Phil

If you have never ridden a board with a waist width that size, make sure you try one first. I am similar in size to you and thought that super wide boards would be the way to go for my size 15's. I ended up spending a lot of money on boards that I did not like. It was not that they were not good boards, it is just that they are so cumbersome and feel slow edge to edge. Not to mention that you have to rethink how you are going to ride the bumps (if you are into that). Riding the troughs with a super wide stick is often not possible because the board does not fit, causing you to catch an edge on the outside mogul. Now I am back to riding boards with waists under 27cm. BTW, boards that wide generally cannot handle the stress of plates. I believe that is what Sean at Donek will tell you about his boards as well. The Tanker seems to be a tried and true choice for what you are looking for. Good luck. EDIT: I just saw that you were from MD. I apologize if we have met and I am not remembering. Feel free to try one of my boards sometime if you can make it up to Bear Creek.

Exactly. Dave, I think that yours is a moot point. It has nothing to do with the flat tail, but rather the kind of board that you will find a flat tail on. You could have rounded that tail as much as you want - it would still act the same. Flat tails are on race and alpine boards mostly. These boards are meant to carve. Beyond that, getting stuck in a turn is more the rider than the board. Impossible for who? Don't tell that to the guys that do switch bumps, rails and halfpipe on race boards with flat tails. Thank you Bobdea for being the voice of reason in this discussion. Stiffness, both longitudinal and torsional, sidecut (including taper, progressive, regressive, etc.) and transition zones are what make a board perform in the ways previously discussed. The square tail is a mental thing unless you are riding switch in deep snow. Even then it can be ridden, it is just a PITA.

That is kind of how if feel as well. As long as it is good equipment, it is like choosing between Coke or Pepsi. It is more about how the boot fits you and the binding fits the boot. Generally, there are a few binding/boot interfaces that don't work as well as others, but that is the exception, not the rule. On the other hand, with size 12.5's and a Malalo, you will most likely need binding with rotating highbacks to adjust for the forward angles you will most likely be running. If I am not mistaken, the three bindings discussed here all have rotating highbacks.

I still wish you guys the best in this. I welcome updates. No need to go to "off topic" about it. I never read the Off Topic forum and I am guessing that there are others who do not as well. This is definitely a snowboard related topic. Thanks.

My personal experience is that they run .5 to 1 size smaller than my street shoes. They do pack out a little. Edit - I missed that you were buying online.

I am with you. I was soooo disappointed about that.

I was thinking the same thing - it must be a Bomber sickness that we all share. The RS's have been different schemes of yellow for a while. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the yellow has been in use on the RS since the late '90's. I know that I still have a '99 hanging on the wall that is yellow and has the "conshox" outline, and I don't believe that was the first year that they were yellow. That was when they had square tails with aluminum protectors. As far as the wood grain, they had that 2 and 3 seasons ago ('04/05, and '05/06) One year was clear, the other year was a translucent yellow. This past year ('06/07 as you can still see in the Bomber store) it was solid yellow.

Somewhere around 14 out of 200,000 14/200,000 does not warrant changes in my mind This guy had already jumped this hit twice. There was not much calculation needed. He flew 110 feet on the injury run. That is not a miscalculation - that is someone going big. People who have been riding the park have either tried, or seen someone else try to go big. I have been stupid enough to try it myself. Sometimes I won, sometimes I lost. This was an example of someone trying to go big for whatever reason he had. That was not the resort's fault. "Industry experts at the trial testified that the building of the jump was consistent with best practices in the industry." Let me repeat: Saying that it is all about physics takes us away from the park. How many jumps have you hit? A seasoned park vet can look at a jump and tell if the takeoff and landing are right. Now because of liability, we have to measure, but when measured, it almost always confirms what a good builder already knows - one way or the other. Again, I rest my case at the fact that he jumped it twice before and still sailed 110 feet on the third try. I can't believe that this discussion is still going, but since it is, I'll gladly add my $0.02

An earlier post from Phil Fell.

As of April, I am offlicially no longer a company employee (and most likely never will be again, but you never know) I can say that I am not a big fan of Ski Liberty. I have yet to really enjoy the conditions there. I am sure that they have good conditions, I have just not really ever caught them. I would say that it is worth the extra mileage to hit up Roundtop. Roundtop almost always has decent conditions during the day. Evenings are hit or miss anywhere in the Mid Atlantic. I will miss Roundtop. I have put in over 1,000 days there! If and when I go back that direction, Roundtop WILL be the place that I revisit. As far as Utah, I have been there many times and every time I return, I am ready to get back to the fast and slick. Powder is fun, but I can only take so much of it.

Colleges with phys. ed. programs will usually offer a snowboarding program if presented with the opportunity. I have taught snowboarding for several colleges and continue to do so. It looks good on a resume and it brings in some $$ on the side. I would recommend it for any seasoned snowboard instructors who are into the academic thing.

A lot of hardbooters aren't aware of this. If they were, we would have a lot more expert hardbooters. I know these sound like fighting words, but that is not my intent. There is a lot more to racing (something of which I am not an expert) than the "tip it and rip it" style that most hardbooters employ. 1. The guy is an olympic athlete. 2. He knows more about edging on ice than most people here. 3. He knows more about angulation and body position than most people here. I believe that there are huge benefits of being a speed skater (and dancer) that will cross over to riding alpine and racing BX. He is a little guy, but I think that he will be pretty good.

That is just a three strap. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the O.P. was talking about a two strap with an extension off of the highback to lever against.

They used to have third straps. I don't know if anyone still does that. Burton used to make the exact highback that you are talking about. The highback had a bolt on arm that reached around the top of your boot. I do not know what it was called. Maybe check out Derf's catalog pages? My personal answer to this problem is to only buy bindings with lots of highback rotation adjustment.

Huh? Somebody told you wrong.;) Moguls seem to be the final frontier for both skiers and snowboarders. I think that skiers are able to "fake it" sooner than snowboarders, but that is just my opinion. On this forum, we seem to be keenly aware that the majority of snowboarders have not really come to understand or enjoy carving. In the same way, the majority of snowboarders have not really come to understand or enjoy nice round skidded turns. I would argue that carvers really struggle with this as well. IMO, the best way to navigate moguls is to get really good at really short radius, round skidded turns. This is true on both skis and snowboards. IMO it is equally difficult on both sets of gear to truly do short radius skidded turns well. As stated above, the stiffer the setup, the more difficult this becomes. Specifically, a torsionally soft board will twist into the bumps much better. However, it can be done on any setup by the right rider. Once you learn to do these turns well, it becomes a matter of understanding lines. As stated above, there are several lines you can take. Contrary to popular belief, snowboards can ride the troughs on the right bumps. Some bumps are too tight to fit a snowboard in the troughs - especially wide boards. I have found that anything over a 27cm waist gets a little unwieldy in the troughs. A race board, on the other hand, can usually navigate even the tightest bumps, but they are usually so torsionally stiff that they take more work. The main lines that people take are: riding the troughs, rounding the top third, and connecting the bridges (of course there are others as well). Each involve the same short radius turns, but where a lot of your flexion and extension on steep groomers translates into turn shape, it now translates into absorbtion as well. Active legs provide constant pressure on your edges - especially on the backs of the bumps (where some people tend to think that less, or no edging occurs). This technique will allow for speed control AND speed maintenance. As in carving, your movements should start at the board and move up (ankles, knees, hips). The tighter the line that you take, the less your upper body should move, because your body will be moving more directly down the hill. That should mean that your upper body faces the direction of your binding angles if your board were facing straight down the hill. This position will give you the greatest range of motion and the greatest ability to have active feet, knees, and hips. As you open your turns up in the moguls, your upper body will follow the board a little more instead of staying static down the fall line. On another note, if you were teaching someone to snowboard, would you teach them to swish their tail? I hope not. Swishing your tail is a crutch to use instead of good technique for beginning snowboarders as well as novice mogul riders. It wastes a lot of energy and efficiency and it never allows you to progress with more control. I don't think that it is a good idea to recommend tail swishing. That being said, there are thousands of people all over the world who thoroughly enjoy snowboarding - and they are tail swishers.:rolleyes: So, my answer to the original question would be - How can we get better at riding moguls? My A: Learn to do nice, round short radius turns and learn to use your legs to absorb bumps. Then combine the two. And, as always, take a lesson. :)

The info that I posted was from SAM magazine.

First of all, my condolences to Kenny S. The injury just sucks. I landed on my head off of a very big jump once (some might remember my avatar) and I feel very fortunate to be healthy today. I know that we all take our chances every time we go out. I get the feeling that the people that are saying that the resort is responsible are not avid park riders. Please correct me if I am wrong. It just seems that you guys aren't really familiar with how a park works. For example: This is what Kenny S. said as well. That is a terrible analogy and people who are adept at riding the park would be within their rights to be offended at such naivety. Any idiot with no skills whatsoever can go into an amusement park and ride relatively safely on the rides therein. A terrain park is totally different. Where amusement parks are full of rides where the participant is passive, terrain parks are full of features that are all about the participants doing the work and demonstrating the skill to use the feature (or lack thereof). So who can use the terrain park? Any idiot - the same as the amusement park, only it is assumed that they have the skill to use it. Truly, the park is more like street skating (which it is meant to emulate in many cases). In street skating, you find a feature and figure out how to conquer it. Remember, that is where rails come from. I have overshot jumps on a skateboard, bike, and inline skates, but I would never have blamed it on the builder of the jump - it was my miscalculation. This is all posted on the smartstyle sign when you enter the park. FREESTYLE TERRAIN MAY INCLUDE HALF-PIPES, AS WELL AS TERRAIN PARKS AND TERRAIN FEATURES. THEY ARE PROVIDED FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT AND OFFER ADVENTURE, CHALLENGE AND FUN. HOWEVER, FREESTYLE TERRAIN USE, LIKE ALL SKIING AND RIDING, EXPOSES YOU TO THE RISK OF SERIOUS INJURY. PRIOR TO USING FREESTYLE TERRAIN, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH ALL INSTRUCTIONS AND WARNINGS AND TO FOLLOW "YOUR RESPONSIBILITY CODE". Freestyle Terrain contains man-made and natural terrain variations. Freestyle Terrain changes constantly due to weather and use. Inspect Freestyle Terrain before using and throughout the day. In jumping and using this terrain, you assume the risk of serious injury. Be courteous and respect others. One user on a Terrain feature at a time. Never jump blindly - use a spotter when necessary. Look Before You Leap! It is your responsibility to control your body on the ground and in the air. Always clear the landing area quickly. Always ride or ski in control and within your ability. You decide - how many of these points did he violate? Terrain parks are not just amusement parks. EVERY feature has a target speed range. It is very hard for a resort to control your speed for you. Beginner and intermediate parks might have some sort of speed check system, but advanced parks should not. BTW, no speed check system will be 100% effective. Some people just have the need to "see what would happen if I hit that thing balls out". A target speed range should put you safely on and off of the feature. Too slow or too fast and you risk injury. As anyone who rides the park knows, coming up short injures many people as well. There are also a lot of injuries from people going too fast on rails with pitch changes or large drops. I know of a kid who did a large flat/down rail with FAR too much speed. He basically rode off of the flat and continued straight out a long way landing on the flat. It was a huge drop and he ended up pushing the head of his femur through his pelvis. This was not the resort's fault - he was going too fast for the feature. Anyone who rides the park knows that. Anyone who rides the park also has ridden jumps with landers that we feel are too short. Most reasonable people would either not use the jump, or correct their speed. Let's be honest - is there really any jump that we could not clear if we wanted - given the right conditions? There may be a few, but they are the exception, not the rule. About the situation at hand, here are my thoughts as a freestyle coach: "Salvini flew approximately 110 feet through the air and outjumped the landing. He reverse-rotated, landing on his neck and causing his injuries." I don't know how big the jump was, but I am guessing that it was nowhere near 110 feet. Who goes that fast? This was not a slight miscalculation, this was gross negligence for himself. Also - HE LANDED ON HIS HEAD!!!! If you land on your head, this injury could happen under just about any circumstances. How was landing on his head the fault of the resort? "In addition, 14 other skiers and snowboarders had sustained minor injuries by outjumping the landing on that feature earlier that season, and another suffered a broken back. However, those figures are out of more than 200,000 estimated takeoffs on the feature, including two by Salvini the previous week. " 14/200,000? So there were around 200,000 jumps that were "successful"? It sounds like a lot of people were doing it right. Kenny had already hit it twice. 110 feet is really far when you already know the speed with which you should hit the jump. Industry experts at the trial testified that the building of the jump was consistent with best practices in the industry. 'nuff said - seriously - 'nuff said. Again, I would like to know from those of you who say that the resort is at fault - what is your experience in the park?

Can you explain that, Jack, or am I opening a can of worms?

If anything happens to that board, Prior better honor the warranty! ;)

It was all very amusing. The replies that you got just go to show that some people don't get to spend enough time on their snowboards.

Maybe he meant Pedorthist..?

Whether you have problems or not, custom orthos are the way to go IMO. I have neutral feet, although you would not think so if you saw my gait. I run medical orthotics in all of my boots. They make a HUGE difference. From time to time, I have taken them out just to see the difference. A few runs later, I always end up taking a break to go put them back in. Medical orthos cost more, but you really should check with your insurance to see if they will cover them. Then you just have to talk your Dr. into prescribing them. My orthotist did both the impression foam and the computer model of my feet on different occasions (Dr. D posted pics of both). Then they took my boots and custom made the orthos to fit the boots and my feet. The problem with that is that when you get new boots, they have to be the same as the old ones. It may not be the end of the world if the boots are different, but I could tell the difference when I changed soft boots. For hardboots, I just keep buying UPZ and make the assumption that they don't change anything...I hope. All of the orthos that I have are the soft ones that Dr. D speaks of. My orthotist has my feet on file so that they can just make new orthos as needed, but they recommend that you go back in and do new impression foam or get scanned at least every five years because your feet do change.

I put in a lot of time on that board as well as the 183. The 173 was a little limp for my taste, but a blast to ride. The 183 on the other hand felt solid no matter what I did. I still have a buddy who rides the 173 and he rips on it. He loves that board. Tornado or not, the board that you pictured is the GS board. I think that they just dropped the name, but I could be wrong.

I just tell all of the scrappers to get out of my way. Of course, when I play basketball, I am a scrapper.;)

I have been a die hard F2 fan for about 10 years. If I had to choose only one board to be on (God forbid), I would stay on an F2 GS board. I am not thrilled about teaching on a GS board, though, so you will find my on an F2 SL board most of the time. They have been amazingly durable. I even used to do a lot of park and pipe lessons and clinics on my SL. In the last four or five years, I have tried to get away from teaching FS on race boards, but the F2's killed it in the park and pipe when they had to. Like almost all of my equipment, they break at some point, but typically, my F2 boards have outlasted every other kind of board that I have ridden. That brings me to my most recent exploit. My last day working at Ski Roundtop (after ten seasons), my F2 SL broke. I won't get into specifics because I have seen how the other threads have turned out. I will say that the warranty ended earlier this season so I really had no recourse. I had no expectations, but I called Michelle anyway because the worst that could happen was for Michelle or F2 to just say no. Michelle went to F2 (thanks Michelle) and F2 warrantied the board (thanks F2). Sweet. I am already in need of a GS board for next year - the last thing that I could afford is to have to replace 2 boards. Neither Michelle nor F2 had to do what they did. I would totally have understood if they would have told me I was SOL. I greatly appreciate what they did and it has just made me a more loyal customer.