jng Posted October 10, 2023 Report Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) (Admin edit - this thread started as a for sale listing) Edited January 18 by Jack M thread moved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 I just ordered some locally here in Ontario. I forgot about this FS post and hope mine will be stiff enough for me. How tall/heavy are you? Curious what you ended up replacing them with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jng Posted January 17 Author Report Share Posted January 17 I replaced with Now O Drives. My concern was less about the overall stiffness and more about how tightly I can crank the straps while still being able to step in easily. I like my bindings snug, and I was fussing with the Supermatics almost as much as regular bindings. I actually decided to keep these on my teaching board when I don’t mind running looser straps, and bias towards quick entry/exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackaddict Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 (edited) Turns out the Nidecker Supermatic is a relatively soft binding with a lot of play between the highback and the heelcup. Worse, it has a massively thick heelcup. The Supermatic will add 37mm to the total length of your boot, better carving bindings are in the 13mm range (Now O-Drive, Drake Podium), the Flux XV adds 23mm. The Supermatic is not a carving binding. All these others are stiffer too. I took some measurements last week. I call it the BO factor (boot out factor): it's the total length the binding with a boot in it, minus the boot sole length. I also measured the height of the heelcup off the board. The lowest was the Drake Podium at 67mm, the highest heelcup was the Flow NX2 Carbon at 100mm. Supermatic was close at 95mm (which can somewhat make up a little for it's massive length). The O-Drive was 80mm, Flux XV was 75mm. The best binding for carving, in my opinion, is the Flow NX2 Carbon. This is by far the stiffest and it has the highest heelcup and the lowest BO factor at an astounding 2mm! If you're between sizes, size down. The large is a little wide in the toes for my size 9 Driver Xs. The F2 Eliminator is a soft flexing binding, the Flux CV is a soft flexing binding. Not recommended for real hard charging. I have yet to hold a Ride A-10 in my hands or any SP binding, but otherwise my survey of the best bindings marketed at carvers is relatively complete I think. I have hand flexed a lot of other bindings too and dismissed them immediately as too soft for me. If you want super stiff, the lowest BO factor (by far) and the highest heelcup, it's the Flow NX2 Carbon. If you prefer a little softer interface then the Drake Podium and the Now O-Drive are pretty stiff by today's standards and have the next lowest BO factors, a whole cm lower than the Flux XV and that's a whole cm you can take out of your waist width! The Flux XV is stiffer than these other two though, by a lot. They're like old school 2003 stiff. But the NX2 Carbon is the stiffest I have ever seen, ever. I can relax my toes and lean into the boot top like hard boots. The XV feels loose after riding the NX2 but until this season I would have said the XV was the stiffest and highest performing binding out there. The NX2 is also more comfortable than the XV, which cause me pain (on the outside of the calf, both legs) if I ride them hard more than a few days in a row. Just one man's experience and opinion. I fully recognize that not everyone wants an interface as stiff as mine. They may want to look at other Flow bindings though which probably also share a very low BO factor and high heelcup but I haven't measured any of them myself. I am curious though about other bindings. I would be interested in BO factor measurements for any other stiff bindings, or confirmation on my own measurements. All you need is a square and a tape measure. If this turns into a binding comparison thread let's change the title and put it into the soft boot reviews section please @Jack M Edited January 18 by crackaddict 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 Ugh. Thanks @crackaddict. Now, I'm second guessing my purchase. I haven't mounted them yet. I may flip them locally and look for the NX2 Carbons instead. The Flow highback, while not a step-in, should still be very quick entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackaddict Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 Just now, slabber said: The Flow highback, while not a step-in, should still be very quick entry. It is, but the release on the buckles are stiff even after a good break in period. So they can be a bit hard to get out of but super easy to get into. Even though I have to loosen and tighten the buckles on every run and do three mechanisms instead of two, I don't have to reach down to get the straps out of the way (or even kick them out of the way) before putting my boot in and that saves time and energy. Presumably if you ride them looser, like on a powder day or whatever, you wouldn't have to touch the buckles once they're set. And a moving step in and buckle up is relatively easy too, which is nice in Revelstoke with all our flat traverses. Funnily enough, it turns out highbacks are only for heelsides! A few times I've forgotten to lock in the highback and I never notice on my first toeside turn... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 @crackaddict are you using the Fusion or Hybrid style fronts? Looks like the Carbon can be had in both styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackaddict Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 Flow NX2 Carbon Fusion. Because it goes over the toe instead of toe cap style, the BO factor is lower. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 Ok. Ordered last pair of NX2 Carbon Hybrid I could find at a good price from Canadian retailer. C$500 delivered, so +C$50 over the Supermatics, assuming I can unload those locally. Blue Tomato has the Fusion on sale for 20% off but I didn't want to run around going to CBSA to manage the customs clearance to avoid DHL brokerage fees... I've got smaller feet/boots so boot out isn't really a concern for me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr2 Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 2024-25 Carbon Supermatic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poloturbo Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) Off topic. Sorry. Edited January 21 by Poloturbo Off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 @Jack M I feel this impromptu binding discussion should be in the existing softboot bindings thread in the lounge!! I upgraded my Flows to the Flow NX2 Fusion Carbons a year ago and agree with @crackaddict, they are a great combination of low overhang and stiffness. As I’ve previously noted, the plastic footbed is almost too stiff for me (I’ve had to try softer footbeds in my boots). And I have never quite gotten along with the Flow straps, although I’m slowly starting to get there…I feel the combined strap creates more pressure on the instep as opposed to higher around the ankle so they always feel looser than what they are compared to a traditional two-strap. The buckles seem to stiffen in the cold and are more difficult to release than others unless you’ve first released the highback, which itself can be stiff to release once you’re locked in. And I’ve never found the rear entry mechanism to be smooth as I have to release the highback and then loosen the buckles slightly (I often can’t pull my boot out just from lowering the highback)….plus you can’t forget to leave the rear highback down after you step out because it catches on lift lines and gates. All that to say I’d love to swap out the one-piece strap for a more traditional two-strapper and use them like that. I ride stiff Burton bindings for years and had no strap issues. But I am slowly getting used to the straps and the Carbon binding is stiff and so short that I’ve been learning to carve at super-shallow angles this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuxdiesel Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 I used Flows for years, from the older GT's to the newest NX2's and I agree that the are indeed stiff, but they have a unique style of stiffness. I switched to A-9's 2 years ago and bought some A-10's last year and the difference between the Flows and the Rides is very noticeable but not easily describable. For me, the Flow to feels like it is pulling your foot down to the board, whereas the Ride feels like it is pulling the board up to meet it- weird, but that is how I would describe it. Both ride exceptionally well, both are very easy to get into. There is a bit more lateral stiffness with the Flow fusion strap, but that never seemed to translate into the board. Someday I would like to compare a hybrid strap and see. I like the design on the Supermatic shown above- I prefer a stiff, solid highback, but by all accounts the current version is a bit flexy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Yes, while I thought I should go with the Fusion strap, I think the higher placement of the Hybrid style may contribute to a more positive sense of security. I'm excited to try them out. Supposed to arrive tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poloturbo Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 I'm torn between the A-10 and Jones Apollo (seems like an Now O-drive??) Got to get ride of those nidecker Someone running the Apollo or O drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhamann Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 14 minutes ago, Poloturbo said: Someone running the Apollo or O drive? Yep. Already written lots about these on the forum. Others have too. Try a search of the forum. Prefer the curved highback on apollo than the Odrive highback. Nice binders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuxdiesel Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 Now/Jones are $600 for the top models. Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8summer Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 On 1/17/2024 at 5:34 PM, crackaddict said: Turns out the Nidecker Supermatic is a relatively soft binding with a lot of play between the highback and the heelcup. Worse, it has a massively thick heelcup. The Supermatic will add 37mm to the total length of your boot, better carving bindings are in the 13mm range (Now O-Drive, Drake Podium), the Flux XV adds 23mm. The Supermatic is not a carving binding. All these others are stiffer too. I took some measurements last week. I call it the BO factor (boot out factor): it's the total length the binding with a boot in it, minus the boot sole length. I also measured the height of the heelcup off the board. The lowest was the Drake Podium at 67mm, the highest heelcup was the Flow NX2 Carbon at 100mm. Supermatic was close at 95mm (which can somewhat make up a little for it's massive length). The O-Drive was 80mm, Flux XV was 75mm. The best binding for carving, in my opinion, is the Flow NX2 Carbon. This is by far the stiffest and it has the highest heelcup and the lowest BO factor at an astounding 2mm! If you're between sizes, size down. The large is a little wide in the toes for my size 9 Driver Xs. The F2 Eliminator is a soft flexing binding, the Flux CV is a soft flexing binding. Not recommended for real hard charging. I have yet to hold a Ride A-10 in my hands or any SP binding, but otherwise my survey of the best bindings marketed at carvers is relatively complete I think. I have hand flexed a lot of other bindings too and dismissed them immediately as too soft for me. If you want super stiff, the lowest BO factor (by far) and the highest heelcup, it's the Flow NX2 Carbon. If you prefer a little softer interface then the Drake Podium and the Now O-Drive are pretty stiff by today's standards and have the next lowest BO factors, a whole cm lower than the Flux XV and that's a whole cm you can take out of your waist width! The Flux XV is stiffer than these other two though, by a lot. They're like old school 2003 stiff. But the NX2 Carbon is the stiffest I have ever seen, ever. I can relax my toes and lean into the boot top like hard boots. The XV feels loose after riding the NX2 but until this season I would have said the XV was the stiffest and highest performing binding out there. The NX2 is also more comfortable than the XV, which cause me pain (on the outside of the calf, both legs) if I ride them hard more than a few days in a row. Just one man's experience and opinion. I fully recognize that not everyone wants an interface as stiff as mine. They may want to look at other Flow bindings though which probably also share a very low BO factor and high heelcup but I haven't measured any of them myself. I am curious though about other bindings. I would be interested in BO factor measurements for any other stiff bindings, or confirmation on my own measurements. All you need is a square and a tape measure. If this turns into a binding comparison thread let's change the title and put it into the soft boot reviews section please @Jack M @crackaddictI just took some measurements with ride A10 medium:heel loop height 65mm and 28mm out flow nx2 carbon large : heel loop 125mm and 10mm out both measurements were taken with same board front binding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabber Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 27 minutes ago, i8summer said: @crackaddictI just took some measurements with ride A10 medium:heel loop height 65mm and 28mm out flow nx2 carbon large : heel loop 125mm and 10mm out both measurements were taken with same board front binding I think both you and @crackaddict are measuring NX2 Carbon in Large, but the numbers are different. Perhaps James can clarify where he measured to get 100mm vs your 125mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8summer Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, slabber said: I think both you and @crackaddict are measuring NX2 Carbon in Large, but the numbers are different. Perhaps James can clarify where he measured to get 100mm vs your 125mm? Maybe it was measured at minimum forward lean on high back mine was measure 80% to max forward lean and also measured from top of the board Edited January 24 by i8summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackaddict Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, i8summer said: heel loop 125mm and 10mm out I'm not sure what "out" means. Please explain? Here is a photo of how I measure BO with two squares and my boot in the binding. (If the binding wasn't mounted I could have just pushed it back against a wall.) So for the Flow NX-2 Carbons set near the highest forward lean both squares actually touch the boot, so the BO factor is zero. (I had measured 2mm last time, maybe forward lean has changed). I remeasured the height also, 103mm today (100 last time). Judging by @i8summer's photo, mine is set 10 to 15% more forward. Let me know @i8summer how the ride A-10 compares measured in this way? Sweet looking binding. How far are the squares (or wine boxes) from the boot? Edited January 24 by crackaddict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8summer Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, crackaddict said: I'm not sure what "out" means. Please explain? Here is a photo of how I measure BO with two squares and my boot in the binding. (If the binding wasn't mounted I could have just pushed it back against a wall.) So for the Flow NX-2 Carbons set near the highest forward lean both squares actually touch the boot, so the BO factor is zero. (I had measured 2mm last time, maybe forward lean has changed). I remeasured the height also, 103mm today (100 last time). Judging by @i8summer's photo, mine is set 10 to 15% more forward. Let me know @i8summer how the ride A-10 compares measured in this way? Sweet looking binding. How far are the squares (or wine boxes) from the boot? @crackaddictWhat I meant by out is heelcup sticking out but it doesn’t mean much it’s all relative to board width cause it didn’t measured with my boot in the binding. Edited January 24 by i8summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackaddict Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 59 minutes ago, i8summer said: What I meant by out is heelcup sticking out but it doesn’t mean much it’s all relative to board width No, it means everything. You can that see the Ride adds length past the boot in the heelcup while the Flow does not. The amount that the Ride heelcup sticks out past the boot is the BO factor. Every mm of BO factor is another mm you have to add to your board width to keep the boot out potential constant. In the photo, the Ride looks like 15 to 20mm BO factor (neither binding has a toe cap so they both have zero to add in the front/toe area). So in theory, a 260 waisted board with the Flows would boot out about the same amount as that same board with a 275 or 280 waist using the Rides. That's a huge difference when I'm already pushing the limits of width for my builders and still fighting to avoid booting out. With my new Flows I have been able to drop the risers on most of my boards. Now I want four more pairs so I don't have to keep moving them around from board to board! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8summer Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Picture doesn’t due justice or weird angle maybe but there’s 10mm BO on the ride a10. I agree it definitely looks more than that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhamann Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 The a-10 is an ankle breaker! Facts. Weak ankle strap in relation to rest of the binding. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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