Canting assembly broken on Deeluxe 700

[Hug Masso]

Fellow riders,

yesterday after a bumpy session on snow I discovered the right canting (the half moon plastic thing) of the left boot was missing. I just have the inner aluminium piece. Now, since I dont use any canting I believe I could go to a hardware store and ask for a fixed t bolt or sth similar and just fix it. Is that a good idea? Would you recommend any type of bolt that leaves the minimum volume on the inside of the boot as to avoid any pressure point. Which type of two piece bolts would you recommend me? I believe it is alomst impossible to buy those pieces from Deeluxe, and I would be suspicious of the durability of the OEM part. So, whatever recommendation would be welcomed. I attach 2 pictures of the now exposed holes.

Edited March 25 by Hug Masso

[kibber]

Deeluxe boot parts are sold on Donek website. If hardware store, T-Nut/Fender Washer/pan-head bolt w locktite.

[Hug Masso]

Thanks for the answer. This is me coming back from the hardware store, what do you think? Will the washer destroy the plastic at some point? An added rubber washer might make the whole assembly more durable…

Not anything fancy, and not locked in, just a regular bolt and washer, but I’ll find some T bolt that can be locked at some position and amplitude. As far as I’ve read it seems that part of the Deeluxe boots tends to fail quite easily. Besides, buying from Donek and shipping to Spain might be expensive, and doesnt make a lot of sense since Deeluxe is an Austria-based company. I might switch to UPZ in the future if this part fails repeteadly. 

[kibber]

You are a long ways from Donek

..that looks pretty good. good enough to get back on hill; for how long? I don’t know!! Looks like you found a bolt to fit the inside metal piece? (nice).

A rubber/plastic/urethane washer or something to interface w cuff is a good idea, it will delay the inevitable! Ask your fastener supply store about a metal-bonded sealing washer (see picture). I used Deeluxe boots for ten years, now use UPZ’s since five years ago.

[Jack M]

Been there.  Eventually the plastic in the cuff fails and you'll have nothing to bolt to.  Time to consider new boots or a different brand.

[Aracan]

I wasn't aware that Deeluxe is Austrian, as they used to be Raichle, which was Swiss. Maybe it's just their pied-a-terre in the EU. Anyway, UPZ is actually Austrian, and there cant assembly is far more robust.

[Hug Masso]

You guys are very nice and knowledgeable. @kibber thank you for the metal sealing washer recommendation. For now, the bolt you see in the picture is just screwed onto the “female” piece I had left in the second picture of the initial post, but it is not locked, which would mean it will unscrew at an unknown pace, which means for now I don’t trust it to go on the hill with it. As I said, surely there is some type of “lockable” bolt, I’ll look into that. Thankfully, I have another pair of boots, the Deeluxe Free 69 (yes the banana coloured renamed Deeluxe 225/325). But the cant assembly is quite different, it seems only the 700 lineup have the half moon thing. Now, do these 225/325 cant assembly tend to fail also? Let me illustrate with a picture. 

 

 

Now, talking about UPZ, I see I can buy a RC11 or RC12 in a spanish website, for 450€ (aprox 480 USD). That seems quite a good price, and I’ve read good things about those 11/12 UPZ, specifically that the buckles are improved compared to other older models of UPZ. Would you buy it? Regarding sizes, I have a 28,3-28,5 mondopoint feet, and been using the Track 700 in euro 44, which had a little too much room, and have the Free 69 in euro 43. The sizing of the UPZ around my mondopoint is either  Uk 8,5-9,5 (this is one size) or the immediay upper size is 10-11. Now, my uk size is between 9,5 and 10, which theoretically leaves me in between boot sizes. I know it is better to have less room and a thinner liner, but 9,5 UK is 28 cm MP, and thats the upper maximum range of the 8,5-9,5 size, so dont know what to do. Any recommendations? 
 

Thank you!

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Aracan said:

I wasn't aware that Deeluxe is Austrian, as they used to be Raichle, which was Swiss. Maybe it's just their pied-a-terre in the EU. Anyway, UPZ is actually Austrian, and there cant assembly is far more robust.

Apart from the buckles, any downside to the UPZ? I don’t mind spending the money, but would like to have boots that last for years! 

8 hours ago, Jack M said:

Been there.  Eventually the plastic in the cuff fails and you'll have nothing to bolt to.  Time to consider new boots or a different brand.

Yes, let’s see what you recommend me for the UPZ sizes. Been looking around, seems 450€ for a RC12 is very very good.

[CB Utah]

@Hug Masso, hope you are having a great season.  If your bare feet have been measured at 28,3 and 28,5 centimeters, and you don’t have feet that are really wide or unusually shaped, the mondopoint 28 UPZ boot of your choice with the UK 9,5 liner should be spot on.  It is critical that you measure your feet and purchase a pair of boots based on the actual length of your bare feet.  Once you receive your boots, do a shell fit test without the liners.  You should barely touch the tip of your toes to the toe box and then have about 1.5 fingers width between your ankle and the back shell. The liners will feel tight at first; please give them time to flow around your feet.  If you have thin shins, you can buy replacement UPZ thick liner tongues to build volume or if you have thick shins, they’ll sell you thin liner tongues. For a low volume foot, you can add a boot board to fill space.  If you have a boot fitter familiar with injecting foam ski race liners, you can purchase a UPZ foam injection liner.  They make 4 types.  You can customize your boots many different ways with 4 different outer tongue stiffnesses and 3 different springs that are adjustable.  If you disassemble any screw assemblies on the older boots or newer boots, I recommend blue lock tite or blue thread locker liquid.  Best of luck!

[kibber]

1 hour ago, Hug Masso said:

You guys are very nice and knowledgeable. @kibber thank you for the metal sealing washer recommendation. For now, the bolt you see in the picture is just screwed onto the “female” piece I had left in the second picture of the initial post, but it is not locked, which would mean it will unscrew at an unknown pace, which means for now I don’t trust it to go on the hill with it. As I said, surely there is some type of “lockable” bolt, I’ll look into that. Thankfully, I have another pair of boots, the Deeluxe Free 69 (yes the banana coloured renamed Deeluxe 225/325). But the cant assembly is quite different, it seems only the 700 lineup have the half moon thing. Now, do these 225/325 cant assembly tend to fail also? Let me illustrate with a picture. 

 

 

Now, talking about UPZ, I see I can buy a RC11 or RC12 in a spanish website, for 450€ (aprox 480 USD). That seems quite a good price, and I’ve read good things about those 11/12 UPZ, specifically that the buckles are improved compared to other older models of UPZ. Would you buy it? Regarding sizes, I have a 28,3-28,5 mondopoint feet, and been using the Track 700 in euro 44, which had a little too much room, and have the Free 69 in euro 43. The sizing of the UPZ around my mondopoint is either  Uk 8,5-9,5 (this is one size) or the immediay upper size is 10-11. Now, my uk size is between 9,5 and 10, which theoretically leaves me in between boot sizes. I know it is better to have less room and a thinner liner, but 9,5 UK is 28 cm MP, and thats the upper maximum range of the 8,5-9,5 size, so dont know what to do. Any recommendations? 
 

Thank you!

 

 

 

Apart from the buckles, any downside to the UPZ? I don’t mind spending the money, but would like to have boots that last for years! 

Yes, let’s see what you recommend me for the UPZ sizes. Been looking around, seems 450€ for a RC12 is very very good.

Try thread-locker on that female piece, ie Blue Loctite. Curious, is broken cant on rear foot? (which tends to get more force). Maybe switch cant w other boot and put washer/bolt on front foot. Re UPZ RC12’s. I assume newer version with Hinge Tongue (not the double bolted tongue) since you mentioned newer buckles. picture?

[Jack M]

1 hour ago, Hug Masso said:

Yes, let’s see what you recommend me for the UPZ sizes. Been looking around, seems 450€ for a RC12 is very very good.

I agree with CB Utah.  Try on the boots indoors and determine whether they will work for you without wearing them outdoors so that you can exchange them if they're too tight.  Usually once you use boots for snowboarding, there are no returns.  UPZ are lower volume than T700.  Most people replace the stock UPZ liner quickly.  Intuition Plug Wrap liners are great for a low volume situation.  Be sure to mold them in the oven.

[Hug Masso]

Ok guys before asking some more particular things for what you said let me ask a concern I have. I have heard Deeluxe have larger toe box and narrow heels, while is it opposite one UpZ. I havent had major inconvenience or pressure points in the Deeluxe apart from a major bit intense pressure point in bot the 700 and the Free 69, which is a quite usual pressure point, but that is neither toe or heel related, and its this point:

I know a bootfiter could adress that, but i’d rather have it right without touching the structural rigidity by punching the boot inside. So now the important question: would you say UPZ is wider at this point? My feet are quite neutral, except for a bit of wider feet at this middle section. That would be so nice to know. Apart from that, yes my toes get a bit crunched on the Deeluxes. 
 

3 hours ago, CB Utah said:

Once you receive your boots, do a shell fit test without the liners.  You should barely touch the tip of your toes to the toe box and then have about 1.5 fingers width between your ankle and the back shell.

Yes, I will do that! Thanks for all the other advice! I have the choice of the RC11 or RC12 for 450€, so both the same price. I have seen it is not so much a quality question but a rigidity one. Maybe for a freecarving scenario the RC11 is preferable? Also worth mentioning the RC11 is in neon green and they look quite ace, while the RC12 are all black.

2 hours ago, kibber said:

UPZ RC12’s. I assume newer version with Hinge Tongue (not the double bolted tongue) since you mentioned newer buckles. picture?

Yes, the broken bolt is in the rear foot. But if I buy the UPZ, I will proably ditch the Track 700…but once I find a lockable T Nut I will put it in the front foot as you say, thats quite a clever idea, didnt know the rear foot received more pressure. This is the picture of the Rc12,s

as I said, I can have for the same price the RC11, which look dope, but curious to see which is more convenient, those are the Rc11:

Finally, as I asked before, the canting assembly on the Deeluxe NON-700 I showed in the last post, do some of you guys happen to know if the circular cant assembly is more durable? I hope my Free 69 last some time… 

[Aracan]

Quote

I have heard Deeluxe have larger toe box and narrow heels, while is it opposite one UpZ.

In my experience it is the other way round: The UPZ heel is decidedly narrower, the toe box somewhat wider. In the area on the side of the foot where you have a pressure point there is probably not much difference. I, too, had a bit of sore spot there in the UPZs (only one, as opposed to multiple spots in Deeluxe). A heat gun to the moldable liner took care of that.

[kibber]

If you put silver tongues in the rc11’s you may not tell the difference regarding stiffness.

Red-soft,Black-flexy, Silver-Stiff, Gray-XStiff.

I like hot lime yellow, too.

[Hug Masso]

48 minutes ago, Aracan said:

In my experience it is the other way round: The UPZ heel is decidedly narrower, the toe box somewhat wider.

Sorry, yes, I meant the exact opposite. 
 

49 minutes ago, Aracan said:

A heat gun to the moldable liner took care of that.

As I understand, the relieving of pressure points should be done to the shells of all hardboots, or at least this is what bootfiters tend to do… am I right?

 

45 minutes ago, kibber said:

rc11’s you may not tell the difference regarding stiffness

So are the Rc11 a flexier shell apart from the tongue? Being the sane price as RC12, what would be the logical buy for a 85 kg freecarver?

[GeoffV]

2 hours ago, Hug Masso said:

 

So are the Rc11 a flexier shell apart from the tongue? Being the sane price as RC12, what would be the logical buy for a 85 kg freecarver?

I weigh around the same as you and rode with the sliver tongue. I tried the dark grey, it was to stiff and hurt my shin. 

UPZ Tongues

[Aracan]

Quote

As I understand, the relieving of pressure points should be done to the shells of all hardboots, or at least this is what bootfiters tend to do… am I right?

I wouldn't know. Since

1) the moldable liner (Palau, not UPZ) was thick enough in that spot to take care of the problem and

2) I could do it myself as opposed to taking the boot to a bootfitter

I don't see why one shouldn't first tweak the liner and see if the problem goes away. High-end ski boot manufacturers like Strolz make a lot of their liners and don't touch the shells unless necessary.

[TimW]

I don't think UPZs are narrower / more problematic at your pressure point. 

If you go UPZ, give the Flo liners that come with the boot a chance. My initial impression was bad, they felt cardboard like. After a week they felt alright, after two weeks good, now I think they are great. 

 

 

[Aracan]

I loved the Flo liners. Somewhere I found the info to wear them around the house before riding them, which I did. They felt great, they just did not last very long and are expensive to replace.

[Hug Masso]

2 hours ago, Aracan said:

the moldable liner (Palau, not UPZ) was thick enough in that spot to take care of the problem and

Yes! I also have a Palau liner and is definitely very thick, so I will try to give it a go. how did you remove material? with a sharp knive and scratching little by little on the outside?

2 hours ago, TimW said:

If you go UPZ, give the Flo liners that come with the boot a chance.

Well the price of 450 euros is just the shell. The webpage that sells it gives the option to put Palau liners for added 80 euros, which is quite good, but @Jack M advice was to use a lower volume liner, since the UPZ seems to have a lower inside volume  in general, and my euro 43 Free 69 with the Palau liners is already very stuffed... also, those flo liners can be bought separately, but are REALLY expensive... So, will need to wait. Also, I have done the obvious today, and written to Deeluxe company directly see if the can sell me the spare part, althoug from what i've heard they normally don't respond...

[Aracan]

Quote

how did you remove material? with a sharp knive and scratching little by little on the outside?

No. Basically I re-molded that spot: Padded my foot in the appropriate area, heated the spot with a heatgun (carefully!), then put on the liner and boot and let cool. Cutting off a bit would have been my next step, but it was not necessary.

[Jack M]

The UPZ Flo liners didn't work well for me.  Comfort was fine but I could feel them squirming around inside the shell - very unnerving while riding.  I also thought they were too soft.  YMMV.  Switching to Inuition was the solution, and they stiffened up the boot noticeably.  If Flo liners come with the boots (in Hug's case they do not) one should definitely give them a try but I would not pay extra for them.  We know that molded Intuitions work great for basically everybody.

[Hug Masso]

5 hours ago, Aracan said:

No. Basically I re-molded that spot: Padded my foot in the appropriate area, heated the spot with a heatgun

Ok @Aracan, thank you, just let me confirm what you did. You put some padding in the pressure point, the socks over to keep everything in place, then heat the liner at this point, and put liner in the boot and foot inside and buckle up, so the final effect is that the liner gets more packed and thin in that pressure point. Am I correct? I don’t have a heat gun but plan on using my girlfriend hair dryer for a long time. If that is not good I will remove material. On that last case, a cutter or sth similar is the proper way to remove material little by little? 

 

4 hours ago, Jack M said:

We know that molded Intuitions work great for basically

That I’ve heard about intuition liners @Jack M. They are not easy to find in Europe, instead the Palau liners have good press here and cost around 100€ a pair of moldable ones. I believe it is a french company. Is this the intuition liner everybody talks about? Are they specific to hardboots right?

[Jack M]

I've had Palau liners and as far as I can tell they are the same darn thing as Intuition.  If you can get Palau easily then you're all set.

Intuition makes moldable liners for all kinds of boots.  Ski, snowboard hard/soft, cross country, etc.  I haven't looked into Palau's catalog.

[kibber]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:42 AM, Hug Masso said:

Ok guys before asking some more particular things for what you said let me ask a concern I have. I have heard Deeluxe have larger toe box and narrow heels, while is it opposite one UpZ. I havent had major inconvenience or pressure points in the Deeluxe apart from a major bit intense pressure point in bot the 700 and the Free 69, which is a quite usual pressure point, but that is neither toe or heel related, and its this point:

I know a bootfiter could adress that, but i’d rather have it right without touching the structural rigidity by punching the boot inside. So now the important question: would you say UPZ is wider at this point? My feet are quite neutral, except for a bit of wider feet at this middle section. That would be so nice to know. Apart from that, yes my toes get a bit crunched on the Deeluxes. 
 

Yes, I will do that! Thanks for all the other advice! I have the choice of the RC11 or RC12 for 450€, so both the same price. I have seen it is not so much a quality question but a rigidity one. Maybe for a freecarving scenario the RC11 is preferable? Also worth mentioning the RC11 is in neon green and they look quite ace, while the RC12 are all black.

Yes, the broken bolt is in the rear foot. But if I buy the UPZ, I will proably ditch the Track 700…but once I find a lockable T Nut I will put it in the front foot as you say, thats quite a clever idea, didnt know the rear foot received more pressure. This is the picture of the Rc12,s

as I said, I can have for the same price the RC11, which look dope, but curious to see which is more convenient, those are the Rc11:

Finally, as I asked before, the canting assembly on the Deeluxe NON-700 I showed in the last post, do some of you guys happen to know if the circular cant assembly is more durable? I hope my Free 69 last some time… 

Copy of my post re: “downsizing” applies here to. Ask your UPZ person if the RC12’s and RC11’s have same “mm” specs on shell.

There is not a direct relationship between mondo point and volume, different brands or different models within a brand can have different volumes with same mondo point. Within models of UPZ, generally speaking, race boots have less volume than recreational. I have two brand new pairs of UPZ boots; 2023 RCR’s and 2024 AT8’s, mondo point on both boxes say “25,5”. The mm/last #’s say 258/279mm, 266/287mm respectively. I have thinnest intuition race plug liners in RCR’s and intuition M-volume Luxury liners in AT8’s. How can same Mondo have different volumes. because! that’s why.

Doing a shell fit w bare feet is Priority 1, then determining proper volume liner is Priority 2, then addressing any special fitment w arch, weird toe/foot shape, skinny/big shins, whatever, P3.

[Hug Masso]

32 minutes ago, kibber said:

Copy of my post re: “downsizing” applies here to. Ask your UPZ person if the RC12’s and RC11’s have same “mm” specs on shell.

There is not a direct relationship between mondo point and volume, different brands or different models within a brand can have different volumes with same mondo point. Within models of UPZ, generally speaking, race boots have less volume than recreational. I have two brand new pairs of UPZ boots; 2023 RCR’s and 2024 AT8’s, mondo point on both boxes say “25,5”. The mm/last #’s say 258/279mm, 266/287mm respectively. I have thinnest intuition race plug liners in RCR’s and intuition M-volume Luxury liners in AT8’s. How can same Mondo have different volumes. because! that’s why.

Doing a shell fit w bare feet is Priority 1, then determining proper volume liner is Priority 2, then addressing any special fitment w arch, weird toe/foot shape, skinny/big shins, whatever, P3.

Thanks! Are Rc11 and Rc12 considered recreational? In upz webpage it says for both: Racing/freecarve. The RCR are racier or just the newer version of the RCXx? Thanks for the priority order!