Donek Axis Question

[mnfusion]

Ok, I've been riding for 15 some years now and and both a hard boot and soft boot set up. What I want is a soft boot set up that I can still lay an edge with with my other non-hard boot friends. I have a size 7 foot and ride Burton SIs (step ins work much better in the small hills of Minnesota IMO). I have a pair of Burton Driver boots so stiffness will not be an issue. I have a Donek board already and love it, so I was looking at the Axis. I was wondering with the 21.5 cm waist and my small feet if it would work for me. Also any opinions on the board from those who have rode it would be great. Thanks.

[Donek]

I'd probably recommend an incline. I have seen some guys ride the axis with catek freeride bindings. It really depends on what angles you're willing to go with and how aggressively you pressure the edge. If you want to know how your boots/bindings will fit on the board, cut a piece of cardboard to 21.5cm (8.5in) wide and place your boots/bindings on it. You'll get a pretty good sense of how they will fit and what angles will work. On second thought, a standard piece of paper is 8.5in X 11in, so you can set your boots/bindings on top of a piece of paper to get a feel for the width/angles.

[mnfusion]

A response from Donek itself! WOW! Not the answer I was hoping for but I trust it.

Let me try phrasing what I am looking for another way. One of my first snowboards was a Burton PJ with the flex bindings (3-strap) and freestyle boots. I could and still can lay that board on its side. I loved having a carving board with the freedom and feel of soft boots. That is what I am looking for, a PJ calibur board. I could probably still ride the PJ I have but it is old and beat up and besides I want todays technology, not 15 year old. With that said, does anyone have any suggestions? Could Donek or someone else build a board that could ride like the PJ did? Thanks?

[lonerider]

Originally posted by boarderboy73

A response from Donek itself! WOW! Not the answer I was hoping for but I trust it.

Let me try phrasing what I am looking for another way. One of my first snowboards was a Burton PJ with the flex bindings (3-strap) and freestyle boots. I could and still can lay that board on its side. With that said, does anyone have any suggestions? Could Donek or someone else build a board that could ride like the PJ did? Thanks?

What was wrong with his suggestion for a Donek Incline? Donek does custom shapes, so you definitely can get whatever you want made (Prior snowboards is another option). With my Donek Incline I can get the board to around 60-70 degrees on its edge.

[bobdea]

along with some burton or another brand of plastic bindings

riding high angles with softies does not work well for most unless you use a three strap binding, at that point why not just get some super soft hard boots

[Galen]

I experimented with various boards for carving in softies last year, including a prior 4wd(21cm waist) F2 SpeedCross(22.5cm waist) Prior mens freeride, and a Rad Air LSD(both around 24cm), using Catek freerides, which blow away any of the Burton 3 straps (torque/system/freeride). while soft carving on a 21cm waist is do-able, I found it a little dodgy. The F2 felt just about right for carving in softies, 23cm would be better. the prior mens free ride and Rad Air were also very good, but the round tails wont give you the "hook" you may be wanting. Currently I"m wearing Burton Ions, size 7 1/2, riding 50/45 on the 4wd and 45/40 on the Speedcross. I dont remember what I was riding on the mens free ride or rad air, probably around 40/35. Hope this helps some.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Could you really manage an Axis on soft boots? Galen, did the Prior 4WD work with softies? I know they're typically softer than an Axis of the same length. I should think the Incline would provide all the performance you could want in softies. What is the Donek you've already got?

[Galen]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

Could you really manage an Axis on soft boots? Galen, did the Prior 4WD work with softies? I know they're typically softer than an Axis of the same length. I should think the Incline would provide all the performance you could want in softies. What is the Donek you've already got?

Yes, it "worked", but that's about it. Personally, I found the 4wd to narrow for softies, and to soft for hard boots, even with burton race plates and 413's.If I could do it over, I would go with the axis for hard boots, from what I've heard. Just my preference, i prefer stiffer boards, and the 4wd isn't any stiffer then the freeride boards I'm used to, and I got the quad glass, which is supposed to be they're stiffer option..

[mnfusion]

Nothing is wrong with the Incline except that it is the Donek I already have. I do love it. I just want to rail harder. I'm currently riding a 155cm ( I am 5'6", @150lbs). Would a longer board help? Or better yet, what would a longer board do for me. I do ride agressive, really attacking the hill. Should I ride steeper angles? I currently ride a 27 in front and a 12 in the rear.

Soft hard boots? I never knew they made such a thing. I thought a hard boot was a hard boot. Who makes such a thing? How do they differ from a normal hard boot? How much stiffer are they from my Burton Drivers?

As I said before, I have a hard boot set up. I'm just trying to get more carving performance in a soft set-up. Thanks.

[mnfusion]

BTW, Galen you said it right. I'm looking for that 'hook'.

[mnfusion]

So I was surfing the 'search' function and came across threads concerning asym boards. I didn't know they still made these things. How much is the #one board? I went to the site and saw 1500fr. I don't know how to convert that. Anyone have anyother opinions on this? It seems like a good choice since I want to stay on soft boots and I did love my PJ. Will Donek or some other custom builder build one? If so, how much. Again, any help and opinion in this area is appreciated. I love carving but just don't like the hard boots. Thanks.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by boarderboy73

Nothing is wrong with the Incline except that it is the Donek I already have. I do love it. I just want to rail harder. I'm currently riding a 155cm ( I am 5'6", @150lbs). Would a longer board help? Or better yet, what would a longer board do for me. I do ride agressive, really attacking the hill. Should I ride steeper angles? I currently ride a 27 in front and a 12 in the rear.

Soft hard boots? I never knew they made such a thing. I thought a hard boot was a hard boot. Who makes such a thing? How do they differ from a normal hard boot? How much stiffer are they from my Burton Drivers?

As I said before, I have a hard boot set up. I'm just trying to get more carving performance in a soft set-up. Thanks.

I see, my misunderstanding, I thought you meant a Donek Alpine board. I'm 5'8" 150 lbs myself. For maximal carving I was riding 36/30 angles with Catek Freerides. The Freerides are alright... but I like my Nidecker Carbons better, they aren almost as powerful... but they let you use your own ankle and calf muscles more. If all you want to do is rail harder, then definitely a longer board will help as it gets you more edge length to support your weight. In my opinion there is always somewhat a tradeoff between stability and playfulness when you go longer. I ride my Incline 155 in the park, but I doubt I would ride say a 164 in the park personally.

Since you already have a Donek and are considering going longer about about a Rad Air Tanker? People here swear by these boards and ride them using both softboots AND hardboots and say that not only are these boards great for powder, but for railing turns as well. I'm thinking about getting on myself, but I like shorter boards, so I was going to go with a 162 or 164 and not the 177 or 182 available, but did guys who like have "big guns" ride 200cm Tankers!!!

Soft hard boot is a relative term. Basically they are referring to freecarve model boots versus super stiff race boots (my generalization) like the Raichle/Deeluxe 224, 324, or Lemans. These will still be *much* stiffer than your Drivers and nothing really like a soft boot - most guys here can't stand riding softboots so that is their "soft boot" and in general always end up converting their softboot setups into a pseudo-hardboot setups.

If you are looking for that "hook" I think you should probably look for a BX board with a flat or nearly flat tail (as opposed to an asym). Whoa, all weird with the need forum style. So some board suggestions

Madd BX

F2 Eliminator Ltd

Volkl Cross

Um... yea, good luck!

[NateW]

What is it you want out of your next board?

Are you looking for a setup that will work well with moderately higher angles (45/40) or do you want to keep your current stance? That will affect your choice of width.

Do you want to be able to carve tighter turns? Bigger arcs? Higher speeds? Or do you feel like your current board doesn't stay hooked up in faster carves? That will affect your choice of sidecut radius.

Why do you prefer soft boots over hard?

FWIW, I have spent the last couple season on a board with a 21cm waist, riding 55/50 angles in "soft" hard boots (Raichle 324) and I really liked that setup (I'm going for higher angles and thus a narrower waist on my next setup though). The angles could probably have been a bit lower, but if you go much lower you'll probably have issues with toe and heel drag.

Prior to that I rode a board with a 23cm waist and 45/40 angles (same boots). Prior to that I rode freeride boards around 25cm at the waist, at 45/30 angles (same boots). Going narrower just makes me want to go even narrower... I have yet to find a drawback, other than not being able to do nose-grabs anymore. :)

[mnfusion]

Like I said earlier, I have both a hard boot set up (a FP with race plates and furnace boots) and a soft set (Donek Incline with Burton step-ins). If I ride my race board with friends I'm down the hill before they know what hit them and then I end up waiting for them to catch up. I want a soft boot set up so I don't have to be 'on' all the time. The Incline is just not doing it for me. It doesn't give me that 'hook' I crave. I was looking at my old PJ and remembering how I used to rail on that board with sorels and that got me wondering if there was anything out there today that rides like that.

Why soft boots you ask? I guess I'm still in to that old school soul that used to exist before the jibbers and everything became so specialized. I'm not a trickster. I'm a 32 year old lake surfer that rides not just for the rush but for the Zen side of the sport. Things don't need to be serious for me. I just want to ride and have fun. My fun happens to be clean, deep carves. I like my baggy pants, my clunky easy-to-walk-in boots, now I'm just missing the board that can hold an edge better than my Incline. I want the 'hook' my PJ used to give.

I'm not looking for a tight turning board like a pipe board, but a board that carves a radius like a Burton Custom, but I want to be on softboots.

Hope this helps explain a little more what I'm looking for.

[bobdea]

what I mean is something like the burton freecarve or some of the old raichle three buckle boots but not the 413, way back in the mid 90s they made a boot that was super soft, it might have been the 121 or 122 but don't quote me on that

once in the binding it would be pretty much the same as a driver is in the binding but maybe more forward flex due to not having a strap bunching up on the front of your boots side to side it would be a good bit stiffer

[lonerider]

I don't actually own a Rad Air... but they are the next thing on my purchase list. Here is a post a great rider named PSR (who doesn't roam this forum anymore due to political reasons) gave to me. You can see him riding a Rad Air Tanker 200cm on hardboots

here (it's incorrect listed as a "Burton" Tanker...) So the Reto sounds like another good choice.

Lonerider, I prefer the Smaller sizes in the park. My 172cm would be a bit large at some of the smaller hill's 'kid's parks' nearby, but is fine at larger resort's parks where there's some room to play.The 162 feels plenty nimble most anywhere. The 182,um,gotta pick your jumps a bit more carefully, as tight-trannied landings are not so fun on this board.

The reason for the 'short' edge contact on Tankers is because thay have a longer upturned section of nose than is the norm these days. The tails are taller than some noses on other companies boards. This makes for great soft-snow performance, and dosen't seem to affect spin-ability too much, plus, hey, Rocket Airs are possible!

The P.O.D. is the 'skinny' park/pipe/freestyle board, with a centered feel to it, and is not-too-stiff at either end, but carvable still.

The World Wide is similar to the POD, but for wider feet, and has some big sizes (161,165) that are solidly able as all-mountain freeride boards.(A friend of mine who's 180lbs,6 ft. tall, likes the 152+157 W.W. for 'jibbin'!)The added width means that these are good in softer snow, and are actually really nice woods boards!

The Sappa is skinny-ish, and has a really nice flex, soft enough at the nose to go get freshies, and just stiff enough off of the tail to ollie small cars. I think it's a great pipe board, but it has a good freerider feel to it, almost fast enough to consider using it in BX races. It's light,and tough, plus it just rides Smooth. It's what the Burton Balance wanted to be, actually.

The Reto,um,is a Weapon. It's quite fast, carves super(better than an Axis of equal size IMHO) with unreal edge feel, and is an awesome BX board. It's made to be a fast-ish freeride board that still park/pipe friendly. Yet, it works SO well as a GinsuKnife when set-up with Cateks, and I'm comfy enough on mine to go Racing (gates or BX) on it.I really like the Tail, which allows for insane airborn edge-changes or fairly high Ollies. It's only 'weakness' is in light pow, where the stiffer nose makes 'feeling' the snow a tad tough to do, so you work a little harder in freshies than you would on a WorldWide or Tanker.

The Tankers are currently the best Longboards out there. The shape and flex let them handle any off-piste snow with confidence. The boards have great edge hold and edge feel. However, it's the versatility that still boggles my mind (and I'm old school, where I Expect one board to ride well where-ever I wanna go). These are great all-mountain boards, and they will go places other boards will just not go. And, they'll do that with speed, style, and an ease that just puts a big ol' grin on your face. Best of all, they're still pretty light, and easy to handle. You ride pretty much the same as you'd normally do, only you'll be haulin' along about 30% faster than usual. It does take a bit to re-figure you launch speeds on some jumps, but at least the board's size usually will make the landing easier.

[Derf]

Actually, PSR is riding a Tanker 182 in this video, not a 200.

This and other posts got me thinking about a freeride board with hardboots for next winter...

[NateW]

Derf: I did the freeride-board-with-hard-boots thing for a while and thought it was great, but in retrospect I just wish I had gotten into narrower boards sooner. Narrower boards just feel more agile, holding an edge is easier, etc. Your mileage may vary of course. :)

boarderboy: I don't see a connection between boots and speed, but I do see a connection between sidecut radius and speed. Smaller radius -> tighter turns, more fun to ride at lower speeds. Big radius -> gotta go fast to make good (fun) turns. I haven't seen many hard boot boards with radii under about 10m, but they do exist.

$0.02

[Derf]

Derf: I did the freeride-board-with-hard-boots thing for a while and thought it was great, but in retrospect I just wish I had gotten into narrower boards sooner. Narrower boards just feel more agile, holding an edge is easier, etc. Your mileage may vary of course. :)

Thanks for the Reply NateW. I was thinking of this for suboptimal snow conditions (spring, crud, powder that turned into moguls, stuff like that). I am still keeping my freecarve board for most of my riding. A freeride board also has the advantage of being able to but soft binding instead of plate binding when conditions require it (trees, real pow).

[bobdea]

Like I said earlier, I have both a hard boot set up (a FP with race plates and furnace boots) and a soft set (Donek Incline with Burton step-ins). If I ride my race board with friends I'm down the hill before they know what hit them and then I end up waiting for them to catch up. I want a soft boot set up so I don't have to be 'on' all the time. The Incline is just not doing it for me. It doesn't give me that 'hook' I crave. I was looking at my old PJ and remembering how I used to rail on that board with sorels and that got me wondering if there was anything out there today that rides like that.

Why soft boots you ask? I guess I'm still in to that old school soul that used to exist before the jibbers and everything became so specialized. I'm not a trickster. I'm a 32 year old lake surfer that rides not just for the rush but for the Zen side of the sport. Things don't need to be serious for me. I just want to ride and have fun. My fun happens to be clean, deep carves. I like my baggy pants, my clunky easy-to-walk-in boots, now I'm just missing the board that can hold an edge better than my Incline. I want the 'hook' my PJ used to give.

I'm not looking for a tight turning board like a pipe board, but a board that carves a radius like a Burton Custom, but I want to be on softboots.

Hope this helps explain a little more what I'm looking for.

you are in need of a mean BX type of ride like one of the wide Madds or maybe one of the custom builders will be able to tweak a all mountain deck so its wide enough for you to ride it with softies or stiffen up a freeride deck for you.

I highly recomend asking PSR, he knows his ****

[mnfusion]

I agree I think a BX board would work perfect. I was thinking the F2 Speedcross would be the one, but it looks like others think otherwise. I want a stiffer board with more of a flat tail. I like the idea of a custom, but money-wise a mass produced one would be cheeper.

Who is PSR? Is he a poster here? A custom builder elsewhere?

[bobdea]

He does not post here though he used to he can be found on the catek forum and a couple other forums

you could ask Shaggy (for contact info go here http://maddmikes.com/contactus.htm) if he has any of the Madd BX left, everyone who I have talked to that has ridden one claims they are as good as it gets

if you are interested in one of those and want some first hand info on what they ride like get ahold of Sfleck, he posts here and has ridden one quite a bit

I have ridden a couple BX decks that I would not recomend because when you lay into the nose they wash out or at least did with me, those would be the old palmers and the volkl boards but that was five years ago things could have changed

With the custom builders its a good idea to ask because they might have a template from someone else that was looking for the same thing or if you make a minor change sometimes it can be cheap

Take for example Coiler to go full custom its only $60 or so more.

Post in the classifieds, you might be able to find some insane deals

one thing that I think would work very well for you is the the coiler AM in the 23 cm width, from the hard booter perspective those boards are simply amazing in that they will put up with the biggest mistakes in technique and don't need to have much input at all to rip carves

with those size 7 feet of yours you probably could make a 23 cm waist work in softies

here are the specs for the AM series

169 AllMountain X-treme

running length 145

waist widths 19, 21.5, 23

sidecut 9.9

tail taiper 2

stance width 17 -> 20

inserts 2x4, 10

rider weight 150+

172 AllMountain

148

21.5, 23

10.5

2

17 -> 20

2x4, 10

150+

the bottom line is look around, don't rush unless you see a killer deal

I would say talk to Bruce at Coiler but you would be waiting a year for a deck to get one new

wow that turned into a long post

[mnfusion]

Thanks for the info. Does the Coiler AM have a flat or up-turned tail. Also, is there a pic of this board anywhere?

[lonerider]

Thanks for the info. Does the Coiler AM have a flat or up-turned tail. Also, is there a pic of this board anywhere?

PSR roams catek.com and freecarve.com a bit. The Coiler AM with a 23cm waist would be a great option for what you want... and it isn't a full custom... but good luck on getting one made. The waiting list is a full 2 years now (you won't be even able to get on the one-year list until Jan 2006) because all the gear-o-philes here are order like two boards a piece - hoarding them like gold or something . On the flipside, many of them usually get into money woes or quickly tired of their *custom* beauty and sell them for some great prices - so it works out for everyone. :D

[bobdea]

you can see on here http://www.kendo-sask.com/CoilerAM172/overview.jpg

thats Neil's board

look in the reviews section and for even more feedback on those boards http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=5131&highlight=173 or http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=4302&highlight=173

the best bet is to watch the classifieds like a hawk and ebay as well, in particular when all of us that have coilers now are trying to pay for our new boards

I won't be selling any of mine though