing your computer so that you can start getting to work. There is no annoying registry to edit and potentially corrupt. No primeval bios to worry about. No defragmenting to forget. Mac OS X takes care of itself.

Security: Mac OS X is based on BSD/Mach. BSD is commonly accepted as one of the most secure *NIX variants out there. Mac OS X simply does not have (any) of the security issues that plague windows. This is not to say that Mac OS X is impervious to attack, but it is one *hell* of a lot more secure than windows, whose security issues are linked to fundamental design flaws in the OS. Think about it: The overwhelming majority of botnet nodes and otherwise compromised computers are Windows desktops ... there's a reason for that. If windows were more secure, (and IRC relays were more closely policed) the spam problem on the internet would not even come close to approaching the scale it hs reached. Some people claim this is related to marketshare, but that is frankly, a crock of ****.

[queequeg]

Just a few clarifications:

Mac may seem slower, but you have to remember that stems from having the OS basically hardwired into the computer. the mac os takes alot less cpu power to run than windows. As does linux type operating systems.

The Mac OS is in no way shape or form hardwared into the computer, nor has it ever been. How fast a mac feels will depend upon the mac, and the OS installed, as well as how much ram it has. How fast your mac runs all depends on much mac you have, and how much you ask it to do ... same as any other computer. I have two macs, one is a core 2 Duo with 3 GB of ram and a 7200 RPM drive, wheras the other is a 2001 G4 with ony 1GB of ram and the stock HD. Both are running tiger, but while the G4 feels sluggish, the Core 2 Duo is like greased lightning.

As for the usb drives... I'm not positive but you'll probably have to format. I remember when mac floppy disks wouldn't work in pcs and vice versa.

Mac OS X can read most windows drive formats out there, windows cannot read Apple's HFS, or HFS+ volumes, among others.

Another thing is upgrading... I guess I don't know if macs are hardware upgradeable at all, but I don't hear anything about it. With a pc, in five years if you want to step up it's pretty easy. IT also gives you the choice between running a linux system and a windows system.

Macs are definitely hardware upgradeable, how upgradeable depends on the mac. You can always upgrade the ram, HD and optical drive. you can often upgrade the CPU. You can add multiple HDs in the Mac Pro, and all macs come with Firewire, & USB, and the pro models come with FW 800 and optical audio in/out. The mac pro supports up to 3 full length PCI cards + 1 double-wide, 16-lane PCI Express card. Different macs support different amounts of ram:

Mac Mini: max 1gb RAM

MacBook: Max 2gb RAM (I think)

iMac: Max 2gb RAM (I think)

MacBook Pro: Max 3gb RAM

Mac Pro: Max 16gb RAM

[cail]

couldn't have said it better myself.

[bobdea]

is like allot of the Dell stuff in that Dell works very closely with intel to make sure upgrade paths are very limited, both companies love the idea for obvious reasons

[Kent]

Before I post, some background:

Security QUOTE]

Very unique timing of your post.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6166971.html?tag=nl.e622

It's fairly simple...if your computer is on a network or somehow or another operates with other devices, it isn't secure. We can discuss software development and architecture until the cows come home.

I will take issue with your market share comment. Pre XP SP2 release, perhaps.

[queequeg]

Before I post, some background:

Security QUOTE]

Very unique timing of your post.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6166971.html?tag=nl.e622

It's fairly simple...if your computer is on a network or somehow or another operates with other devices, it isn't secure. We can discuss software development and architecture until the cows come home.

I will take issue with your market share comment. Pre XP SP2 release, perhaps.

Your point?

Yes, apple regularly releases bug fixes and security updates, usually once every few weeks. These releases are nearly-always released *before* any such security bug is exploited in the wild, unlike MS, which mostly releases security fixes after they have been exploited in the wild. Like I said, its not so much that Mac OS X is impervious to attack, it just isn't isn't nearly as insecure as Windows.

I think it's funny how it's somehow big news whenever Apple releases a security update or fixes a bug in their software. The reason it makes headlines whenever they do is because exploits for Mac OS X are extremely rare. Security, is basically a non-issue for mac users. Insecurity in MS windows, however is par for the course, so new exploits, new spyware, viruses and patches are not newsworthy. It's like this: if the healthiest person alive needs a booster shot, that's newsworthy and so it gets all kinds of press. On the other hand, if someone living in a leper colony has to get their leg sawn-off due to infection, it's not exactly a shocker, is it.

Oh, and what rebuttal do you have to my marketshare comment?

Here are the facts, I've been using macs for ages, have never had a need for virus/malware software aside from apple's built in firewall, and I have not once, not ever, had a single security problem with any of my macs, nor do I know of any other person who has. I have also had to deal with windows machines all of my life, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I have had to disinfect and/or rebuild a windows machine, even with virus software and firewalls running.

Its not so much that Macs are super secure, it is more that Windows is wildly insecure. No other operating system is plagued with the massive security problems that windows is. Windows is the standout as far as security goes, most other OS's are reasonably well guarded.

[Kent]

I don't see any facts in your post....rather anecdotal information. That's fine, but you can't compare the magnitude of pc security to mac security. It would be like comparing border security challenges of Mexico to that of Canada.

I love Macs, I have 3 of them sitting in front of me right now (although one is in a box).

The situation you paint above is so complicated I don't know where to begin.

It's best to "agree to disagree" and acknowledge that they are different machines with different strengths and weaknesses rather than throwing rocks....

Security isn't meant to be a vertical feature of an OS, but rather a horizontal layer built throughout all integrated applications. This is an area where you'll see growing concern moving forward.

edit - Here's an interesting blog on the topic which contains a bit of data. I do think the term "security" with dramatically change in the next several years (i.e. - malware, while annoying, usually doesn't pose a true security risk as much as an indentifier of a security hole).

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=324&tag=nl.e622

Damn it...I keep having to edit my post because Symantec's report just got released. Yep, Windows is most secure OS. Actually is surprising news.

http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3667201