Jack M

that is one wild looking sidecut!

Yeah I don't have $2000 for a snowboard, guy!

Yes, although I would probably want to customize the waist width and sidecut radius. The stock shapes are 2-radius, with the longer radius in the tail, according to the website. I'd want a 3-radius sidecut like 12-14-13 or 11-13-12, nose-mid-tail. Of course this is just a keystroke for Sean. I'm also talking with him about a glass-carbon combo layup.

I agree, but I wasn't attributing it all to the nose. We just happen to be discussing nose decamber. Factory Prime retail history: 95 some sizes were maroon, others were gray, with a black pattern that sort of looked like an abstract tire track. 96 was silver with reddish-pink sidewalls 97 was blue with green sidewalls 98 was red with orange sidewalls 99 was yellow with red sidewalls. 00 was black with green sidewalls 01 was black. I forget the sidewalls. Maybe team boards were different.

Ok. I still disagree. Nose decamber fixes the fact that snowboards were previously designed basically in 2D. Exactly what happens at the point where the sidecut ends, the camber ends, and the nose upturn begins was previously either disregarded, or incompletely solved. The function of the nose of a snowboard used to be thought of similarly as the front end of a toboggan. The problem with that was, our toboggans need to function while tilted up on edge, and bent into a new shape. When tilted on edge, unfortunately the upturn of the nose becomes an active participant in the carve. The relatively tiny radius of the curve of a traditional nose upturn cannot possibly work in continuity with the rest of the sidecut. Nose decamber addresses this. So I don't think calling it prophylaxis is really fair. It is not a marketing gimmick. Skis and snowboards are finally working the way they should have been all along. Are you thinking of the yellow Coiler prototype I had you try? That board seemed like it had too much nose decamber. Of course there is a limit to the usefulness. I don't think the effect of nose rocker is so drastic that it gives false confidence. I think it is still pretty obvious when you are about to lose an edge. Furthermore, I really feel like nose rocker helps maintain edge hold that might have been lost on a traditional board. I would like to meet this superhero who can win WC races with a traditional board, no plate, stiff bindings, and ski boots, against the current competition. But that feedback is merely what is going on under the sharply upturned nose, not what the rest of the sidecut is doing. I don't find it necessary. Again though, there is a limit to how much decambering works well. All I can tell you is that stepping off a Madd 180 and onto an NSR 185 gave me an immediate sensation that the nose was "slicing" more cleanly. Had I never ridden a decambered nose, I would go right on believing nothing was wrong with my traditional board's nose. I used to love that board to death. Just like I used to love my red 1998 Factory Prime. But time marches on and things have gotten better, not worse.

Really awesome video production! May I share this on a photography forum I read? You're making the 7D & 60D look very good. Love the horizontal panning, looks like the camera was on a rail. Gotta admit though the soundtrack isn't doing it for me. How about some cool House music? Armin Van Buren? Telepopmusik?

Honestly I've never heard of any Silberpfeil owners who loved them. A good Madd 170 was a great board, but I want something wider and with some nose rocker.

Sounds like you're saying it's a band-aid? I would disagree with that. I'd say it's more like going from little or no front suspension to having a decent one. Are MTB/moto riders who grew up with inferior or no suspension better riders than those who did? Perhaps. But soon we will never know. I started my Brother-in-law on an old Rossi Throttle. Then I let him try my Coiler. Guess which one he likes better? Is this a bad thing? Will he ever become an expert carver? I think he could, and sooner on the Coiler, because the journey will be more enjoyable and inspiring. I don't think it's like that. On a board with full camber, the "design" of the upturned nose seems like a complete afterthought. A decambered (aka rockered) nose better marries the curve of the upturn with the curve the sidecut will be when the board is tipped up on edge. Like this: decambered nose: full camber: Look at the point where the nose of the board is actually engaged with the snow. It's very far up the nose. The abrupt upturn of a full camber nose participating in the carve really does not seem like a good thing to me. I actually went from riding the Madd 180 in the bottom picture to borrowing Ben's NSR 185 in the top picture. Mind = blown. Incidentally this is why I think the Rossignol Avenger Ti looks like a bad idea - full camber plus hammerhead? Guess they want that nose hook to be as close to the snow as possible! Like they want the nose to hook back up the hill! http://www.rossignol.com/US/US/avenger-82-ti-tpx_RA1EF01_product_ski-men-skis-all-mountain-frontside.html

What? No, I and plenty others have felt it first hand. Yes, in a bad way. To your legs in the form of upset and fatigue, and to the edge in the form of loss of grip. Of course there is a limit, and too much decambering can make the nose feel vague or even floppy. That limit also varies with board length. But done properly, a decambered nose wins every time, no question.

Geoff, you can just ride one of "your" Madd 170s, right? ;) Yeah, that's a bit different. Not true. Decambered nose is a huge benefit for freecarving. It aligns the upturn of the nose with the sidecut much better. The nose slices instead of plows. It also rides over ruts and bumps more smoothly.

It is the whole construction of course, metal + rubber + other stuff. For shorthand I just said metal.

Yeah, the description of the Proteus is what I'm looking for - "The Proteus is a carving machine designed for the expert rider who likes a board that gives back everything you give it. If you like a turn that ends with an explosion of energy that launches you through the air and into the next, this is one is for you." ...but it's metal. That does not seem to compute...? What's the deal here?

My 163 this year was about 9-11-10 and I loved it.

Bummer man, but no, your board is an inanimate object.

No that's a metal race board. I want something poppy with a bit of a tail hook. I'm thinking a glass/CF 171 with 12-14-13m nose-mid-tail VSR...? lowrider - lol, maybe!

This year I got a Coiler 163SL (21cm waist, 10-ish m VSR) to compliment my 171 Stubby (21cm, 14m) and 185 NSR (20cm, 16-ish m). The 163 was also needed because I had a feeling we would be dealing with a lot of ice this season, and we did. The metal 163 really made the season enjoyable. I was able to get carves done in less space and without going too fast, to make use of the reduced edge hold offered by the conditions. The metal construction gave me more grip than ever. So this got me thinking - I have a metal 163 for icy days, and a metal 185 with Boiler plate for the really good days when I want to haul-a on a smooth ride, so why do I need a metal 171 anymore? I'm thinking my next 171 will be glass, maybe with carbon fiber in there, for the days when conditions are good but for whatever reason I don't want to ride a long, plated board. One of the days I will never forget was the first time I tried a Donek FC 171, in 2001. I was blown away by the energy and rebound. I want that feeling back. So for me I think the perfect quiver might be: Short metal ice machine Medium glass hyperactive carver Long metal speed board with plate. Anyone go back to glass this year?

I rode asyms for 4 years. I think there are a few things we need to be honest about when waxing nostalgic for our old asyms. 1, almost any board and any technique works on good conditions. This is why I got hooked on carving on a 1989 Burton Safari Comp II, a board which by today's standards, royally sucks. And so did I. 2, an expert carver can have fun and make carving look good on almost any equipment. 3, the quickest most efficient way to move your mass across the board (or move the board under your mass) is in a straight line perpendicular to the board. This is why symmetrical boards are the standard. It was not an industry conspiracy to do away with extra tooling. If you like asyms and have fun riding them, that's great. But you could probably do better on a sym, IMO. More: http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/rise_fall.html

http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/cross_under.html

put your board on your kitchen floor. detune everything in front of the nose contact point that isn't touching the floor. you don't want the upturned nose trying to hook back uphill when your board is tilted up on edge.

Come now, nobody wants you to leave. A lot of people know who you are and what you have done. Don't worry about this, I've ridden with him, he rips.

I believe you when you say Jeff told you you were a Catek rep 4 years ago, I'm just saying that doesn't make you a Kessler rep now. Hell, I have a stronger claim to being a Kessler rep right now! :p Dude, this is not "behavior", this is a buddy calling you on your BS scorecard at the 19th hole. Take it as a good ribbing. I have a lot of respect for what you have done for alpine in the past. As for TT, he speaks for himself, but I can tell you he walks the walk on the steeps of Sugarloaf.

So, do I have this math right? Jeff verbally calling you the Aspen Catek "rep" 4 years ago + Catek's website (last updated 2008) saying they are the US Kessler distributor = you are the current Aspen Kessler rep? Come on man, we are not as stupid we look! By the way, there is no Kessler "distributor" in the US right now. All US dealers simply deal with Kessler directly.

I have too many problems with this video to list. For one thing at the beginning he gestures that you shouldn't rotate at the waist. But then that is exactly what he does. Also I really don't like the tail initiation. If he's having fun then great, but this technique will not help you when it's icy.

Poo, your quiver is sorely missing the 162.

there is a special place in hell for power clerks.