Galen Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Did it in walk mode on a toeside, pushing my 158 Madd a little hard. Ever see this? Looks like the cuff went so far forward, blew out the plastic stops at the end of the track. Then it locked in like position negative 3! Did'nt know my ankle was so flexible. Easy fix at the rental shop though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 also in walk mode but I went so far that I flexed the upper cuff over the ears of plastic that guide your liner into the boot. So it locked my lower leg at about 35 degree forward angle. Had to slide to a stop and try to get my hyperflexed ankle out so I could get the damn thing back down, kind of hurt getting my foot out. I could never ride in walk mode again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 thats why it is called walk mode..... Too much energy for the little stops without the lock cam in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Get thee a BTS next season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Yeah, I know it's walk mode, but lots of people ride in it, just never heard of this problem. Yup, BTS is on the list fer sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Walk mode riding is a great way to break boots. I know their are bunches of people that ride in walk mode and I wish the person who started this silly trend knew that they where placing the riders in danger of gear failure. I am not coming down on you for riding in walk mode but how much Power can you really make when the most supportive part of the boot is not attached? If I was riding a little Madd I would want all the help I could get out of my Boots to keep control over the board. So many riders have flaws in technique (Not saying you do) so instead of fixing the technique they go for Walk mode and Blow up boots. Perhaps the soft BTS is a good answer but the boot was never made to handle all that movement while riding. Maybe even try a spring FLAD from the Indy. Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I don't know about Raichle/Deeluxe boots, but in the manual of my Burton boots (1997 Furnace), it says you can ride the rear foot in walk mode when riding in powder/soft conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Walk mode riding is a great way to break boots. I know their are bunches of people that ride in walk mode and I wish the person who started this silly trend knew that they where placing the riders in danger of gear failure. The suggestion was made to me @ a camp, in order to get me to use my ankles while riding, and ride "buttom-up" in general. I met the coach half way - lever down, turned 90 degrees - a.k.a "powder mode". Some loss of power? Yes. Did my riding improve anyway? Absolutely. Is this just a "get you over the hump" trick for begintermediates? Perhaps... certainly interested in your opinion on that matter. I am not coming down on you for riding in walk mode but how much Power can you really make when the most supportive part of the boot is not attached? If I was riding a little Madd I would want all the help I could get out of my Boots to keep control over the board. So many riders have flaws in technique (Not saying you do) so instead of fixing the technique they go for Walk mode and Blow up boots. Perhaps the soft BTS is a good answer but the boot was never made to handle all that movement while riding. Maybe even try a spring FLAD from the Indy. I've used soft BTS, at 195 pounds. I find the movement range is about the same as "powder mode". I am not sure that a fellow such as myself is going to drive my boots (soft / medium BTS equipped Suzukas) to the point where I am fatiguiing the plastic. I suspect the BTS itself is the strong link in the system. I also suspect the cant/joint is the weak link no matter whether your boors are locked or unlocked. Bordy, you're light years beyond me as a rider and I have little doubt you could drive such a setup to failure. I have little doubt you could drive Indys with locked 5-pos lean to failure if you wanted to. Most of us aren't at your level and won't push our gear as hard. I've broken two Raichle SB series shells riding - cracked the plastic of the shell right at the cant adjuster. But both times were *with the lean locked*. Both were crashes, and both were rear boots. The cant mechanism essentially pulled through its hold, breaking the plastic shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Walk mode riding is a great way to break boots. I know their are bunches of people that ride in walk mode and I wish the person who started this silly trend knew that they where placing the riders in danger of gear failure. I walked to the mountain one day in Walk mode. I got very excited and forgot to lock 'em in. While feeling strange I didn't figure out what was happening for a while and then one of my buddys said something like. "What, did you eat your wheaties or something this morning?" While I ulitimately decided it was not the wheaties or the lockdown, but a strange spider bite that emulated the effect of steroids. That was back in '92. The next season I noticed others trying my now abandoned technique of riding.I tried to tell them, but no one listened. So unless the "hundredth monkey" effect can be traced to others who simultaneously did the same thing......it was I. So Bordy I am sorry. I repent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Mike: I agree it is a good DRILL in a controled in Environment to change the flex of a boot to develop rider feel and control there is more then one way to do it. You can loosen you buckles or even leave them open in numerous arrangements, If you boot has a flex adjustor you can change the boot flex with the spring to make it softer. In the deeluxe five position forward lean adjuster ther is the “powder mode” or free flex mode If you turn the knob it lowers a set stop that acts as the end stop for flex in “walk” mode there is no set stop so you bottom out the slide on the track not the stop and place much more force on the slide which can cause falure and LOCK the boot in strange angles, which may in turn lead to injury. Perhaps I should have been clearer about the 5-position of course with the FLAD or BTS you can just make adjustments. If a rider finds the need to always ride a boot in the Free Flex mode then perhaps They should try a softer boot if they are riding groomers and smooth terrain. There are of course varable conditions which change the riders needs That’s why some manufactures have chosen Free Flex modes as option on several boots. In this case Galen said he was “pushing his Madd 58 a little to hard” so I am guessing it was on groomed terrain. And that he was in control and making it happen. So bummer that’s why I mention the cam lock. Hopefully some riders will read this thread and stop riding in Walk and ride in the Free Flex mode when they need all the flex of a softer boot. And for some of the riders that are riding in Free Flex all the time comfortably on groomers maybe you need a boot that flexs differently. Just a suggestion, I know we all want to own one pair of boots that “does it all” but just because a boot fit the feet and the wallet does not always mean the boots fit the rider. Heck if you buy more boots the industry will grow! There is also the possiblitty that something in the whole system could be wrong. Perhaps the board or bindings net to flex more? It is all so personal. I just don’t want any one to get hurt, and be able to ride their best you know how I am. Carvedog, O-kay its your fault I could only find 99 other monkeys…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Bordy, thanks for all the comments, advice, observations, etc... going over it in my head, I'd say your conclusions are spot on. I wouldn't call myself anything more then an intermediate carver, so I've probably never pushed it hard enough in walk mode to have it be a problem. The Madd is a new acquisition, and while I had no problems with it on the easier blues, the terrain I was on when the lean broke is right at the edge of my ability for carving, summit run at Bachelor. Board and terrain required I be much more aggressive then usual. while I dont regret having been riding in walk mode, as it's helped me be more fluid, the incident and your comments make me think I need to re-assess riding in walk mode if I want to take it to the next level, if for no other reason but saftey. Thanks for the words. Oh yeah, I still want the BTS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Hey guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "powder mode" stop the backward flex, but not the forward flex? If so, it wouldn't help to avoid the failure I experienced. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Hey guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "powder mode" stop the backward flex, but not the forward flex? If so, it wouldn't help to avoid the failure I experienced. Am I missing something? Sounds right to me... not that I'm the true expert... Wish I could have made some turns with you this weekend, but I've got a new engineer to train this week. It's a good investment - more time off for me once he gets up to speed Any chance you're sticking around for the dumpage this weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Walk mode riding is a great way to break boots. I know their are bunches of people that ride in walk mode and I wish the person who started this silly trend knew that they where placing the riders in danger of gear failure.I am not coming down on you for riding in walk mode but how much Power can you really make when the most supportive part of the boot is not attached? If I was riding a little Madd I would want all the help I could get out of my Boots to keep control over the board. So many riders have flaws in technique (Not saying you do) so instead of fixing the technique they go for Walk mode and Blow up boots. Perhaps the soft BTS is a good answer but the boot was never made to handle all that movement while riding. Maybe even try a spring FLAD from the Indy. Billy doing this causes prroblems with UPZ boots and Burton as well, though I have ridden unlocked a fair amount in particular in my liftie days the price I payed was killing a pair of shells before their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 This thread got me thinking, just how much are my shells flexing with my soft BTS springs? I went downstrairs, put 'em on, stepped into the bindings on my rock deck, and flex 'em forward as much as I could. HOLY S**T. The ankle buckle nearly popped loose! I never realized how much my shells were flexing. More like deforming! I wonder if I'm flexing 'em that hard riding. In any case, putting medium springs on still lets them flex a good deal but not into the scary zone like the soft ones do. Methinks I'll leave the medium springs on and see how they feel after a few days on snow. Who knows Bordy - you might have saved me from a boot failure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Sounds right to me... not that I'm the true expert... Wish I could have made some turns with you this weekend, but I've got a new engineer to train this week. It's a good investment - more time off for me once he gets up to speed Any chance you're sticking around for the dumpage this weekend? Wish I could. Timing with the weather kinda sucked this trip, but the dates were locked. I should be down here a few more times this season. Was reading in the local paper today the season may go into the end of may. I'll probably be back in 10-14 days. No kids this time, so we'll probably be able to time it with the weather better. Hope we get some turns in together before the season end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Bryan, you may want to change your BTS springs at lunch time. I think Bomber is now offering the "2 orders of chilli fries and a burger" springs. Might want to check that out. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I just got a pair of the BTS adjusters. Are these available now? I thought they were sold out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Are these available now? I thought they were sold out. They are available to those who are resourceful: Bryan's BTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 That was a pretty smart idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 "And for some of the riders that are riding in Free Flex all the time comfortably on groomers maybe you need a boot that flexs differently. Just a suggestion, I know we all want to own one pair of boots that “does it all” but just because a boot fit the feet and the wallet does not always mean the boots fit the rider. Heck if you buy more boots the industry will grow!" (oops, kinda messed up on the quote function) Exactly why the BTS upgrade appealed to me. Love the ankle mobility that free flex offers but really want something with a little more response. All out of BTS by JANUARY '06 For sure by November '06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Bob- Riding in walk mode in UPZ's, even for a drill, will mess them up. The plastic at the back of the ankle flexes too much and gets stuck. I almost killed the boots getting them back to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 "And for some of the riders that are riding in Free Flex all the time comfortably on groomers maybe you need a boot that flexs differently. Just a suggestion, I know we all want to own one pair of boots that “does it all” but just because a boot fit the feet and the wallet does not always mean the boots fit the rider. Heck if you buy more boots the industry will grow!" (oops, kinda messed up on the quote function) Exactly why the BTS upgrade appealed to me. Love the ankle mobility that free flex offers but really want something with a little more response. All out of BTS by JANUARY '06 For sure by November '06 Kirk, knowing your "Low" style. I am sure you are going to like the BTS! I would only caution folks that they will need to do some tuning. Duh! Keeping in mind the 5 position adjuster offers NO Flex. Any flex is MORE flex. Seems obvious, just trying to give you a hint in how to set them up for your first go at it. You still have plenty of riding left in UT ? Get on it!! That Burner will "LIKE IT". Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Maybe I'll have to rethink my actions -- I followed Ronnie Carve Father and glued my locks down. They used to flip up when I lost the turn on a heelside, so I made sure they'd stay down. I like the softer ride but didn't realize some of the consequences. Enjoyed reading this thread, thanks, tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyride Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Course I only weigh 150, don't do much serious carving, and spend all my time in bumps and off piste. Haven't broke anything yet, and am riding Raichle 123's. I need the flex for hitting the troughs, launching from one bump to the next and for landings. Solution to keeping them in walk mode was high quality duct tape. If I didn't the lever would slip up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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