Which carving style do you employ?

[Guest Oldsnwbrdr]

Do you use angulation (where your shoulders are basically parallel to the ground at all times, and your lower body is very close to the ground [close enough to grab the edge of the snowboard that is out of the snow]), or do you basically use the same technique as skidding your turns with a greater degree of commitment (these riders have straight lines through their lower and upper bodies and appear to be leaning towards the ground--but I'm not talking about laydown turns)?

Can you tell me why you chose your technique and how easy was it to learn?

[crucible]

The quick answer- a cool one.

The technical answer- I angulate my shoulders and upper torso to be parallel to the hill, hold my arms forward motorcycle racing style, commit to my downhill edge early, and let my legs hold on for the ride.

Gravity seems to do the rest.

George

[BlueB]

And he rips too!

Old angulation vs. inclination topic...

I use both.

Angulated is better on ice and short radius boards/turns. On these shortes turns I tend to counter rotate too - silent upper body, shoulders square to the hill, board wipping back and forth, kind of extension of slalom ski technique.

Also, I tend to angulate better on my heel sides.

However, nothing beats nice medium to long inclinated, or even laid-over, turns on good snow where the edge won't slip...

Boris

[JJFluff]

I use the inclination method. i learned by watching other hardbooters at the hill way back in the day. From that point, just kept working on my style, and tried to make it as smooth as possible.

[Guest Oldsnwbrdr]

JJFluff, cool video on your myspace page! I don't aspire to lay down as low as you are able to get... but is your technique a variation of the method that I read about called "The Norm?"

Also, does an alpine board with soft boots work well for your style of riding?

Thanks!!!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

JJFluff, cool video on your myspace page! I don't aspire to lay down as low as you are able to get... but is your technique a variation of the method that I read about called "The Norm?"

Also, does an alpine board with soft boots work well for your style of riding?

Thanks!!!

Do you mean the "Stoked" video?

[JJFluff]

First of all, the video is not me. Now, at the same time, I do like to think we ride very similar, which is why I put the video up on the space. Check out extremecarving.com. The guys you see riding are Partrice and Jacques. They actually produce snowboards in France. You definately won't be able to achieve what they're doing with a soft boot setup. Even with hard boots its tough. The right slope and speed also help to make these guys look so good. If you watch close at the edge of the board when the footage goes into slow motion, you can see a lot of edge chatter. (The board "jumping" or losing contact on the snow.) The thing is with as much slope as they are riding on, they don't lose much speed and use gravity to keep moving through the turn regardless. Nice to look at none the less. I believe it is the nicest style to watch and look at. Even if you are commiting yourself that low into the turn. Every thing just seems to be working together.

[JJFluff]

Slope=rise over run.

Anyways, I agree, when you commit early, and get low quickly, you may lose an edge at times. But if you have good body positioning you can slide a bit on the snow, reset your edge, and pop right back up, and actually make it look like you meant to do that. Of course the other result is sliding on your but directly down the fall line. Thats the difference between using good technique to control your momentum and anticipating losing the edge. When you anticipate it, you can continue your momentum through your turn, verses just washing out. When you lose an edge while using a more angulated riding style, it is a much less "graceful" trasition to get back on edge. At least thats my opinion/experience. I do agree that the inclination method is much more difficult on an icy, less ideal snow surface. But hey, I'm from wisconsin, and I grew up on a icy, less ideal snow surface. So I get a lot of practice.

[Neuffy]

Um...soft boot setup? I've never seen the extremecarving guys using softboots. The ones in that video are Northwave .900s: older, BTS-style spring-backed hardboots. [unless I missed something. In that case, please correct me.]

Yeah, for icy slopes, inclination will normally kill you. I finally figured that out at the end of my first year of hardbooting. However, with the proper setup, inclination is doable on ice. I used a K2 freestyle board with that serrated edge grip thing, and ... wow. I could just crank it over and never slip on ice. Too much maintainance for my taste though.

For good snow though, inclination is awesome. Fully committing to the carve is one of the best feelings I get from snowboarding, if not the best.

Personally, I like cross-under (quick, overflexed) and cross-through when I feel like using energy. I use cross-over when I'm lazy. Sometimes even just cross (as in, I keep my legs straight all the way through the carve _and_ the transition - only works on perfect, groomed or very flat snow). Actually, I think I like plain cross the most. With straight legs snowboarding is so easy, and you just stand there letting gravity and the hill take you down.

[Kirk]

The quick answer- a cool one.

A quicker one - MY!

[tilledog]

The right slope and speed also help to make these guys look so good.

Don't forget that you'll need the proper board as well...;)

[kipstar]

I found that the proper pitch(read steep) is required to ride that low for more than a turn or two. The edge chatter is not a problem when you are riding that low an a steep pitch either for some reason. you actually can loose a lot of speed on each turn BUT with the proper hill you regain it immediatly. Commiting to your turn early is part of the secret.

I can think of two guys at Mt Rose who can ride very similarly to this on what would only be moderate steep blue runs (of course they look better on black runs but they can ride that low on the blue runs as well) like Kit Carson. In good snow, there isn't much chatter either; I think the extremecarving website has most of the hints on how to ride like that, combined with lots of practice. One of them (James) was at SES I think. Surprising how easy he can make that style of turn look.

For me I guess i describe my style as rotational upper body as I rotate a lot through the turns combined with fairly straight upper body most of the time; works well this technique in choppy variable New Zealand snow and very stable and easy on the body. For edging like to do a cross through style body weighting I think it is called.

but a good rider can do them all (which I am not!).

[Rob Stevens]

The best runs will require all of the above.

Up and down unweighting, angulating and inclining and combinations of the four depending on what's in front of you.

To answer your question Oldsnwdrdr, I would have to say that my first carves were pretty inclined, whereas now, we like to try getting folks to feel it in their shins before leaning into it too much, just for stability. If a person did lean to feel it first time, I would still be stoked for them. The inclined method seems to be the humans natural default setting, but sometimes results in a few more falls.

This season, my goal is to learn frontside E/C's on my freeride board, set up a little duck, actually. (35 and -5) Being on my back, instead of on my side like you would be with higher angles is going to be a core strenth challenge. I did get new binders that have no heel overhang profile, so I think it might happen. I did post on that subject awhile back and got some interesting responses.

Toeside E/C's all day long...

[Allee]

For myself, I choose a style that keeps me from headplanting or buttplanting. Whatever keeps me upright is all good!

See, I'm not high maintenance.

[Rob Stevens]

Allee can say in 10 words what it takes me a 100 to do.

[Allee]

:)

We'll have to ride this winter, Rob.

[Jack M]

knees bent, dancing style.

[Bordy]

Backwards only mounted foward

[Kirk]

For myself, I choose a style that keeps me from headplanting or buttplanting. Whatever keeps me upright is all good!

See, I'm not high maintenance.

No Allee...and it's YOUR style.

OK, what I see here is a discussion focused more on types of turns and technique to make the turn happen - all being called "style". I guess style and technique are interchangable. For me, I look at style and technique as separate entities (sorta). You can take a group of riders and employ a technique ...say EC and watch each rider effectively execute the turn, but each with his/her own signature or "style". Watch a group of WC racers in the course - all employing a more centered (plenty of angulation) type of approach to making the turn, but each displaying their own trademark - trunk/torso postion, hands, shoulders, etc. The rider puts his/her own style into their riding technique - making it theirs! This has been discussed in the past, so nothing necessarily new. A fun discussion nonetheless. Just my $.02

[willywhit]

knees bent, dancing style.

Try using the credit card method. Imagine your wife using your credit card, over and over and over.

CHARGE IT ! CHARGE IT ! CHARGE IT ! every turn ! go in fast, lean waaaay over, hold that edge, reach out a little and skim your glove over the snow.

You can stand up and wiggle through turns , but what kinda fun is that ?

[Bordy]

No Allee...and it's YOUR style.

OK, what I see here is a discussion focused more on types of turns and technique to make the turn happen - all being called "style". I guess style and technique are interchangable. For me, I look at style and technique as separate entities (sorta). You can take a group of riders and employ a technique ...say EC and watch each rider effectively execute the turn, but each with his/her own signature or "style". Watch a group of WC racers in the course - all employing a more centered (plenty of angulation) type of approach to making the turn, but each displaying their own trademark - trunk/torso postion, hands, shoulders, etc. The rider puts his/her own style into their riding technique - making it theirs! This has been discussed in the past, so nothing necessarily new. A fun discussion nonetheless. Just my $.02

I love this topic every year! Kirk nails it.

You should go invent your own style. As long as you can weight the edge and make the board track the CARVE,SKID,STOP how you want, you are snowboarding!!! Try whatever you want just keep trying.

You, your personality, your athlete ability, etc. will all be part of your style

Go out with someone who knows whats going on and ask questions everyone on the chair has a tip. Try them all out and have fun.

[Mike T]

Technique: I like to try all techniques but I'm probably best at emulating racers, proabably in large part due to who I've been coached/taught by.

Style: Not all style is good style - I need to learn to relax my upper body much more ;)

[Hugh]

I striving toward "Classic Kirk" (McClure), even through he has moved on to push-pull with jump turns

--Hugh

[patmoore]

I've tried inclination over the years and feel pretty comfortable with it but I've never been able to lay out a turn nearly as much as most of you folks. I'm not sure at my age (60 as of today ) I'll ever be able to get that low. I do enjoy racing and have adopted an angulated style not all that different from my ski racing style.

Reading this thread has got me psyched! My right knee had its third surgery in late April and it's feeling better than it has in years. Opening Day isn't that far off!!!!

[pokkis]

Flegmatic :rolleyes: