Hassled by the man

[jtslalom]

When I first started riding in 1988 it seemed as though every ski patroler had it in for me and all the guys I rode with. I ride at a crowded New Jersey resort now called Mountain Creek (Vernon Valley/Great gorge back then). AS the years past it seemed as though the ski patrol and Safety rangers (ski patrol wanna bees)

gave us less and less hassles. Nowadays there seems to be a mutual respect between both snowboarders and ski patrol, at least I thought so. Every so often I will get pulled to the side of the slope by a ski patroller and get read the riot act on how to ride properly. Today was one of those days. I'm always amazed by this for I am the type of person who looks out for other people, will yield to any one else and always gives a hand to a beginer. I take my 5 & 7 year old nephews snowboarding and am overly cautious. I think some ski patrollers have never lost that mentality that the ski slopes are for skiers and snowboarders should just go away. Ofcourse this is the attitude of less than 1% of them but I must say one think to all less than 1% of them, $#@!you. You can only DREAM about making turns like snowboarders can. Too bad you never will.

[philfell]

I've had so many run-in that I can't even begin to start. A friend and myself were once told by a ski patroller that "we could give him ours passes now or he would call the cops on us". I've also been yelled at by a safty patroller, while I was being passed by a skier in a wedge tuck!!!!

[Phil]

I wish that our ski patrollers were more aggressive. Their attitude is that they are not police. Because of this, our mountain often becomes a crazy mess of "death bombers". Some days, I just stay off of the hill. When you are carving, you usually stay ahead of traffic, but I hate when you have a death bomber catching up to you that you have to avoid on every other turn.

[Mellow Yellow]

our mountain often becomes a crazy mess of "death bombers".

Seven Springs can be the same way at times.....must be a PA thing....one question.....do most of your "Death Bombers" wear carhartts and steeler jackets?!?!

ours do!:rolleyes:

[Phil]

Steelers? Of course not! Ravens and Eagles Jackets. O.K., maybe an occasional Steelers jacket. It is better than at Greek Peak, NY, where I consistantly spotted fluorescent orangecamo. Just imagine, hunting and death bombing on skis all possible in the same day.

[sic t 2]

I was at Mountain Creek from 9 to 12 today and was bombing everything. Ok, that slow sign (with the ambassador pointing at us to slow down) on Bear was a surprise at first but after I carved around him a few times no more hassle.

However, last year I was followed down by two patrollers (medics) on Bear peak and they proceeded, not only to stop me, but bring me into their hut for a "good talking to". They explained that they would love to have someone who could board like me on the Mountain Creek Ski Patrol and wanted me to take the October medical courses. I thought about it then declined. I'm too old for that job. I defer to the young men here.

Yeah, they are all real bastards there. I don't know what their problem is.

sic t 2

[eddie]

I have had my share of passes pulled.

[Guest jeremiah]

I have yet to have a pass pulled, but I came pretty close Saturday. Riding with a skier friend, flopping Euro carves at the outrun of Fallen Timbers at Mount Snow, and decided to see if I could pull a 360 degree carve. Checked up the mountain, went over hard to toeside, and clipped the patroller as I was heading directly up the mountain. He didn't fall, I didn't slide out, and I let him chastise me for a minute, apologized, and got on the lift before he could decide to pull my pass. My skier buddy said it looked really cool though, because the patroller obviously was not expecting someone coming up the hill at him.

Jeremiah

[Jack M]

Originally posted by jeremiah

I have yet to have a pass pulled, but I came pretty close Saturday. Riding with a skier friend, flopping Euro carves at the outrun of Fallen Timbers at Mount Snow, and decided to see if I could pull a 360 degree carve. Checked up the mountain, went over hard to toeside, and clipped the patroller as I was heading directly up the mountain. He didn't fall, I didn't slide out, and I let him chastise me for a minute, apologized, and got on the lift before he could decide to pull my pass. My skier buddy said it looked really cool though, because the patroller obviously was not expecting someone coming up the hill at him.

This patroller is a fool, and you should bring him to his manager. It was his responsibility to avoid you, as you were the downhill skier, at least it sounds that way.

Also, if there is <i>any</i> doubt as to who's fault it was, <i>never</i> apologize. It is an admission of guilt, and it can make the other party start think about how they should penalize you.

-Jack

[Shred Gruumer]

, if there is any doubt as to who's fault it was, never apologize. It is an admission of guilt

Dats for dam sure! I never apologize for my faults no matter how obvious day are, its alway my parents fault that Im this way! Hey I didn't mix those DNA straids , they did!

Its your fault if I punch you in da face! I can't help dat , so ciety made me dat whey!

Right said Shred:D

[Guest OlderBoarder]

last tuesday evening i was near the bottom of connifer connection at wachusett, when a patroller(sic) stepped out of the shadows, waving his arms wildly, literally screaming at me to slow down. there wasn't another person in sight on the slope, so i knew he meant me. i kinda shrugged at him, and continued on my way. moments after stopping and stepping out of my rear binding, the patroller skids to a halt next to me, cordless drill w/4ft bit(really!) in hand, and commands me to "step over here for a moment so i can talk to you". i comply, and he starts in about my excessive speed on a family trail and how he should pull my pass. i removed my face protection to clue him in to the fact that i was older than him. that quieted him down just a bit. i then rebutted all his ranting with the facts; that there was no one else in sight, i was at the bottom of the run where it starts to flatten out, and there was a steady headwind. i also suggested we find his boss if he wanted to continue the "discussion". after a moment of thought, he reminded me in a much calmer voice that there had been a skier fatality there last week, and they are looking to make exampless of fast or reckless people. i told him i didn't envy his job, thanked him for his concern, and we parted company. remember: the art of diplomacy is sometimes being able to tell someone to go to hell, and have them look forward to the trip!

[Jack M]

This all reminds me of my favorite term for these types of people - power clerks - automatons with menial jobs who can ruin your day, and relish the opportunity. (or in the case of a ski patroller, someone who has an otherwise important job but has been assigned a menial task, and is wielding their power to the limit of their leash.)

[Corey]

I had a patroller come over and scream and yell at my friend and I about going out of bounds. We looked at each other wondering what he was talking about. We hadn't be out of bounds, but he was quite certain we were the culprits. In reality, there is no real way to ride out of bounds in our area as the willow trees grow about 3-4 inches apart. If they haven't mowed down the trees, you're not going anywhere!

In the end, we lost our lift tickets at about 11:00 AM. We learned that you cannot change a ski patrollers decision. :(

It was a small resort, we never saw that patroller again. I guess the right people saw that he was a 'Power Clerk'. Thanks for the new term!

[sic t 2]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

This patroller is a fool, and you should bring him to his manager. It was his responsibility to avoid you, as you were the downhill skier, at least it sounds that way.

Ok, let me get this straight: so now we can drive the wrong way on a one-way-street? Isn't it amazing how sometimes the simplest, most common sense rules (that have remained unspoken, yet effective since the beginning of time) are a still a challenge to some of us.

Jack, sometimes even the best of us have a bad "thought" day. I think you just had yours. But we still love you.

sic t 2

[Jack M]

Originally posted by sic t 2

Ok, let me get this straight: so now we can drive the wrong way on a one-way-street? Isn't it amazing how sometimes the simplest, most common sense rules (that have remained unspoken, yet effective since the beginning of time) are a still a challenge to some of us.

Jack, sometimes even the best of us have a bad "thought" day. I think you just had yours. But we still love you.

sic t 2

Since when are ski slopes one way? Is a skier not allowed to hike back uphill if they drop a pole? And how is someone making a eurocarve below you <i>not</i> considered the downhill skier??

You are confusing skiing with driving a car, where you have 3 rear-view mirrors, and you have the responsibility to check them before making a lane change. A ski slope is more like a racetrack than a highway, believe it or not.

There is nothing anywhere in the Skier's Responsibility Code that says that a downhill skier <i>under way</i> has any responsibility to watch out for the people <i>above</i>. In fact, codes #1 and #2 solidify the patroller's fault quite nicely. The downhill skier has right of way, period. Think about it and get back to me.

[Tommy D]

Not to hijack this thread, but I noticed something at Stratton that surprised me: The Skier Responsibility Code is back on the napkins!!!

It is about time. I've been missing those napkins for YEARS. Of course, these don't have the funny comic pictures, but it's a step in the right direction.

Okay. Hijacking complete.

[chris_eco]

As punishment for wearing snow blades clipped to my UPS boots (while teaching my son to ski) I got hit by a snowboarder Sunday.

Green run- hit from behind on the right side - I was the downhill skier - knocked me down and then slid into my kid - thankfully didn't slam junior - since I absorbed the impact.

He was a regular foot rider obviously skidding a toe edge and going way too fast for his ability.

Said he "didn't see me."

I give him a tongue lashing about taking a lesson and how he has violated two sections of the skiers' responsibility code when his Dad skis up and "wants to know what happened." When I tell him he turns to the kid (who is now smiling) and says "Is that what happened?" the kid nods and Dad says "well as long as no one was hurt." They turn to leave.

I stopped them and explained to them that I thought it was appropriate for the kid to apologize. They both apologized and I again suggested that for safety and greater enjoyment of the sport that the kid take a lesson.

I have had my ticket clipped and was once escorted to the parking lot (at Loveland) for "speeding." I tried arguing that I was in control and was told something to the effect of... the run I was on wasn't a race course. Pissed me off at the time but it got me into racing and hard booting.

I seriously considered radioing patrol and kicking the kid off the mountain to "teach 'em a lesson" especially since I had to practically demand an apology even though I was wearing an instructor's jacket.

Then I get to go join the debate about why our little ski area should bother building a terrain park.

Totally %^$@ing ironic - just had to rant

[Guest dragonfly jones]

C-Eco you alright man? That stuff is scary. You should tongue lashed his as you did, the took your glove off, slapped him with it then challenged his puck ass to a duel!

Then we could all have raised our pimp cups and cheered for my man on the east coast!

Chuck B

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

Also, if there is <i>any</i> doubt as to who's fault it was, <i>never</i> apologize. It is an admission of guilt, and it can make the other party start think about how they should penalize you.

Sorry, that's just not possible for us Canadians.

Apologetically,

Neil

[Guest deanj]

Originally posted by chris_eco

Then I get to go join the debate about why our little ski area should bother building a terrain park.

<RANT>

(Yes I know this has been hashed over many many times)

Probably the best thing our little hill did... (Put in a terrain park) Early in the season, before the terriain park is open you put your life on the line every run. A mad posse of jibbers bombing or merging onto runs at mach 5. The ski patrol does nothing, well almost nothing -- They put up a few gates to keep them from merging and hitting a jump, but it didn't help. Honest, the kids just went *around* the guy putting the gates in place, to them it was just more terrain.

I've never seen our patrol yell at anyone for doing anything. And there are some major dumb-asses out there.

Mind you, even with the jib heaven I still have to be very careful every run. Which sucks, its hard to be agressive when you are afraid at any moment someone is going to clip you. I have had far too many close calls with instructors and Ski Challange folks to count. And the usual response is a) a dirty look, or b) a suprised look as in "Where did you come from?" Not to pick on the skiiers, we have some very talented skiiers, but I swear they have blinders on. They can carve on their skis but just buzz off the lift and have awareness of only the 20 foot wide swath they plan on skiiing...

Don't even start me on the strange fact that we alpiners wait for a slot in the hill, and the moment we start everyone else waiting up to trails us. ARRGGGG!!!

</RANT>

On the other hand, Sunday we were the only guys on the hill. 0F and a nice wind chill tends to do that... :-)

Thanks - I feel better... (Until tonight when I get shadowed or cut off again...)

-D

[Guest jeremiah]

I don't think I was clear enough. I probably deserved to get my pass pulled, since I was doing something unexpected, and hadn't verified 100% that the coast was clear. If the patroller had pulled my pass, I would have sucked it up, politely handed him my pass, and called it a day.

I've always believed that you can't take the right of way, only yield it. (Plus, since I was going up the mountain, the patroller was in front of my, so I should yield.)

Jeremiah

will go toeside next time

[Jack M]

they can't pull your pass unless you're violating one of the responsibility codes, which it sounds like you weren't.

are you proposing we all wear those little bicycle rearview mirrors on our helmets? it's nobody's job to know what people are doing behind them before making a turn. now, if the patroller was next to you on the hill and you turned into him, that's a different story.

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

they can't pull your pass unless you're violating one of the responsibility codes, which it sounds like you weren't.

That depends on what the responsibility code says. A quick bit of googling indicates that there are two different wordings of the relevant rule:

<i>"People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them."</i>

and

<i>"When skiing downhill or overtaking another skier, you must avoid the skier below you."</i>

If the first wording applies you have an unresolved situation, as both the uphill and downhill person are ahead of each other. Both of them have the right of way, and yet both of them must yield. It doesn't make sense.

If the second wording applies, the person doing the 360 is in the clear.

In general, I get very pissed off with people who crash into me from above, but I would make an exception if I was doing a 360 as it's such an exceptional thing to do. I do like to do 360s around a sitting person though - that really makes 'em sit up and pay attention.

[sic t 2]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

Since when are ski slopes one way?

Someday, when you are an old, old man, you will look back on your life and think about all the dumb things you ever said or did in your lifetime. And when that day comes you will find that the above quote, from the 2004 season, is #1 on your "said" list.

A ski slope is more like a racetrack than a highway...

I'm really glad you brought up racing and compared it to recreational skiing. Because racing is my life from mid March through October. Clearly this is a subject you know very little about. For example; noone goes BACKWARDS on a race track. In fact it is so plainly UNTHINKABLE that there is no reason to put it in our rules book:

http://www.mscmotocross.com/d34_2002_rulebook.htm

(server is down right now but should be up by a.m.)

I would like to add that "riding uphill into oncoming traffic" is clearly not in the Skier's Responsibility code for two reasons: #1 it would comical to have such a statement in there and #2 until a decade ago it was "technically not really possible". So, here is a case where perhaps you should petition the committee that issues this code so that you can have an 11th code added: Though Shalt Not Shat On The Lord Thy Gods Warped-Space Anomalies.

Secondly, in racing the lead racer does have the right of way, as long as, the move is not "overly aggressive". On a more personal note (ie; use common sense) you don't do anything overly aggressive on a race track because the chances are great that even if you are 100% in the right you will still wind up sitting on the side of your track staring at your pale white femur bone and the big hole it made in your pants on the way out. So we purposely crowd out riders coming up on us (this is true) but it is done carefully in order to avoid personal pain and death. And "hooking a berm" and reversing direction on the track (and then citing the abscence of this rule in our official book) would definitely get you the horses ass award on race day. So the whole "racing analogy" thing is a red herring.

We still love you Jack and you are one hell of a bright guy. Big fan of your technical articles. Say, pulled a nice 360 myself this morning too. And I love the way it scares the pants right off the spodes when you come straight back up the hill right at them. And that's the best part of it for sure. On that I hope we can agree. Otherwise I exit this thread for good now. I don't really feel good beating up on such a great contributor to this site. But its just the internet. No big deal.

Sic t 2

http://www.acemotocross.com/closeparty_2003/Pb010031.jpg