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get new people into this sport!


bobdea

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this has come up a few times from a few people including myself, I feel that if a bunch of us put a little effort into getting more people into the sport it could help it grow.

my basic idea is to get a few of us that have the extra gear and in the same general area to build some sort of access to entry level gear with out the person wanting to give alpine a try a chance with out having to either buy the gear or go to the ECES or SES since not everyone is close to the site of either event, it does not fit their schedule or budget.

with a few of us that are gear junkies a pretty wide range of gear that would suit most people well would be available.

people could either find someone to take them out here or it could be a place to find loner gear for people we already know.

Basically what it would take is a few people willing to loan out gear mostly boots in the smaller sizes and boards in the smaller sizes as well, and people willing to take a day to help a noob get turning

I have a pile of gear here including some boots in the 23 range and a couple small decks from 151 on up

any ideas are welcome as well as if anyone would want to set up days this coming winter that possibly we could get groups of people new to this sport together

I know that anything having to do with getting new people on the snow is at least a month away but the earlier we think about this sort of stuff the better it comes together when the time comes.

anyway, I hope there are some likeminded folks out there :)

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Last season I got a number of requests for lessons from people who had never tried hardbooting before but had seen me out on the hill and wanted to try it. Of course, they never had any equipment to try it on, so I always loaned them my extra setup. Sometimes they used rental ski boots since mine were the wrong size, but it still gave them an idea of what it's like. Every one of them loved the hardboot experience, and they all asked about where they could find equipment.

I also gave someone my old Burton boots for free. I saw him trying to ride with telemark boots and figured that probably wasn't the best tool for the job. It turns out that his feet were the right size, so I gave him my boots.

Ok, that's enough back patting for now.

Seriously though, Bob does have a point. Having equipment readily available to try out does make a pretty big difference in how many people try the sport. It also helps to ditch the superior and often cliquey attitude, but that's a topic for another thread.

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I've contemplated this idea as well, and so far have yet to come up with an easy solution to the problem of equipment needs. I will be carrying an extra set of boots and a board with regular bindings this year for just such an occassion, but it will be pretty limited especially with all the variations in boot sizes. I think the idea of people using ski boots is good, especially since they're available at almost any resort/mountain, but do you then run the risk of liability issues if you get someone to "rent" boots to ride your loaner equipment and they end up getting hurt? I strongly believe that if equipment were more readily available you'd get more people trying alpine as an alternative to skiing and softbooting. Doneks Pilot board is a great effort towards getting entry level people involved at an affordable price, but you still have to address the binding/boot issue. Seems to me that a "package" would be the way to go, but how to put it together and with what I don't know. We have a huge number of hardbooters at our local mountain in the High School ranks and these kids are riding just about anything they can get their hands on. I've been fortunate enough this year to offer my boards to the local High Schoolers in my area, but still find that even with my connections it's not easy to get parents or teenagers to spend $250-$350 for a set-up that would normally cost them $500-$700 depending on equipment choices. It'd be nice to have a program were all the riders were on equal or identical equipment (kinda like what they did in the IROC series) and let the talents of each individual be the deciding factor come race day. I'm kinda working on something that might bring a line of boards to market that would be affordable, but right now it's just a pipe dream. If the planets align and everything goes without a hitch you might see "ar(angel" alpine boards someday, but for now it remains my wish. My 10 year old son will be going into his 3rd season on hardboots and I'm also getting my 11 year old daughter on a alpine rig this year, but I'd like to make more of an impact if possible. I've supplied 3 local racers with their first alpine boards already this year and hope to up that number before the season starts. If we could just prove to the big name manufacturers that there is still a market for this sport maybe they'd get involved again, but that too seems to be wishful thinking on my part. Keep the faith people, we will prevail!!! :biggthump

Have fun,

Paul

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Guest mphdemon

All I've got is a spare board (no bindings or boots). But I'm def willing to let people use it if it will get them to join the sport. I think it would be great if we could get some kind of club/group of people that can just cruz together at different mountains.

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the size 23s the riders would have to provide some footbeds for.

For boards there is a FP 151 with burton stepins that has been ridden once so its like new a generics 159 and a FP 167 that are all boards I will loan out I have a couple more pairs of plates around but I gotta find 'em before I offer them

The 151 and the boots I would like to see come back in a similar condition as they left, I had bought them for my girlfriend at the time but she ended up going to a place with no snow for a year, so I guess what I am saying is that as long as whoever rides that gear is resposnable it should work out.

the 159 can come back in two peices or be given to someone who enjoys it, actually you can have it and the bindings I got with it.

the 167 is my early/late season beater so its not earth shatering if something happens to that one either.

If anyone that can wear a 28 wants to ride with me I can put them in my back up boots on any of the boards above plus some of my boards that I ride, its just that the boards I have use for I want to be around when they are in use, the same goes for the boots that fit me.

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where do you ride?

for me its gonna be wachusset this winter but I will for sure try to get to sunnapee a couple times as well, so its very possible that we could hook up sometime if either of those places work out for you.

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I think this is definitely a good thing, but easier said than done. I am a member of a meetup.com group that has 160 registered riders (although I'm convinced there are only about 10 serious riders) and in my intro I wrote that anyone that wants to try a carving board (my old Alp) is more than welcome to as long as they're not too big for it. The boots, I agree, are a trickier situation. I think one of the best and most effective ways to bring new people in is to ride well. Good alpine riders turn heads (esp. at places where they are less common). Certainly caught my attention. That and if someone does ask about it, just be cool. We are all really passionate about riding plates but some of us are like alpine evangilists, lol.

Noah, have some Raichle M23s for sale if you want, maybe 10 days use on them? Have footbeds too.

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I'm doing my bit this winter. The roommates boyfriend wants to learn to snowboard, and has ski boots, so I'm loaning him one of my boards (start as you mean to go on ...)

I'm hopeful on the day that he goes for his lesson, my other half might get enthused and keep him company. He keeps saying he will, but as it turns out, always ends up borrowing my snowblades instead!! :mad:

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that is one of the reasons I would like to get a few people interested so there is some sort of network so when the few people do want to try it the proper gear is available without making them have to commit to buying it

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Guest Randy S.

Two seasons ago we kind of started this in Tahoe. I have a bunch of stuff in my collection (some mine, some donated to the cause - Thanks Tony Swei) including some old TD1's, boards and boots to fit a small size range. Anyone on the North Shore of Tahoe is welcome to borrow any weekend. Most weekends I'm around the cabin and can get them set up.

Having "business cards" like the ones we got with our Bomber Butter is helpful. I usually have some Tahoecarvers ones in my coat pocket to give to people who are interested. That way they can remember the web site to go to when they get home after talking with you on the lift.

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I've been working on a local ski/board shop owner. He already owns a Burton Alp and all the gear. He's a skier who is reluctant to be seen falling by his peers. I think I may have convinced him to try hardbooting again this year.

I mentioned to him that if he grabbed one of the freeride boards from his rental stock, lowered his binding angles, and read the BOL articles I printed off for him, he'd fall in love with snowboarding. He knows how to snowboard now he's just got to learn to ride hardboots.

I WANT this shop owner to convert to hardbooting so that would increase the chance of him carrying more alpine equipment and/or promoting it locally.

Mark

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I give you credit for trying but personally I don't think it's teh way to go. Educate people, tell them the benefits vs. drawbacks of our niche sport, but don't keep trying if the guy isn't interested. That's not my style, anyway. Even if you succeed, what are teh chance he'll really dig it? Part of what defines carvers, IMO, is our passion.

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One of our local shops is selling split boards but they only offer softies in the store. I asked the manager if anbody asked about hardboots as an option and he said that people ask but he didnt know where to send them. I showed him this site (they have internet access on the counter) and showed him how to get to Bombersplitboards.com and check out the options they have. Other than that they are very reluctant to carry a large inventory of any alpine gear (same old story). Fortunately I have a family relationship with the shop so he was very enthusiastic to have another source of information regarding equipment options. Sort of OT but if it helps Fin sell some gear and get more riders on alpine gear then I will keep plugging away at it.

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Guest Mark Jeangerard

Ski swap - Last year I saw a Renn Tiger 62ish for 40 bucks. Didn't buy it because it was too small for me. After a student snapped my 64 UP, I'm hoping to find another smallish carver this year. Bindings too.

Area employees - If you have access to a locker room keep your quiver there. I get ski boot rentals for free and can get a new carving student up and running in 5 minutes flat.

Trench deep - and carry a card. Sounds obvious, but whenever *anyone* says, "Wow, that is sooo graceful. Looks super hard." Assure them it's super easy compared to what they are doing, hand them a card, and explain that you have boards, bindings, and boots on the mountain and you'd like to meet them after lunch.

Carving day - Set up a Saturday or Sunday when you can get 10 or 15 carvers together on the snow. Bring every thing and a pop up. Set up your boards like SES with a representitive/guard. Return to the tent after every run. Make a show of twizzling boards and bindings. Laugh and be merry. When people ask, "What's going on?" simply answer, "The local carvers are trying out each others boards." Conversation will ensue. Individual introductory sessions can be scheduled from there.

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I've been riding for about 6 yrs. Saw 2 carvers up on Michigan's upper peninsula 2 yrs ago. Tried to talk to them but they had too much attitude to be seen with me. Last year I saw a gal at a base village with carving gear (Vail I think) and she was more than happy to chat. GOOD PR! Pretty, knowledgeable, and willing to talk. What a combo :1luvu:

What might help is a base village (or mid mountian) presence where 1/2 of you ride, 1/2 hang out specifically to ooh&aah as your guys carve their way down. Girls & beer wouldn't hurt. But most important is what you already know... have gear available... Last year (I'm not bragging, just letting you know) I was at Breckenridge, Keystone, Vail, Beaver Creek (ski club trip) Snowbird(1 week with girlfriend) Davos, St Anton, Fellhorn, Stiebis(1 week Europe with son) Aspen & Snowmass (MTS ski industry marketing to clubs) Almost without exception when I tried to ask at shops about hardboot setups I got "huh?? what??" Twice I got "yeah, I've heard something about that."

Your greatest asset??? Places like BOL, Hardbooter, etc. Cultivate a "come see carving at our mountain day" around the country. You folks certainly have the interest and dedication from what I've gathered.

Final word? Don't blow off newbies posting, since their the ones you guy are trying to reach.

Best wishes for a good winter. This season it is Park City, Heavenly and Steamboat for me (so far... I realize that I'm blessed with a situation that allows me this life, not all are so lucky) Hope to reach carvers at these places. I'll post as the dates get close. Anyone is free to email me!

Brad

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Great ideas but I think the best way to reach a large audience is for the manufacturers and suppliers to sell the rental shops on carrying some of the gear. Can be lower end bindings and boots. Older discontinued stuff they may have not sold in awhile, since those are typically the smaller sizes. Maybe provide 1 set up to a couple of major resorts in the NE, the MW, West, etc. That coupled with the bomber card hand outs will surely drive growth. Pretty simple really. Pick up where Burton failed.

A waterfall starts with a drop of water. Look what that one drop became.

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I've been riding for about 6 yrs. Saw 2 carvers up on Michigan's upper peninsula 2 yrs ago. Tried to talk to them but they had too much attitude to be seen with me. Last year I saw a gal at a base village with carving gear (Vail I think) and she was more than happy to chat. GOOD PR! Pretty, knowledgeable, and willing to talk. What a combo :1luvu:

What might help is a base village (or mid mountian) presence where 1/2 of you ride, 1/2 hang out specifically to ooh&aah as your guys carve their way down. Girls & beer wouldn't hurt. But most important is what you already know... have gear available... Last year (I'm not bragging, just letting you know) I was at Breckenridge, Keystone, Vail, Beaver Creek (ski club trip) Snowbird(1 week with girlfriend) Davos, St Anton, Fellhorn, Stiebis(1 week Europe with son) Aspen & Snowmass (MTS ski industry marketing to clubs) Almost without exception when I tried to ask at shops about hardboot setups I got "huh?? what??" Twice I got "yeah, I've heard something about that."

Your greatest asset??? Places like BOL, Hardbooter, etc. Cultivate a "come see carving at our mountain day" around the country. You folks certainly have the interest and dedication from what I've gathered.

Final word? Don't blow off newbies posting, since their the ones you guy are trying to reach.

Best wishes for a good winter. This season it is Park City, Heavenly and Steamboat for me (so far... I realize that I'm blessed with a situation that allows me this life, not all are so lucky) Hope to reach carvers at these places. I'll post as the dates get close. Anyone is free to email me!

Brad

Sorry to hear about the bad expiriance you had in the U.P. man... I am a reg up here at Marquette Mtn. and try my best to promote the sport... If you are ever up this way, let me know... There are no where near enough carvers up here....

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Final word? Don't blow off newbies posting, since their the ones you guy are trying to reach.

Best wishes for a good winter. This season it is Park City, Heavenly and Steamboat for me (so far... I realize that I'm blessed with a situation that allows me this life, not all are so lucky) Hope to reach carvers at these places. I'll post as the dates get close. Anyone is free to email me!

Brad

I've never seen a newbie razzed posting-I find this place supportive and instructional. As an example, I USED to post on the Burton message board too.

I recently had to have ankle surgery for a misdiagnosed talar dome fracture from Feb sustained during an egress from the lift. Response here-"get well quick"

Response there- "What a dweeb you are for breaking your ankle"

As for your trips this year, I have The Canyons already scheduled in Feb and I spend a week at my cabin in Grand Lake CO in March. My CO trip I was going to stop in at the shop in Summit CO and have my hardboot setup checked out. When will you be in Steamboat?-it's 90 minutes from there to my cabin. If any dates are compatible, we could certainly meet-if anything for moral support :) My Heavenly dates are still up in the air, my husband wants to see how the ankle heals before he schedules it. We usually go in January, though

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Doneks Pilot board is a great effort towards getting entry level people involved at an affordable price, but you still have to address the binding/boot issue. Seems to me that a "package" would be the way to go, but how to put it together and with what I don't know.

Here's a beginner's package. Just need somebody to step up and offer it:

Donek Pilot

Snowpro bindings

Deeluxe Lemans boots (with thermos)

Instructions for molding the liners

...with the bindings already installed as appropriate for the user's boot size and leg length.

A one-stop purchase for the would-be carver. They just have to provide their foot length and leg length (and the money), and they get a board/bindings that are set up ready to ride, and some boots with thermo linings and instructions for molding them. It could be called the "New Carver Starter Kit".

Just makes it a bit easier for people...

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Guest Mark Jeangerard

Wow, total brain fart.

After reading Baka's 'beginners package' post I just remembered that I taught two never-evers last year on their own freestyle boards. We started on soft boots and got good solid carves going. Then went to ski boots in one case, barrowed SB hard boots in the other, still on the freestyle boards. Then hard boots on my UP and FPs.

Their interest was there from the get go. After pulling a G or 2 on the freestyles they were stoked to try the stiffer boards. After trying the carving boards they were hooked. I've had several emails and phone conversations with both over the summer. They are fully outfitted for this coming winter.

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Fin, Sean, and Dave and I all try very hard to bring hardbooting to everyone.

It makes me happy to see the rest of you do the same.

Just some heads up from thoose of us who have and fund full demo fleets.

As we all know Bomber saw the sharp end when they were suied. I would hate to see any one do the same to some Cat being kind enough to lend out gear. For the first few years we lent out gear on the down low out of site from the Areas we were riding at. As soon as you go public with your demos. Like a pop up on resort property, or a demo area in the parking lot you can be approuched by the area and shut down unless you have Demo insurance. Fin has it, We have it. Its required by law in most states. I am of course not telling you, to not Demo gear. What I am saying is you may have to be a bit low key if the general public is involed. And or speak with the resort and get it together. Setting your friend of a friend up at home before you go ride is never a issue. But Holding a public display of hardboot demoing is.

I think the fact that more and more demo gear is getting into Newbies hands and the amount of demo gear has doubled in the past Five years. Is proof that Hardbooting is growing.

Perhaps we really need to "sell the alpine get togethers across the country like SES, The WTC and ECES to every newbie we see. Marks comments about having a card or a sticker to hand out to people so they can go home and learn on line is very important! But tell people about the gatherings.

When Fin first asked me what I thought of a card explaining hardbooting to Newbies I was stoked. I agreed 10000% and now they are out there for you to get and hand out. Just e-mail Fin. Fin@bomberonline.com

We do the same thing with stickers. Send Dave some e-mail Dave@hardbooter.com and we will send out a handfull of hardbooter sticker for you and your friends and any newbie you want to stoke out! :cool:

We even printed up a bunch of Pink stickers this year to pimp out the Ladies, yet another untapped resourse for hardbooting! :p Get your girls on the hill boys!

Spread the word!!! Change the World one set of boots at a time! :biggthump

O-yea hardbooter demo fleet is around 24-7 to any one in the Wasatch just let us know you are around and we have gear for you! We send out 50-70 new riders a year this way if you are plaining a trip to UT lets us help convert a friend. We also bring our Race stock fleet to SES and ECES(new this year) to give current riders the chance to ride what the pros ride!

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