NateW Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Halfway through my day today, I noticed that a steep usually-moguled run at my local hill had been groomed (Triple-60 face, for you WA locals). So I went over there with my CustomCraft 170 (narrow twin-tip, 10m radius) and carved it for a couple runs. That was fun, but the run wasn't "well" groomed, so it wasn't all I was hoping for (still lumpy, and there were big vertical lump/stripes between where the cat had gone up and down the hill). I was getting low, but struggling. Out of curiousity, I went back to my car for the F2 RS 183 that I bought from Shred last summer. I've only ridden it a little bit so far. It's the longest, stiffest, longest sidecutted board I've ridden, and while I'd already had some fun on it, I was still a little bit unsure of it. Would it make matters worse? Would it carve better? Would the larger sidecut radius mean I would have to go faster and turn bigger than the lumps and narrow groomed section would allow? It might make a rough run worse, but in the name of science, I had to find out. The difference in edge hold and overall control just blew me away. I see now why people prefer long boards. I had to crank up the speed quite a bit to get the board to carve tight enough, but the board held on so much better that I still felt way more confident. Also started working on the push-pull stuff that they've been talking up at the EC site, and found that it really helped. After a few runs it turned painfully cold and windy on the chair, but I couldn't stop. There were runs where I just felt like I could do no wrong, nailing every turn, soaking up the bumps, dragging my elbow toeside, dragging my ass heelside, just totally loving it. How could I head back to the car after a run like that? There were sloppy runs too where I couldn't quite get into the groove, but I couldn't go back to the car on a low note, could I? Besides, it still put a smile on my face every time I fell inside the turn, dug the board back in, and carved right out like nothing had gone wrong. So I rode until the chairlift was totally unbearable, and got in a whole bunch of the fastest hardest carving I've ever done. GOOD TIMES!!!! I just had to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 for the extra good times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Which are the metal boards everyone is talking about? Kessler? Prior? Coiler? Donek? F2? Is this new science? What kind of metal? What does the metal do for me? Make the board hold better? Make the board track better? Make the board more expensive? Make the board the envy of all my friends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 the metal is titanal and for what they do for you check out the articles at hardbooter.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Which Coilers? I have an old Oxygen Proton that says "Titanium" on it. Does that qualify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 thanks for the post, Nate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted December 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Are metal boards better at soaking up lumpy snow mid-carve? What exactly is it about putting metal into the laminate that makes the board better? And better how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Thanks for sharing that one. :) Most European resorts don't have enough snow yet. Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 The article over on Hardbooter.com explains all about titanal and it's use in board construction. It explains it alot better than most people on this site could (or would want to take the time to ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Kessler, Prior, and Coiler Aren't F2 and Volkl doing metal now as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Are metal boards better at soaking up lumpy snow mid-carve? What exactly is it about putting metal into the laminate that makes the board better? And better how? Here's a good article on it Nate: http://www.hardbooter.com/news/archives/64-Titanal.html#extended Thanks for sharing your stoke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 They make up for the flat light crap snow long lift line ones. And they feel good (to paraphrase James Brown ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Which Coilers? I have an old Oxygen Proton that says "Titanium" on it. Does that qualify? Coilers, the coilers that have metal are ones that you have requested metal in them F2, volkl and O2, these boards either use it differently or use a different material lending for a different effect apparently the Kesslers, Coilers and Priors are shiny because the topsheet is titanal, Bruce makes hybrids too that have metal under a bunch of glass and a topsheet, these are supposed to be more durable thus the construction I asked for with mine. I should have it somewhat soon...... From what I've been told by just about everyone and it does not really surprise since I've seen lots of metal skis blow apart is that they are not the most rugged boards around, even kessler which had a year or two lead on everybody with the metal still is not making the boards as tough as a regular board. "Are metal boards better at soaking up lumpy snow mid-carve? What exactly is it about putting metal into the laminate that makes the board better? And better how?" they seem to be the thing to have on a PGS course, those are rutted all to hell after awhile...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 I read two articles at Hardbooter.com and it seems to boil down to this. The addition of metal into the construction allows the board to have extreme torsional strength without having a stiff flex pattern. Thus, the board holds incredibly well but has a softer flex so it will absorb and flex over uneven terrain, rolls, ruts, chatter, etc and maintain contact with the snow and not "bridge". That constant contact makes for better hold and smoother ride. The article raves about the Prior WCR metal boards but the website gives no specs on those boards. Does anyone know what the width and SCR are for the Prior WCR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 EXCELLENT job putting your killer session into words. THATS WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT! THAT'S why I come here. PLEASE GOD, LET IT SNOW BACK EAST! I'M GOING NUCKING FUTS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 similar specs to the regular WCRs look on the prior site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Metal boards are not as strong as the word would lead you to believe. Keep this in mind if you want a board that will last you a few seasons of power riding Not PowDer riding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 The addition of metal into the construction allows the board to have extreme torsional strength without having a stiff flex pattern. Funny because its what we do on the swoards for the last 4 years. Jacques has been working on protos since 1994 with this goal in mind and it works without using titanal. We are not using titanal and are promoting the soft boards/hard torsion concept since we came on, because we think it makes boards easier to ride, and much more forgiving too! We have yet to test titanal construction, but i think the diff might only be worth in racing where seconds counts... EC does not care about clock :) Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Torsionally strong with a soft flex always made sense to me. That describes my favorite boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Torsionally strong with a soft flex always made sense to me. That describes my favorite boards. Women are nice that way too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 EXCELLENT job putting your killer session into words. THATS WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT! THAT'S why I come here. PLEASE GOD, LET IT SNOW BACK EAST! I'M GOING NUCKING FUTS! Jiminy Peak is holding onto theirs very well... how, I will never know, but ive gone there 4 times now and conditions are surprisingly good for the terrible weather theyve been having. Right now its the only option in this area (Gore is in terrible shape). You should check it out sometime! Back on topic: If I were a better carver, I could contribute a story like this, but I'm still adapting to my alpine board. It's great to hear people still are still getting out and enjoying their alpine gear:biggthump Good luck mastering that push-pull stuff, I tried one EC style turn to see if i was ready and the feeling blew me away! After that I got a little carried away and forgot how little experience I have on the board, tried to go immediately into another EC, and just wiped out:smashfrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Chris said: Women are nice that way too Amen to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted December 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 I see nothing in that article which supports the claim that titanal produces more torsional stiffness and less lengthwise stiffness. It adds stiffness equally in all directions, but that can be accomplished with fiberglass laid up in three axes, 60 degrees apart, or four axes, 90 degrees apart. There may be some minor variations in flex that is slightly off-axis, but that doesn't affect the torsional-vs-lengthwise claim. Also, widthwise flex is negligible, so with one set of fibers running lengthwise and two at 45 degrees a board builder should be able to control torsional and lengthwise stiffness somewhat independently. If you want maximum torsional stiffness and minimum lengthwise stiffness, why not just lay down fibers on the 45-degree axes, and leave out the lengthwise fibers entirely? I've been talking with a local guy who is building boards and am hoping to try the 45-only approach later this season. And/or, a board built with regular triax plus some 45-degree "X" patterns of carbon strips on the tip and tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 Metal layers add significant performance to skis, and have proven very durable for the ski industry. Agreed, unless you bend it, then you are screwed. I have bent several skis with metal in them. Unlike other construction, they just stay bent. They do ride well, though. Next year, I definitely plan on jumping up to a metal board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 I have similar experience that metal is the future on bords too. You either need to get top quality board like Tinkler or then go with metal. I've been spending now quite much time last season with some titanal stuff and i must say that these things are really working even to avegarage Joe like me. This season i have spend all my time either on my new Tinkler TNT or my new Pen BJs, wich have been so interesting boards that i've been riding mainly on them and really felt that "metal rocks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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