Fastskiguy Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I'm a skilled ski carve maniac but am in the process of learning alpine snowboarding. Guess I just got jealous of those laid out snowboard carves or something. So I got some used raichle 324 boots, spent a whopping 200$ on stretching so my crazy hoofs will fit'em, and snagged a rossi throttle sl board 159cm off of ebay. I'm 6'3", 195 pounds. I'm only interested in free carving the groomed runs and I don't really like to go fast (on a snowboard anyway...) Those laid out eurocarves look so totally awesome! We haven't gotten much snow here in the midwest this year and conditions are really pathetic but I got out for the second time this year and managed to do some carving on some really inconsistent snow in flat light. The first day I only got in a few runs before succumbing to the siren song of the nastar course and racing (on skis) for beers with friends...but anyway So today I managed several 180 degree linked carves locked on edge on an "intermediate" run (but think *easy* blue run). Now it wasn't exactly pretty and my arms are sore from flailing but I laid down some grooves. It was easy to look at my tracks from the lift as there were about 3 people skiing today. Someday I'll have some video and ask for feedback but today I was skiing solo, plus the light was flat. So what about this board? How old is it? Is it worth riding this board for awhile or should I move to something else right away? It felt like it was getting bounced around a lot but the snow was bumpy and soft....then hard and bumpy...with flat light so I'm not sure if it was the conditions, the board, or just me (hey, I'm new to this!) Those step in bindings look great, especially given our 250 foot vertical hills. I'll tell you, this board feels like older ski carving stuff-it worked OK but it didn't grab hard in the turn and you had to really be in the right place for them to carve. Newer stuff just seems better-they just tear into the snow at the beginning of the turn and are easier and more forgiving (and I'm talking race stuff too), leaving just two thin parallel, continuous arc. So I'm wondering...and suspecting...that newer snowboard stuff is a lot better too. So what do you guys think? Thanks and sorry it got so long...I'm enthusiastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Enthusiasm is good! But your gear might not be. At 5ft9 and 150lb your board would be better for me. You're right, newer stuff is way way better, and at your height and weight you need something with a lot more kick than that poor little Rossi!! How big are the feet? That might be the kicker on whether you go with a dedicated carving board (which tend to be pretty narrow), an all mountain board like a 4 x 4 or Axxess, or a boardercross board which can still carve hard, but is wider and a bit more versatile. And if all you want to do is eurocarve, they have very specific boards for that. Read this : http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/how_to_buy_snowboard.cfm and check out the Carvers Almanac online as well, which lists the names of boards you might want to consider. There's a couple of other threads on this same topic that you can follow at the moment as well. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Enthusiasm is good! But your gear might not be. At 5ft9 and 150lb your board would be better for me. You're right, newer stuff is way way better, and at your height and weight you need something with a lot more kick than that poor little Rossi!!How big are the feet? That might be the kicker on whether you go with a dedicated carving board (which tend to be pretty narrow), an all mountain board like a 4 x 4 or Axxess, or a boardercross board which can still carve hard, but is wider and a bit more versatile. Read this : http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/how_to_buy_snowboard.cfm Have fun! Well the thought that maybe I was a little big for that board crossed my mind.. My boots are 322mm and I'm running 57 degrees in the front and 43 in the rear with quite a bit of toe sticking out over the edge. The article says most guys are 57-63 degrees with both feet so maybe I'll change my rear foot to 57 right away. The board is 7.5" wide or about 19cm so it's not super duper narrow. As far as the type, I really am not very interested in versatility. In southern Wisconsin we just don't see much pow LOL! We've got good snowmaking and the runs are groomed pretty well (except this year, this year is super warm) but I'm no jibber and mostly we're talking pretty unexciting terrain. I really want a tight turning board that doesn't need much speed. Wider would be easier for my big-ish feet. It needs to be OK for a 200 pounder (OK, now I'm being honest). Does somebody make my perfect board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hey Guy, Those Rossi Throttle's I believe were made with a foam core and one so small would be quite easy to overflex for a person your weight. It might be okay to learn for a bit on becasue it may be forgiving, but it also may hinder you as it probably won't hold an edge to well when its overflexed and may be why you were getting bounced around out there. A larger GS board in the 170's would be a bette starting place for you. As an aside, where inthe Midwest are you riding? We have alarge contingent of hardbooters here at Tyrol Basin in WI and we always like to help new people out in the sport with riding tips, gear, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Donek FC-II 171. 'nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Donek FC-II 171. 'nuff said. I might suggest the 175 instead... I am about the same weight as Fastskiguy and find the 175 more versatile. It still likes to be cranked into hard turns but the added stability is noticeable. I've ridden my own 175 and several vintages of 171. But yes, I'm just splitting hairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Well the thought that maybe I was a little big for that board crossed my mind.. My boots are 322mm and I'm running 57 degrees in the front and 43 in the rear with quite a bit of toe sticking out over the edge. The article says most guys are 57-63 degrees with both feet so maybe I'll change my rear foot to 57 right away. The board is 7.5" wide or about 19cm so it's not super duper narrow. As far as the type, I really am not very interested in versatility. In southern Wisconsin we just don't see much pow LOL! We've got good snowmaking and the runs are groomed pretty well (except this year, this year is super warm) but I'm no jibber and mostly we're talking pretty unexciting terrain. I really want a tight turning board that doesn't need much speed. Wider would be easier for my big-ish feet. It needs to be OK for a 200 pounder (OK, now I'm being honest). Does somebody make my perfect board? You shouldn't be changing the stance just to suit the board. You need to ride where you're comfortable and it works for you, not because your board is too narrow. As a beginner boot out might not be an issue, but as you improve it's going to become one in a hurry. You may not think you need versatility now, but when you get a bit better, or if you travel, you might change your mind. There's a reason why so many of us are gear vacuums! The board is for sure out there. Why don't you take up the offer of riding buddies? You'll learn things from them in weeks that would take you years by yourself, and never turn down the offer of a ride on a different board ... it's hard to get a demo on alpine gear, grab it while you can! If you want a tight turner, you need to pay attention to sidecut if you look at buying a board. Jack and Mike are right, you can't go far wrong with a Donek FC, they're a great board - but there are others out there. Guys? Tight sidecuts on a 170-ish deck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Trust me to little is bad. You obviously haven't folded the nose on it yet but you will and god does it hurt. get something longer and wider now! Donek FC-II 171. 'nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Hey Guy,Those Rossi Throttle's I believe were made with a foam core and one so small would be quite easy to overflex for a person your weight. It might be okay to learn for a bit on becasue it may be forgiving, but it also may hinder you as it probably won't hold an edge to well when its overflexed and may be why you were getting bounced around out there. A larger GS board in the 170's would be a bette starting place for you. As an aside, where inthe Midwest are you riding? We have alarge contingent of hardbooters here at Tyrol Basin in WI and we always like to help new people out in the sport with riding tips, gear, etc. Oh yeah, I've been to Tyrol a few times, twice this year. Got to wear my cool red and black dreadlock hat too, really diggin' it but my ski racer type buddies were confused LOL! Then I struck terror by wearing my vintage speed suit and padded top, I hope you missed that part. Anyway, moving right along.... So I've got a few questions....can you crank tight enough turns with a GS board? I mean, as you know our vertical is limited... And is there a chance of riding some stuff there if I demonstrate that I'm not too much of a hazard to myself and/or others? I'd love to try a few boards this winter before plunking down the cash on a new stick. But I'm not totally opposed to just buying something either-that Donek FC II looks a popular recommendation, and the 171 and the 179 with an 11.2m radius and the 175 with an 11.75m radius, well, that's smaller than my 156cm SL skis and they turn a pretty tight arc. So I could prolly be talked into it...but I'd really dig taking a ride on a few boards before buying. Where do you guys buy your stuff? From the Donek site? Thanks for all of the info guys, I sure appreciate it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Remember that like your shaped skis its the side cut radius that determines the turns more than the length. the length has more to do with how big a boy you are! There are some size queens out there (and in here:lol: SHRED) but over all the flex and length are a height and weight issue and the side cut is going to determine your turn tightness as it were. Someone will no doubt chime in and clarify all this with the appropriate technical language but that is how I understand it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 What about the blade? Can anybody comment on it? http://www.donek.com/01_products/blade.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 you probably wont find too much feedback, it's a new model this year. but its designed to function just like the swoard extremecarver, which is made for extreme carving (linking fully laid turns). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 that I am selling for 500, in great condition, if you want one new you'd have to wait a year and and pay 750ish email me if you want it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamby Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Your stuff is not half bad, and the other half is coming from you, so you're in good shape. I ride a lot of stuff I find on ebay and at local swaps. I'm about 5 11 and 160 and look for Burton Ultra Primes in the 162 and longer sizes, Burton 163 e-decks. The e-deck/e-series is a great starter deck, but I can recommend them any time there is new snow - I ride one all the time. I also have a nice 172 Nidecker that I bought at a local shop, which is a gas in mid season when I've got a few runs under me. Have fun and pay attention to the side cut radius of the boards you are scoping out. The Blade Series boards from Donek look intriqing. The 170 has a waist width of 22.5. My edeck 163 is 22. (Sidecut radius on my e-deck is 9, Blade's is 12.25 - that is longer than my Nidecker.) I'd love to have the opp. to try 'em all! http://www.donek.com/06_specs/0607specs.pdf :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 But I'm not totally opposed to just buying something either-that Donek FC II looks a popular recommendation, and the 171 and the 179 with an 11.2m radius and the 175 with an 11.75m radius, well, that's smaller than my 156cm SL skis and they turn a pretty tight arc. So I could prolly be talked into it...but I'd really dig taking a ride on a few boards before buying. Where do you guys buy your stuff? From the Donek site? The same sidecut radius will feel tighter on skis than a snowboard... at least that's my personal experience. And I'm a much more aggressive boarder than skier. If you do end up buying a Donek, you have a few choices: 1) Buy direct from Donek. you get to pick everything - the model and the topsheet. But you have to wait for it to be built... don't quote me on this but turnaround time is usually 2 - 3 weeks. Sean, the owner of Donek, is a very helpful and passionate fellow and will help you pick the right deck. 2) Buy from a retailer such as right here at the Bomber store. You get to select from a few popular models and don't get to choose the topsheet but your board is sent from existing stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 you probably wont find too much feedback, it's a new model this year. but its designed to function just like the swoard extremecarver, which is made for extreme carving (linking fully laid turns). Gotta say, those eurocarves look super cool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Your stuff is not half bad, and the other half is coming from you, so you're in good shape. I ride a lot of stuff I find on ebay and at local swaps. I'm about 5 11 and 160 and look for Burton Ultra Primes in the 162 and longer sizes, Burton 163 e-decks. The e-deck/e-series is a great starter deck, but I can recommend them any time there is new snow - I ride one all the time. I also have a nice 172 Nidecker that I bought at a local shop, which is a gas in mid season when I've got a few runs under me. Have fun and pay attention to the side cut radius of the boards you are scoping out.The Blade Series boards from Donek look intriqing. The 170 has a waist width of 22.5. My edeck 163 is 22. (Sidecut radius on my e-deck is 9, Blade's is 12.25 - that is longer than my Nidecker.) I'd love to have the opp. to try 'em all! http://www.donek.com/06_specs/0607specs.pdf :D Thanks for the used stick recommendations, not sure if I'll just use what I've got, buy used, or buy new but thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 The same sidecut radius will feel tighter on skis than a snowboard... at least that's my personal experience. And I'm a much more aggressive boarder than skier. That's my experience too. I think the main reason is being able to stick your outside leg way out, to get extra angulation and thus a tighter turn. Anyway, if the original poster wants to do EC himself, a ~13m radius is reasonable. On the other hand, based on "I don't really like to go fast" I'm thinking something in the 10m range would be preferable. I find that a larger radius pushes me to go faster, since the board isn't much fun at low speeds - turns like a battleship, doesn't want to skid, only wants to carve, etc. EC pretty much requires going pretty fast though - speed provides the forces that let you lay in and get back onto your feet. Donek FC seems like a nice middle ground, and I don't doubt that it will give you a good introduction to laid out turns if you want to go that route. If you want something stiffer and a little faster than what you have now (good advice I think), you could do a lot worse. Maybe follow up with an EC-focused board after a couple years, maybe not... the FC will likely be just fine for everything you want. As would any current good-quality board >170cm with a 19ish waist and a 10-11ish sidecut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshack Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Is it a push to ride a 162 Ultra Prime at (a pretty muscular) 125lb? I've only been out on it a few days, and discovered that it's the wrong board for tree runs and moguls. That said, I do ejoy long, deep carves, and want to get as close to EC'ing as I can, but should I be using risers or stiff bindings to get more leverage on it, or just stop worrying about gear and focus on proper angulation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Oh yeah, I've been to Tyrol a few times, twice this year. Got to wear my cool red and black dreadlock hat too, really diggin' it but my ski racer type buddies were confused LOL! Then I struck terror by wearing my vintage speed suit and padded top, I hope you missed that part. Anyway, moving right along....So I've got a few questions....can you crank tight enough turns with a GS board? I mean, as you know our vertical is limited... And is there a chance of riding some stuff there if I demonstrate that I'm not too much of a hazard to myself and/or others? I'd love to try a few boards this winter before plunking down the cash on a new stick. But I'm not totally opposed to just buying something either-that Donek FC II looks a popular recommendation, and the 171 and the 179 with an 11.2m radius and the 175 with an 11.75m radius, well, that's smaller than my 156cm SL skis and they turn a pretty tight arc. So I could prolly be talked into it...but I'd really dig taking a ride on a few boards before buying. Where do you guys buy your stuff? From the Donek site? Thanks for all of the info guys, I sure appreciate it :) I'm sure we've bumped into each other out there, especially if you do Monday nights. I'm the captain of the snowboard team DeadSexy. You probably have seen us in the bar afterwards playing Poker and drinking profusely. We all ride GS boards, and even on our limited hill you can crank the turns if the board isn't too big. Most of us ride stuff in the 170-180 range around here. I even use my GS board in the slalom courses. There are a few of us who have been riding plartes for about 12 years, but the others all learned and borrowed gear from us. There are plenty of gear vacuums between us and you can defintitely try out different stuff. In fact, I'm riding a friends Rossi world cup 172 until my new Coiler gets here. I sold my Oxygen Proton to Dan Mochacta if you know him. He is starting to hardboot this year too and I'm sure he'd let you ride that board. Either board would be a better place to start than the little one you have. I also beluieve that the Rossi is getting sold as soon as I give it back :) It also pays to ride on Sunday when they have NASTAR because a lot of guys are out and always willing to help out with tips. Brent Alderman is another guy who is out alot and good with advice. If you see a hardbooter just stop and talk, chances are we all know each other anyway. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Is it a push to ride a 162 Ultra Prime at (a pretty muscular) 125lb? I've only been out on it a few days, and discovered that it's the wrong board for tree runs and moguls.That said, I do ejoy long, deep carves, and want to get as close to EC'ing as I can, but should I be using risers or stiff bindings to get more leverage on it, or just stop worrying about gear and focus on proper angulation? if you're new like me, i'd get EC'ing out of your mind for the rest of this season. it'll make you develop bad habits, IMO (this is only if you're new...). i just started out on HBs this season and been focusing as much as possible on technique over style/looks. i pretty much try to keep all body parts off of the snow as much as possible, hands included. the few times that i did put my hand down and touched the snow, i could feel a wash out coming on, or actually did wash out. i'm pretty sure it's because i ended up breaking at the waist and lost angulation in my shoulders. the best and lowest carves i've gotten are all ones where i felt and knew i had good angulation. i even had one where i got pretty close to touching an elbow if i shifted my arm down a bit (which i didn't). i have yet to repeat that incident, but I feel that at my learning stages, i'm much better off not touching the snow as much as possible. anyway, gl with the technique. ps. ignore this if you're an expert pss: done thread jacking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 That's probably good advice. Coming from a ski racing background, I understand the difference between angulation and banking...and EC carving looks like big time banking. I know I have a long way to go before I can choose between these types of snowboard turns....and starting with good technique really sounds reasonable. if you're new like me, i'd get EC'ing out of your mind for the rest of this season. it'll make you develop bad habits, IMO (this is only if you're new...). i just started out on HBs this season and been focusing as much as possible on technique over style/looks. i pretty much try to keep all body parts off of the snow as much as possible, hands included. the few times that i did put my hand down and touched the snow, i could feel a wash out coming on, or actually did wash out. i'm pretty sure it's because i ended up breaking at the waist and lost angulation in my shoulders. the best and lowest carves i've gotten are all ones where i felt and knew i had good angulation. i even had one where i got pretty close to touching an elbow if i shifted my arm down a bit (which i didn't). i have yet to repeat that incident, but I feel that at my learning stages, i'm much better off not touching the snow as much as possible. anyway, gl with the technique. ps. ignore this if you're an expert pss: done thread jacking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Joe from team ? but I'm retired LOL! Or at least taking an extended break from Monday nights. I live down in Rockford, IL and it's just a bit too far as I get done with work a little after 6pm. But I'll be there on a Sunday, prolly in February and start asking around. I'm looking forwards to it :) I'm sure we've bumped into each other out there, especially if you do Monday nights. I'm the captain of the snowboard team DeadSexy. You probably have seen us in the bar afterwards playing Poker and drinking profusely. We all ride GS boards, and even on our limited hill you can crank the turns if the board isn't too big. Most of us ride stuff in the 170-180 range around here. I even use my GS board in the slalom courses. There are a few of us who have been riding plartes for about 12 years, but the others all learned and borrowed gear from us. There are plenty of gear vacuums between us and you can defintitely try out different stuff. In fact, I'm riding a friends Rossi world cup 172 until my new Coiler gets here. I sold my Oxygen Proton to Dan Mochacta if you know him. He is starting to hardboot this year too and I'm sure he'd let you ride that board. Either board would be a better place to start than the little one you have. I also beluieve that the Rossi is getting sold as soon as I give it back :) It also pays to ride on Sunday when they have NASTAR because a lot of guys are out and always willing to help out with tips. Brent Alderman is another guy who is out alot and good with advice. If you see a hardbooter just stop and talk, chances are we all know each other anyway. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 I think I saw you out on some little tiny slalom skis a couple weeks ago on a Sunday. Defintiely look us up and we can get you pointed in the right direction. I know Bob Whitehead has a board he doesn't use too much either. Anyway, with your racing background (fastest guy on the hill)getting you going on the board shouldn't be too hard as you understand how the body, and the edges work in relation to the hill. Thats usually half the battle with new guys. See ya out there sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Yes, my quest for the perfect carve landed me on the 156cm slalom sticks. They do pretty well and I like them but I can't turn them as tightly as some of the snowboard tracks I've seen. Plus I think I'm ready for something a little different....I like carving the skis but you know how it is going down the same slope 30 times in a day. I like racing but you've got to start wondering about the cost/benefit ratio (training, equipment, etc) of striving for that last .2 seconds (I was .2 seconds off of the fast time that Sunday LOL!). And if free carving the snowboard gets boring....there's always racing :) I think I saw you out on some little tiny slalom skis a couple weeks ago on a Sunday. Defintiely look us up and we can get you pointed in the right direction. I know Bob Whitehead has a board he doesn't use too much either. Anyway, with your racing background (fastest guy on the hill)getting you going on the board shouldn't be too hard as you understand how the body, and the edges work in relation to the hill. Thats usually half the battle with new guys. See ya out there sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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