vegetarian / organic food question

[FTA2R]

hi,

my gf has a restricted diet (due to health reason) and is a vegetarian. she eats a lot of organic stuff, too. i've eaten (and enjoyed) meat my whole life. i don't eat much red meat, but do eat quite a bit of chicken and seafood fairly frequently. i was doing some reading now on the vegetarian lifestyle. i'd be up for trying it for a month, though i have no idea how i won't lose weight not eating what all these tasty animals. so, can anyone here who's actually "converted" vouch for any noticeable benefits? (overall well being, etc. etc)

also, what's the deal with organic food? i mean, what are really the chances of ingesting pesticide from fruit? i did some reading and it seems like there are some advantages, and a co worker told me he absolutely noticed a difference w/ organic fruites (i eat quite a bit of fruit), so i'm curious what others experiences are.

moo.

[bobdea]

going veggie is not hard really, I don't mean vegan though, vegans piss me off

as long as you keep your eggs and dairy and are not gonna be too worried about being super strict you'll do fine

you might find it easier to cut out meat at home first and still eating meat while you're out

organic foods often don't look as good due to not using stuff that wipes out every living thing in the soil, this is most notible with brassicas due to flea beetles are a bitch.

Usually they taste better though and they supposedly are higher in trace minerals that you need

there are plenty of nasties in/on fruit in particular, they get sprayed with all sorts of **** and chemical fertilizers are bad too, too many reasons to list here

GM foods are pretty common these days and again very bad

see here http://www.mercola.com/2000/sep/24/gm_corn.htm

then another thing about US corn is that most corn for sale in the US is GM corn because we don't really export it because only a few other countries will take it, even mexico says that it's not safe

the big problem with meat is how it's treated with so many chemicals, antibiotics and animal feed has some scary stuff in it and they basically collect these toxins then you eat this concentrated source of nastiness

a good example of how this process works is using freshwater fish that take up mercury from eating bugs that got it from whatever they were eating and it stays in them then the fish and when we eat the fish it moves up the food chain and stays in us.

in general food safety laws in this country are very weak and the current administration has helped makes the situation worse.

There is so much to learn about where our food comes from and the more you know the scarier it becomes because the current farming practices are not sustainable.

I work on a organic farm a day or two a week and why is because I want to see more small farms pop up.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=why+go+organic%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/concept.htm

http://www.psrast.org/molbeng.htm

a good movie to watch is called the future of food here is a article about it

http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/19628/

[LeeW]

Fast Food Nation is one book I'd be thinking of at the moment. -shudder- Id like to pick up hunting, so I could count on those game animals to be free of those icky horomones stuffs amongst other icky stuffs injected in the beef/poultry industry.

[skatha]

All corn-if the ears are not 3 inches long with more than a few kernals-is genetically modified. The Indians did it, Gregor Mendel did it, people have done it throughout history.

Wheat is probably the most famously genetically modified plant...the first modification of wheat from it's wild cousins resulted in the first grain fermented-beer. The second modification resulted in grain used to make bread.

Vegans are at risk of developing vitamin B-12 deficiency because our dietary source is meat. So a multivitamin is key.

Other than that, most vegans I know are heavy on the tofu for calories and texture(that meaty mouthfeel, to borrow a term from the enophiles)

But what do I know, I'm the doc with a degree in biology-I already know most people here think I'm full of it

[FTA2R]

definitely wasn't bad. not something i'd scarf down like a good burger but not bad.

[LeeW]

well, the worst ive had was "Tofurkey."

[Guest]

With the prominance of organic food in the market, you would be hard pressed not to find grass-fed, antibiotic free meat. Will you have to go a little bit out of your way to find it? Yes, but it will be well worth the extra time and momney spent. Not only is it better for you, but it tastes so much better.

Now the thing is, even if something is labled organic, it doesn't mean it's good for you. Organic just means slightly better. The guidelines for organic produce and meat are not all that they're cracked up to be. Your best bet is to find a store with knowledgable staff who get their produce from a local source, so they know 1st-hand where the stuff is coming from.

Did you know that "free-range" chicken are required to only have a square foot of free space? Not exactly free-range, IMO.

And Bob, I'm with you, vegans piss me off. It's funny, any time someone mentions vegetarianism or veganism, I think back to that episode of the Simpsons, when Lisa meets that environmentalist guy, and she mentions she's thinking going vegan and he replies: "I'm a 5th level vegan. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow."

[Derf]

Genetically modified is not the same as hybridation. In hybridation, it is done naturally with plants that are compatible, while genetic modification implies labwork on a cellular level where non-plant genes are inserted.

[Allee]

Fast Food Nation is one book I'd be thinking of at the moment. -shudder- Id like to pick up hunting, so I could count on those game animals to be free of those icky horomones stuffs amongst other icky stuffs injected in the beef/poultry industry.

Uh huh. But I hear that tuberculosis is tasty... :)

[Slim]

If you'd like to learn more about how/where our food comes from, you might enjoy Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma. Here's a link to the listing on Amazon.

The book addresses industrial agriculture, organic industrial, sustainable farming, and hunting gathering. It's wonderfully well written and will cause you to look at ALL foods you eat a bit differently.

Best book I've read, so far, this year.

[Jon Dahl]

the real problem is our food chain is in trouble from top to bottom. Man has tinkered with it untill it is no longer what it should be. I eat eggs, cold water fish, and may go back to a little red meat once I identify my personal needs. Stay away from shellfish, or any bottom feeders in the food chain. Laugh if you will, but if you use the Bible guidlines for food products, especially when you are talking about meats, you will have the best available foods for your body. Total vegans especially have some health issues to deal with, B-12 the foremost.

[Justin A.]

well, the worst ive had was "Tofurkey."

Everybody loves Raymond!!!! :lol:

Anyway...a few years back, my girlfriend's mother's boyfriend moved in with them, and he has a heart condition that kept him from eating beef/red meat. When he moved in, his lifestyle rubbed off on my girlfriend, and when she moved in with me, it rubbed off on me. Anyway...moral of the story: Being vegitarian isn't such a bad thing, just don't go all out. Don't give up your milk, cheese, wet-food, ect., and take your vitamins (its good for you anyway). We both still eat lotsa chicken and turkey, and we occasionaly indulge in a burger or good steak. As long as she isn't a fanatacal "OH NO POOR ANIMALS" kinda person, you shouldn't have a problem.

Vegans piss me off too. There are only a few that I've met that I've liked. One of them isn't a vegan per-sey but he didn't eat anything that would kill the object that it came from (raddish, eggs, potatos, onions, ect.). No, he wasn't a hippie fruit, it was actually religion/culture. He came from a particulary inhospitable reigon of India where you wouldn't be able to re-plant a garden all the time, so...in the case of lettuce, they would go out and take a few leaves off of some plants to make a salad or something. Goat milk was good, stuff like that. It's actually an interesting concept and not a half bad idea.

Organic food almost ALWAYS tastes better, and we've actually started eating almost all organic/all natural stuff.

If anyone in northern mass/southern NH is interested, there is a store in south Manchester that specializes in that kind of stuff. Its called the A-Market, they have decent prices and really good stuff. Hannaford also have an excellent selection. If you want directions to the A-Market gimme a yell.

Good luck.

________

Rhode island dispensary

[bobdea]

the problem being is that the large companies don't have to actually use organic products if they are not available but can still label it as such, a few other things have changed as well to weaken the standard here in the US

the best organic stuf you're gonna get is stuff from small farms so stop at that farmstand on your way home or grow your own

Skatha, by GM I am refering to things like tomatoes with fish genes, not selective breeding

even if I had no problems with the possible health issues with GM foods I would still be against them due to patent law that puts small farmers out of business and the GM foods that are modified so more pesticides/herbicides can be used on them

**** Monsanto and the rest of 'em

grass fed beef is good not many breeds can actually be finished on grass, I know devons can though

if anyone in MA is interested this place has amazing beef http://www.hardwickbeef.com/

[Jon Dahl]

one of the issues we all face with food is bioavailability, and our unique metabolisms. Grains have a real good looking nutriant profile, but is it in a fashion that we can use? Some ethnic groups have some grain issues, especially wheat, and wheat the way it is now. I grew up on a farm in Wisconson, and ate a lot of meat, most was home sourced. Now, I can hardly stand to eat red meat or chicken. And I agree with the Tofurkey comments, where did they think that stuff up at?? Before anyone goes wholesale vegetarian, they should find out the metabolism type they are, and tailor their diet around that. All should take a careful look at where the food they eat comes from, and make choices with that in mind. And supplements are another area, does your body REALLY deal with engineered chemicals that imitate naturally occuring vitamins and minerals, speaking of course of those things we find in foods. Ever take a multi-vitamin and have bright yellow urine almost immediatly afterwards? Think your body is really absorbing that stuff, or is it in defense mode? Hmmm. Sorry, I don't have a quick easy answer for all these questions, time for everyone to do some homework. One good site for info is Dr. Mercola's website, he pushes his solutions of course, but good info none the less. Another good place for information is the Life Extension group. To get the newsletter requires $, but they do cover all the timely topics. The list could go on, but i know these two don't have a huge personal agenda they push. Now, go make good choices.

[FTA2R]

I don't plan on going 100%, certainly not anytime soon. I'd probably shrivel up and fall over, lol. i'm not a big dairy guy at all (almost no milk, limited cheese). for now i just wanna go w/o red meat for a month and see how i feel. i'll try some organic fruit too, since i eat an apple almost every day and generally like fruit.

"Ever take a multi-vitamin and have bright yellow urine almost immediatly afterwards? Think your body is really absorbing that stuff, or is it in defense mode" i believe this is why they say take vitamins after eating, b/c absorption rate is much better. i take centrum when i can remember too.

the book sounds interesting, but no time to read it now.

re: free range, my girlfriend said something similar, as she grew up on some kind of farm. my question is, "so, what does this mean." are the chickens eathing each other's crap or what? (sorry for the visual). not sure what teh effect of chickens living closely is...

[bobdea]

http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery/hens5.htm

I'm not against meat at all, just don't eat much and I am against how the big farms often do it, chicken farms are probably the nastiest

[kipstar]

The other things is to eat without wastage, I think this is a good idea.

e.g. when some people eat a prawn, they don't eat the head?! Catching a fish fish ,then filleting it and and eating fish fillets then throw rest in rubbish, rather than the whole fish including head.

The biggest crock is low fat or low sugar. usually is one or the other. Better to eat an orange, than to drink processed orange juice, and better to not eat the low fat cookies/low sugar soda at all.

Mind you, now we have this new chain here called Roti Boy, and it is supreme junk food; a custard filled baked sugary bun, covered in coffee flavour icing.

I think it is maybe 30g, and of that it is 25g sugar, and 5g fat.

As for vegetarian stuff, so long as it isn't overboard, I think it is ok. I remember some friend of mine brought a vegan with her.

She insisted to order her dinner herself, and wouldn't let me help her, even though she couldn't speak Thai; this seems to be typical of some people on holiday, they want to control everything so they don't feel like they are lost. So then it arrives, and of course, she doesn't know that almost all Thai dishes that are salty use fish sauce, so she cannot eat that. She ordered 3 dishes and ended up having to eat a western salad covered in mayonnaise while everyone else feasted. Actually, it meant I got to eat more, so maybe vegans are ok :-)

She was one of these 'all spiritual' connected to the spirit world. Funny that she didn't really understand anything at all about Buddhism at all; her version was so screwed up, I couldn't even see how it was buddhism at all?!

American eggs look very unhealthy if they aren't free range; normally yoke should be bright yellow; the ones I ate were like pale almost white. That cann't be good.

[bobdea]

it's the smug atitudes that many of them have, as someone who has worked in and with animal shelters and animal rights projects I can say I have allot against PETA types.

they generally don't understand some simple concepts, same types that join religious cults and stuff.

not all of them but allot of them.

who's Charles Dammer?

[D-Sub]

only problem is this whole "organic" thing is a profiteering trend, and most of the people perpetrating are just ****ing others over. whats the diff?

[Guest]

Actually bola, if I'm not mistaken, the translation from the original texts was skewed, and that the actual workind is more similar to "Thou shall not murder." Correct me if I'm wrong though.

And I'm with Bob, as it's mostly the attitudes vegans have regarding their food choices.

And if you want a good laugh regarding this topic, check out this site:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

[Neil Gendzwill]

How come cows live healthy lives on GRASS?

Because that is how they've evolved. They have a whole different digestive system than we do. We're omnivores and do best on a mixed diet. I've got nothing against vegetarians, I've got nothing against religious people - just don't preach at me and expect me to change.

Around this neck of the woods, PETA stands for People Eating Tasty Animals.

[D-Sub]

so much for vegetarians not being preachy.

[bobdea]

think people who keep bees should be charged with animal abuse

PETA uthanizes around 90% of the animals it takes in because it's more expensive to keep them alive and find them homes, PETA has even been charged with this.

PETA does some great stuff but they also do allot of really stupid **** too

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=93730&ran=57036 there is just one case where they got caught

[D-Sub]

:AR15firinPETA

:AR15firinMilitant Vegans

:AR15firinPeople who abuse animals

:AR15firinSelf-Righteousness.

oh, and...non-christians quoting the bible? uh....

[Jon Dahl]

Actually bola, if I'm not mistaken, the translation from the original texts was skewed, and that the actual workind is more similar to "Thou shall not murder."

Actually, Bola, as someone who has spent a lot of time (12+ years) dealing with the essentaily dead language of ancient Hebrew, Jim has the essence of the command down fairly well. It would do us all well to remember that God gave several dietary "commands" in the O.T. book of Leviticus about what meats to eat, thereby essentially separarting humans with three dimensional thinking from the animal kingdom, with it's two dimensional thought processes. Now, I'm not saying go out and abuse the animal kingdom, but we need to realise the "dominion" that we were given isn't we are in charge, it is that we are stewards. PETA people are messed up, blurring the lines of distinction and essentially worshiping the creation, and not the creator. I suppose, philosophically, that's all they have left after what they've done. And all out meat eaters would also do well to remember, if they admit they are created, that God first gave a vegetarian diet to man, and after the fall, added grains to that. Not until after the flood was over did God give animal flesh as food to eat. All told, I am hesitant to tell anyone to go vegetarian unless they have thought it out well, seen truly what the physical needs of their body are, and made a choice from that. My choices may not be what you need, so as the saying goes, your mileage may vary.