chadx Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hi all, I hope to have the Thermoflex liner, in my new Suzukas, shaped by a pro, but am considering doing it myself. I've read all the detailed "how to" and the "at your own risk" warnings. How many of you shaped the liner yourself and how many had a pro do it? Also, the new liner seems fairly thin. One person (that does NOT use thermoflex liners, I might add) told me that when they are warmed up, the liner actually puffs up, somewhat similar to a marshmallow in a microwave. No, he didn't mean gooey and delicious, he just meant the liner thickness will expand, therefor there will be more for your foot to compress. Does that sound correct? Or will they stay about the same thickness when heated. I'm not going for a custom footbed at this time, but will go with a superfeet liner. I love them in all my hiking and winter boots. I was going to use the green sports one, but now see they have a Wintergreen colored one that they say is more appropriate for ski/snowboard boots so I will likely go with that one. Anyone with experience molding their own (good or bad experiences) or any advice (like "don't do it!" or "do it! It's not a big deal") would be appreciated. The "shell test" everywhere says one and a half to two fingers behind your heal in the bare shell. I have super thin fingers and everyone is different, so can anyone give an actual inches or CM measurement that I can use as a guide? I want to ensure the shell is the right size from the start. My feet measure 27.2cm and my new boots are mondo 27. Thanks! Chad (I'll be out of town for a couple days, but look forward to reading the string upon my return). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 If you are capable of following directions to the letter (many people are not), you can do it yourself. Here are some good directions for home molding: http://www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_cooking.htm Even if you screw it up, you can remold them like 6 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Just FOLLOW DIRECTIONS, as Jack says. I've done three pairs. with good luck. The one pair I had done in a shop were ruined. They told me it was a convection oven--it was not. They also set the temp. way too high and melted the cuff pretty much off one liner Real pros It good to have someone to help hold the shell open because the liner will puff up a fair amount. The idea of slipping a nylon stocking over the liner before you put your foot in the boot is very helpful. Also do the toe cap thing to give your toes room to move later, otherwise the fit will be very snug. My feet measure about 27.3 and I fit in 27's just fine. I think if you go bigger you'll find the boot will feel sloppy later. Good Luck Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/search.php?searchid=34747 of just search titles only for thermoflex. probably one of the most talked about topics on here besides "which board/bindings/boots" :) oh, and...I've done a few pairs myself...was unimpressed with the "pro" fit I got in Bend...just seemed that the dude didnt care that much, and $30 was a stupid price to pay for it. so the next time I did em myself on a different pair, then did my gfs, then did a pair of the freestyle version all seemed to come out fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 The directions link Jack posted are simple and if you SHUT OFF the oven its almost impossible to wreck the liners. Give it a shot for your self 1 time. If it does not work bring it to a shop. Remember the Toe cap, its a Must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotts.Scheinman Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 go to viking ski shoppe on fullerton ave. worth the trip!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Wouldn't it be better to tape the foot bed to the bottom of your socked foot instead of putting in on under the sock per directions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Depends on the footbeds.... My superfeet footbeds have a plastic heel piece that would surely rip the hot liner if nothing was placed over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Which Superfeet foot beds are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy S. Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 I would never attempt to do it myself. A six pack is a cheap price to pay to get the shop guys to do it for me. Like they say, " you get what you pay for". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Just got my intuition liners today.. so all this info is helpful but you guys make it sound like its rocket science! Im sure its not as I have done theromoflex years ago..and I don't remeber it as bieng as hard as assembling my taiwan coffe table... Stop scaring me! Right said Shred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 I had my first real thermoflex liners molded at a place in Tahoe near Squaw Valley that everyone raved about. "Ask for so and so, he's the best". After spending about two hours there and something like $40, I came out with boots that fit decently, but were still pretty uncomfortable. Later I molded them myself using some instructions from (I think) Dave Morgan, and they were 100% better. I don't know what went wrong, probably just the luck of the draw, but I'll never pay someone else to do them again unless I need the shells expanded or new footbeds. I could have taken them back for another fitting, but they felt so good after I did them myself I didn't see the need. You have to be sure that the liners are heated evenly and completely, to just the right temp. A six pack? Funny, no one ever tried to pay me for flying lessons with beer It would have been an improvement over the $11 an hour I was getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 A six pack goes a long way when it comes to favors. Amazing how spending 5-8 bucks on a six pack replaces a charge of $40 in a ski shop for example. A local guy taught me how to wax/tune my board for a six pack of Sam Adams. Awesome! It really depends on the shop/person though as I'm sure you can run into some that will be against it. Shred-don't be intimidated about molding your liners. It's really not that hard to do and the only thing that can really go wrong is overcooking them (which is hard to do-especially if you turn off your oven). Outside of that you just have to be careful not to tear them when inserting them into the shells but a good duct tape job should take all of the worries out of that. Steve-the six pack woulda came in handy for the trip back to the ski shop to get them to fix those boots correctly for you... Serious-here's my footbed. That plastic piece is pretty pointy and sharp so inside the sock it went (just to be sure). Wish me luck I'm about to mold some as we speak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubz Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 I home molded mine tonight under the link from Jack, went very easily and I will be interested in how they work. I'll report back and let you know. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest owaysys Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 I had mine fit by a guy who has been fitting Raichle liners for ski and snowboard boots for about as long as they've been available. Some tips if you're doing it yourself, or things to make sure the guy at the shop does: 1. Use a plastic toe cap- This will ensure that you have enough room to move your toes after the liners has cooled down. The way I did it was to place the toe cap over my bare toes, then put a very thin sock (like a dress sock) over my foot to hold the toe cap in place. You don't want to wear a thick sock for this, as it will screw up the volume of the liner fit and then your foot will slide around inside it once it's cooled. 2. Have some help you- when the liner has reached the correct temperature in the oven, you want to get it out of the oven, onto your foot, and into the shell as quickly as possible. Having a second set of hands to help you into the shell, etc. is very helpful. Make sure the put your superfeet liner into the shell before you put your foot into it. DO NOT put the superfeet liner in the oven with the liner. If you do, you'll end up with a mess. 3. Once you get your foot into the liner and the liner into the boot, buckly the boot tightly and stand up with most of your weight on the foot, with weight evenly distributed over the length of your foot (don't put all your weight on the ball of your foot or you heel - keep it even). 4. While you're standing, use the thumbs and forefingers on both hands and lightly pull up on the back of the liner cuff (behind your calf). This will ensure that the liner doesn't end up with any wrinkles in it. 5. Wait for about 10 minutes before you take the weight off your foot. If you don't wait for the liner to cool, it won't fit right. 6. Once you're done fitting both boots, try them on with your regular snowboard socks. If they don't fit right, you can just re-heat them and fit them again. Always good to check this before you put all of the equipment away. 7. Since you can refit the liners, you can always refit if/when you get orthotics. Hope this helps Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 The best molding job and the worst molding job I've had were both done by a pro. I was not altogether unhappy with the 1st pro job I had done (Sam Bennett's, Portland - no longer in business), they tightened the boots too much during the molding process and had me carve out too much room in the heel, and I wound up with massive heel lift and cramped feet due to having to overtighten the buckles to make up for too much volume in the boot. I had watched carefully and decided to try my luck at home (it was an hour drive back to Sam Bennett's and I figured I could go back if I was unsuccessful). I fashioned the washcloth toe-cap and it worked quite well. I wound up remolding a few times on that pair due to pack out (probably a result of the first mold compressing the liner so much?) and wound up going through two pairs of boots in subsequent years (broke two shells, different spots, result of crashes... no more SB series for me!) This year I bought a new pair of Suzukas and decided it was time for new footbeds. I had those done by Randall Barna @ Footform (www.footform.com - local here in Bend) and while I was there I had hiom do my liners. He did a better job than I possibly could. It was the little things - knowing how much padding to put on my hot spots, knowing just how much to tighten the buckles duriung molding, knowing exactly what position to have me stand in and how much to flex various things to carve out a good heel cup. He's not a 6-pack kind of guy, but as Randy says "you get what you pay for". (He's a pedorthist - if he's not molding liners, he might be fitting orthotics, it's no surprise that his time costs some $$) Summary: I believe that with observation and pratice, one *can* do a very good job, if you want an Excellent job you will probably have to get professional help (or learn and practice enough to be a professional yourself ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadx Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thanks, everyone, for the great replies. All that info seemed more up to date than what I was finding with my previous searches (most of those discussions were from 2004. The newer ones seemed to be more about thermoflex liners fitting in burton boots, etc. rather than fitting). Though much of that 2004 info was still valid, the replies to this post seemed to have additional info. Thanks! The one item I still have questions about is the 'shell test'. Everything says 1 to 2 fingers. But since everyone has different size fingers, how can that be accurate? Anyone hear of an actual measurement that I can use for the shell test? I have thin fingers and while my feet both measure 27.2cm, in my Suzukas, Mondo 27, I have slightly over 2 fingers width between my heel and the back of the boot. According to most of what I've read, that means I should go with a shell that is mondo 26, yet mondo 26 is supposed to only be for 26.0 to 26.9cm feet and mine are .3cm more than that. Or is that meaningless? Again, I have thin fingers. I can see how someone with medium sized fingers would be a 'tight two fingers' or someone with real meat-hooks could be slightly over 1 finger, in the same amount of space. I'm just looking for a measurement point rather than using some human body part for a measuring stick. After all, "A tree as big as your waist" could be 32 inches or 64 inches depending on who your are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 The one item I still have questions about is the 'shell test'. Everything says 1 to 2 fingers. But since everyone has different size fingers, how can that be accurate? Anyone hear of an actual measurement that I can use for the shell test? I have thin fingers and while my feet both measure 27.2cm, in my Suzukas, Mondo 27, I have slightly over 2 fingers width between my heel and the back of the boot. According to most of what I've read, that means I should go with a shell that is mondo 26, yet mondo 26 is supposed to only be for 26.0 to 26.9cm feet and mine are .3cm more than that. Or is that meaningless? Just as an example... I have medium sized fingers, my longer foot measures 26.8 or so, and the shell test says that a 26 would be too big for me. And it's right - I am much more comfy in a 25. I've always guessed that it has to do with the fact that my toe sweep matches up almost perfectly with the insider of a Raichle/Deeluxe shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Serious-here's my footbed. That plastic piece is pretty pointy and sharp so inside the sock it went (just to be sure). Are you worried that the sharp bottom of the footbed will wear through the bottom of the Thermoflex liner with use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 It hasn't yet so I'm not too worried. Also I molded them with them directly in the liners w/o a problem so I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pushee Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 The original liners in my SB225s (MP 25.5) have been used hard over the years, and had seriously packed out - they were cold and uncomfortable. I finally bit the bullet and coughed up the dough for Deeluxe Speed liners (MP 25). I wondered if these would fit - my longer foot measures 25.8 cm. It was with some trepidation that I attempted to mold my liners. I started by printing out the yyzcanuck directions on molding. I then read them carefully a couple of times. My wife was kind enough to donate some scraps of quilt batting (used about 3 layers and small bits of duct tape to build a toe cap). She also provided some used knee-highs to pull over the foot/liner combo for insertion into shell. I really couldn't bring myself to believe that I needed to preheat the oven to 250F, and so I set it to 225. I then turned off the oven, tossed the right liner in, and set a timer for 9 minutes. I thought the molding went well, but the liner didn't expand as much as directions seemed to indicate. For the left foot, I increased the temp to 250. Sure enough, the liner puffed up more. After the molding was complete, both boots felt great. When I actually went riding, it became evident that the right boot (lower temp) did not have a good heel pocket. The left boot was perfect. I have since remolded the right liner and the heel pocket is much better. These are such an improvement (even after the initial attempt) over the old standard liners that I wish I had taken this step long ago. Some notes and learnings: 1. Pay close attention to how the liners wrap before you cook. When they do puff up, the correct wrap may no longer be evident. 2. The toe cap and padding between toes gets to be a bit uncomfortable during the 15 minute cool-down period, but its worth it in the end. 3. The cooking process does release odors - turn on the hood fan - especially if the wife is around when you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Donnelly Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 If you happen to have a digital thermometer like these http://www.ikitchenandhome.com/marechwititr.html you can get an accurate reading of your oven temperature. I received the remote unit for Christmas to monitor meats while in the smoker; elimiantes the guess work. Found our oven over heated by 15* then dropped 5* below the set temperature ~ 20* range. Could be normal, but being the control freak . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Quick question: Last time I molded mine in a gas oven (burners were on the bottom with metal covering them) and I decided to leave the oven on. I used a thermometer that hangs from one of the oven racks. I stabilized the temp around 255 deg F before I even started; checked it often for spikes/drops. Again I never turned the oven off. I didn't have any problems at all and they molded fine but I was wondering if it's ok to leave the oven on if it is not electric and the heat doesn't somehow hit the liner directly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseman Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Again, I have thin fingers. I can see how someone with medium sized fingers would be a 'tight two fingers' or someone with real meat-hooks could be slightly over 1 finger, in the same amount of space. I'm just looking for a measurement point rather than using some human body part for a measuring stick. After all, "A tree as big as your waist" could be 32 inches or 64 inches depending on who your are. I was in this position last year and decided that a little over two fingers was ok since I had thin fingers. And why wouldn't a 26 be right when my feet measured 26.5. Turns out I was wrong. Can't tell you what's right for you, but in the future I will trust the test. And then trust a bootfitter to fine tune it if necessary. I know it's a drag if you already have the product in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.