skategoat Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 I know you *can* ride powder in hard boots but is it superior in any way to soft boots in the ungroomed fluffy stuff? I'm thinking about doing a trip to the Purcells in February and I've got equipment decisions to make. It's not like you can run back to the parking lot to switch gear at lunchtime. Oh ya and as for boards, I will bring a Burton Fish 164 but should I bother with the Prior 4WD? How about my Coiler Race Carve or any other narrow boards? Just leave that stuff at home, I'm thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotts.Scheinman Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 do whats best for the days condotions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P06781 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 I use a Rad air Tanker with plates when riding snowcats in the monashees. Use what you are most comfortable with in powder but be prepared for other all mountain snow conditions (windpack, crusts, ect) . What ever you bring make sure you have spare parts if something breaks or comes loose. Read up on your trip as helicopters are quite weight limited and they may allow only one board but bring an extra board and set of bindings if allowed. Have Fun Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted October 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 The problem is, I've never ridden powder so I don't know what I'm comfortable in. When I've ridden in what passes for powder in the East which is usually heavy and tracked-up, I find I need a softer board with more nose. But, that's because you run into mounded-up mini-moguls, tracks, virgin snow and all kinds of other stuff. If I'm in consistent, untracked stuff, I'm not sure I need such forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfj04 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 IMO - I would not recommend any carving boards - escpecially if you are hooked up with any skiers. Most likely, you'll be in anything from perfect powder to thick, crusty off-piste type conditions. A carving board will want to track (and sink). I rode a flow classic 182 at 200 lbs and handled all conditions. The key is to find a board that stay on top of whatever conditions your in. As for back-up equipment - you'll most likely be in the middle of nowhere and want to have seconds on whatever you can. Also - carry two goggles for different light conditions. If you haven't experienced flat light - you will Other thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Never heli-boarded, but came close with the cat operation at Island Lake Lodge. Hyoogely variable conditions then, from medium-weight pow at the top to boilerplate crust at the bottom. I was on hard boots and a Burton Asym Air (medium-stiff freeride board), worked like a champ. Zero problems keeping up with skiers, just the opposite in fact. If I had to do it again, I'd take my Tanker 2000 and my Coiler AM 172 and probably go with the Tanker unless there wasn't any fresh. As far as your choices: Never ridden a Fish but from various reports it might not do well if you run into windcrust or other such hard conditions. OTOH if you've never dealt with powder you might find your Prior a bit of a struggle. I had one and found it to work in almost anything, but then I'm used to western conditions. I admit mine was short (165) and I never had it in bottomless pow. I agree that you should leave the pure carving machines at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 mY Burton Frontier 185 with race plates is the shizz as far as I am concerned. Its not too wide that If conditions are firmer that it feels like riding a pig that doesn't want to change edges. And with that big nose and the stiffness it carries I can unweight and launch it up out of the powder at will. When I am riding untracked pow - for me it is all about the speed. Hence the size and stiffness and stability. I get going 40 to 50 pretty regular in the pow. I know that some of these other boards will do the same things I just havn't ridden them. Do I like the plates. Heck yeah. Easy to kick snow out of, easy in and out. Stores better in the chopper basket. The guides know you are not some jibbonking, overtesteroned, undersexed pimple packer. Sorry free ride guys but the freestyle movement is so underwhelming and sold out to the whatever the man is selling that it gets me all.... arrrgghhh. But the speed, the power and the control does not go away just because you are in the powdoo. So fun to think about I am getting all choked. UP. Best, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted October 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Carvedog, what kind of angles were you running with the big Burton. A buddy has a 185 Winterstick that he has offered to loan me. Might be similar setup as yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyYT316 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 You mean a 154 Fish right? Or maybe a 160. I don't think they made a 164. I've got a fish and I love it for the powder. It's not a board buit for ludicrous speed, but for cruising through powder. It floats great with the big nose and tapered tail. I use mine for hiking out of bounds and hitting secret stashes. Terje and Jake Burton like the Fish. It's good for surfing the powder. I'd say it would be a good choice for a heli trip through the powder. Can't wait to take the fish out on a good day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 There is something ( a bit off topic ok sorry) that always amazes me... Why do north americans use way longer boards than us on the groom, and way shorter boards in powder....? In europe the biggest carving decks are in the 170-175cm range, and we go up to 2m quite easy when it comes to riding swallowtails...I'm not sure to understand why you want to ride in the powder on the backleg so much...? Powder is about riding on the nose: the further the faster you go.. Milovich is even redrilling inserts on his boards these days to be able to sink the nose of his swallows under the snow.. Am I missing something? Are you missing something? I know we have much bigger open faces here to ride at full speed, but you can really spin a 2m swallow in trees if you need it ( we all have to go back to the bottom in the trees).. its just a matter of technique and quickness.. and those boards are way, way better designed for the pow. Euro 2cents advice: in powder: go BIG, it handles much bigger speeds and allows for riding forward without looking like a freestyler on his painful backleg. Nils PS a few pics ( i've done heliski with that board on the mount blanc area a few times its incredibly efficient, even in tricky icy parts.) the last pic shows Jerome Wilm a "roots" rider on a 200 apocalypse that was designed for open faces... he manages between the trees with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyYT316 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Not sure if this'll answer your question, but I'll try a little. The Fish was designed to be a smaller powder board. The nice thing about it is that the fish design helps you float on the powder, so you don't sink in as much. And you don't have to lean back as much. It's more of a freestyle powder board. It's always interesting to see how other people ride. I don't know what the snow is like in europe, so maybe it's a little different than the snow in N. America. But then again people ride differently too. Well you can check out the Fish here: http://www.burton.com/gear/products.asp?productID=26&shortMaterialNumber=B60261011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 I know the board...but its the idea of riding deep snow on a short board that is strange to us here...This is why few people ride the fish in the alps. I'm just trying to understand why there is a tool difference.. we have all kinds of snow here and it shouldn't explain all..Indeed burton is a US company, and also Swallowtails makers have never stopped building boards in europe over the last 20 years, so that could also explain the difference... but is it all? My personnal experience is riding with undergunned people you keep waiting all the time.. kinda frustrating powder/ heliski experience.. All the swallowtail guys were like... where are the others..? they usually arrive later, way tired compare to us :).. ( of course both have fun but its not the point of my question). Also its not just a US vs euro stuff, since there are riders in north america are riding the undertaker 198, or big nitro's swallows...but what makes it so seldom.? N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 like Bigwave guns are for the epic conditions. My best powder day was on a 185 (fish tailed) Flight Rocket. Plates aren't a big deal a long enough board is more important. A powder board of choice other than the Tankers (which are great BTW) are Glissade's Big Gun I've got an old friend who picked up a 185cm 2 years ago and has raved about it for eveything, though he spent last year in Tahoe. Arbor A-Frames also have a good record with plates in the back country. BTW Nils what is that wood decked board/ it's beautiful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 its a swellpanik 196 amok wood is chestnut root sheet. I asked no logo, and since then he puts no logo on them hehe... his last production is incredibly hot designs ( vintage models) www.swellpanik.com (crappy navigation website :() Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 its a swellpanik 196 amokwood is chestnut root sheet. I asked no logo, and since then he puts no logo on them hehe... his last production is incredibly hot designs ( vintage models) www.swellpanik.com (crappy navigation website :() Where's the winning lottery ticket when you need it??? those are some nice boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted October 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 To correct my post, yes it's a 160 Fish. Too many boards, too many numbers to remember. I bought it because I liked the concept of a big nose and tapered tail. The feedback I got on it was that it allowed you to lean forward more because the tail naturally sinks in the pow. The trip is not until February so I'll keep my eyes out for a big swallowtail. Prior makes a nice one from what I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfj04 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Bola, That's my Cordova trip you're referencing. I only got to ride your Prior for 1/2 day and the Flow the other 1/2 day. Never got to really feel either but agree on the point and go versus tight turn scenario PS Stopped by the shop the other day but you were out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfj04 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 I'll have to remember to bring my pow board next time I see you up there with a foot of fresh :D Off for a Res Ride with Rob from Eldo in a few minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P06781 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 160cm board in powder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is something ( a bit off topic ok sorry) that always amazes me... Why do north americans use way longer boards than us on the groom, and way shorter boards in powder....? In europe the biggest carving decks are in the 170-175cm range, and we go up to 2m quite easy when it comes to riding swallowtails...I'm not sure to understand why you want to ride in the powder on the backleg so much...? Powder is about riding on the nose: the further the faster you go.. Milovich is even redrilling inserts on his boards these days to be able to sink the nose of his swallows under the snow.. Am I missing something? Are you missing something? It might be about total bottom surface area. I ride a Tanker 2k and 192 and they are great in all conditions. My friend whos does our annual snowcat trip has a Inca 182 which is a weird dual camber made by local guy in PDX. His theory is its total surface area = float and speed. His inca 182 has more total SA than my tanker 192 and he floats great (better than most of the skiers w/ pow stix). Only my tanker 200 has more SA than his inca and as nils said it is no problem in trees as long as your float easily which allows easy turn initiation. I ride catek SI w/ 323 rachlies, he uses burton raceplates with scarpa AT boots . ps. We are looking for one more person to fill a cat on a 4 day trip jan 2-5 to the monashees in bc. We could pick any up on the drive from pdx through seattle to the pickup site in central bc. Contact Ali at mustang powder . http://mustangpowder.com/availability.html Its a great place and is still affordable this year, but next year the prices go up... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Todd Stewart Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 i've ridden tree/pow on a 168 burton ultra prime before, i found it sank easily and i had a lot less manuverability at slower speeds. I'd say leave the coiler at home unless you know there is gonna be some good carving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 nils There is something ( a bit off topic ok sorry) that always amazes me... Why do north americans use way longer boards than us on the groom, and way shorter boards in powder....? Nils, It could be that the nature of resort riding is MOSTLY different in the States. Powder gets tracked out quickly because of the crowds so you usually do not get the chance to make extra fat turns. The runs also tend to be shorter. Of course if your lucky enough to go heli-boarding the big board is entirelly appropriate Now about the longer carving boards, can't explain. Why do you think europeans tend to ride boards in the 170 range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 The Fish was designed and tested with this as the backyard: trees are REALLY tight in vermont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 thats tight? looks like a playground to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvCanada Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 that's at the top... go down 200ft and you get brushed by needles constantly :) you can sort of see it in the picture. imagine 95% of terrain being as tight as the mountain in the background (Jay Peak) It's tight enough that every once and a while you pick a wrong line and get stuck between trees and have to swim. It's fun! When you only see max 20 ft in front of you, you often end up picking lines where you end up in a hole with trees all around you laughing and your friends go by and some of them fall in the same trap. I'd bet the Fish would be so awesome in there, I'd like to pick one up and split it one day. For now a 165 Prior works good. Couldn't imagine going 168+cm RUFF in the jungle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Carvedog, what kind of angles were you running with the big Burton. A buddy has a 185 Winterstick that he has offered to loan me. Might be similar setup as yours. On the Frontier 185 I am at about 40 on the Canyon 173 at around 30, which feels like I am totally sideways on the board. I can still carve both pretty hard. YOu don't get the snap as the board transitions from one edge to the other, but particularly the Frontier will hold very well on the more firm terrain or groomed. The Canyon is better in the tight trees and maybe the really tight bumps. The Frontier performs well in all kinds of crud and chop and gs style bumps with airplane turns and everything. Best, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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