OT: waaaaaaay OT....

[Michelle]

I believe the universe is all about balance. Bad things happening means good things will happen later on. As much as what happened on the weekend sucked, something equally good will happen in the future. :)

Yeah, I used to believe that. Now I just think it's a load of crap. People say "It's better to have love and lost than not loved at all" . More crap. Maybe they've never had their heart ripped out, stomped on, and then kicked around for fun.

Allee, I feel for ya. I thought Aisling and I were the only girls here with boy troubles. So sorry, what a jackass!

[Michelle]

Try a Silver Oak wine sometime, you won't be disappointed.

If I let you ride my bike I am afraid that you might ride it better than I do. I'll come by in May/June and we'll go for a spin. If you prefer I'll bring the off road bike and we can have some real fun.

Be sure to keep the dreams alive and go big!!

I'd love either! I have a Yamaha XT enduro that I've been wanting to get off road, but need to get some "off road" gear first. It also needs new tires. But since my car took a header last week, it's now my only transportation and I am LOVIN' it!! :biggthump

Bring it on Bluebird! But you'll have to bring the Silver Oak as well.

[Blue Bird]

I'd love either! I have a Yamaha XT enduro that I've been wanting to get off road, but need to get some "off road" gear first. It also needs new tires. But since my car took a header last week, it's now my only transportation and I am LOVIN' it!! :biggthump

Bring it on Bluebird! But you'll have to bring the Silver Oak as well.

You're on! I'll be calling you out when the snow disappears!

So much gear to buy and working next door to a dealership, how convenient. Hopefully the owner is into hardbooting.

[Allee]

Get him to babysit a bunch of hyperactive 3-5 year old boys -- with only one of each type of toy, of course -- for an entire day and then ask if he still wants to have kids.

This is the thing that really cracks me up. He's not good with kids. His four year old niece really doesn't like him that much (although to be fair she doesn't see him often), and he just doesn't have the "kid vibe" - you know how you can just tell that some people have a real empathy with children? I never get that from him. Not to mention that every time one of my animals vomits or craps anywhere, he won't even get out of bed until I've cleaned it up, just the sight of it makes him gag - so the thought of him up to his elbows in baby poo always makes me smile. Apparently, it's different when it's your own ...

Oh well, guess that's what the wife/girlfriend is for. I won't be signing up for that gig.

Maybe I should sign him up for "Crash Test Mommy". I always get a huge kick out of that program - capable, professional adults reduced to quivering wrecks in the space of a weekend. Too funny.

Enough. Rant over. Time to plan some hiking trips with the girls.

[bartron]

Yeah, I used to believe that. Now I just think it's a load of crap.

Well, that's how thing have worked out for my friends and I. In my case, something bad happening in my love life was followed by something good happening in some other part of my life.

Now that I think about it, it's just like the similar saying they have in the investment world. I think it goes something like "From downfall comes opportunity". I believe the idea is to get the people to stop thinking about the downfall and start looking at the new opportunities that have arisen. Those who handle layoffs (I forget the real name for them, but I think it's something like "Reintegration agent") say that kind of stuff to those who just got laidoff.

People say "It's better to have love and lost than not loved at all" . More crap. Maybe they've never had their heart ripped out, stomped on, and then kicked around for fun.

They probably have. But they bounced back successfully and are always in a happy, working relationship at the time they say that. Let's face it, it's a really easy thing for a person to say and believe in when it works for them. Just once, I'd like to hear someone who just got dumped bad say "It's better to have loved and lost than not to loved at all". I won't hold my breath waiting. :)

It's kind of like the statement "Get a job !".

'later...

[Allee]

We used to have a similar saying amongst the bodybuilders I was working out with. "He who says it is better to try and to fail ... has never dropped the weight on his head".

[bartron]

This is the thing that really cracks me up. He's not good with kids. His four year old niece really doesn't like him that much (although to be fair she doesn't see him often), and he just doesn't have the "kid vibe" - you know how you can just tell that some people have a real empathy with children? I never get that from him. Not to mention that every time one of my animals vomits or craps anywhere, he won't even get out of bed until I've cleaned it up, just the sight of it makes him gag - so the thought of him up to his elbows in baby poo always makes me smile. Apparently, it's different when it's your own ...

(shaking my head) what an idiot. He's a jerk alright.

Oh well, guess that's what the wife/girlfriend is for. I won't be signing up for that gig.

Sounds to me like you would have had more work than you do now if you did sign up.

'later...

[bartron]

We used to have a similar saying amongst the bodybuilders I was working out with. "He who says it is better to try and to fail ... has never dropped the weight on his head".

:lol: Now that's funny.

'later...

[Michelle]

They probably have. But they bounced back successfully and are always in a happy, working relationship at the time they say that. Let's face it, it's a really easy thing for a person to say and believe in when it works for them. Just once, I'd like to hear someone who just got dumped bad say "It's better to have loved and lost than not to loved at all". I won't hold my breath waiting. :)

It's kind of like the statement "Get a job !".

'later...

SEE....It's definitely easy to say when you are in a happy relationship/job/etc. I guess everything is relative.

[dantheman0177]

Wow, looks like I've missed plenty in the last week or so of organising and stressing about a wedding. Very sorry to hear that Allee.

So for those who want happy relationship news, and for those who didn't know, I got married on the weekend.

Aisling, does this mean I am off the thread???

[LeeW]

I'd love either! I have a Yamaha XT enduro that I've been wanting to get off road, but need to get some "off road" gear first. It also needs new tires. But since my car took a header last week, it's now my only transportation and I am LOVIN' it!! :biggthump

Bring it on Bluebird! But you'll have to bring the Silver Oak as well.

Lemme guess, you got it from across the street? And have you tried the off road section out in the Dillon Cemetary area?

[Allee]

Wow, looks like I've missed plenty in the last week or so of organising and stressing about a wedding. Very sorry to hear that Allee.

So for those who want happy relationship news, and for those who didn't know, I got married on the weekend.

Thanks you Dan, that's very sweet. And congratulations on your wedding, but in the picture you posted, you don't look very happy. Aren't you supposed to grin like an idiot on your wedding day, or are just worried that Vanessa is about to get blown off the pier? :)

[Neil Gendzwill]

This is the thing that really cracks me up. He's not good with kids. His four year old niece really doesn't like him that much[snip]

Hate to be defending the guy but... I have a friend who, by all outward appearances, hated kids. He was always stiff and awkward around them, tried to talk to them like little adults, never thought he'd have kids. So he gets married (another thing we never thought he'd do) and has a kid. Initially he was stiff and awkward, but over 2 years he's relaxed and he's a very devoted dad. If you look at how tight his own family is, then you start to understand how that happened.

People change their minds on this stuff. Never thought I'd want kids, and then I did. Mind you, I like kids and they like me, so not so surprising. But I was pretty vehement up until I was 30 or so and now I've been a dad for 14 years.

Anyways, don't want to downplay the suckage of it, but like I said before if he really feels that way, he made the right call.

[Allee]

If that's what he wants, that's what he should have. I hope it's everything he ever wanted, and to be fair this was a really hard call for him to make. Guess he thought he made his peace with it, and when push came to shove, turns out that wasn't quite the case. Maybe it's the Catholic upbringing, maybe it's because his sister has one, maybe it's simply biology at work.

As for me, I'm one of those "weird people" that doesn't want kids, and I've known this from very young. My ex husband and I agreed on it when I married him at 20. My mum was pregnant again when I was 12 - she loves to tease me about how, when she told me, the look on my face was one of pure horror...

Lots of people have lots of theories - for the record, I had a great childhood and my parents are still happily married after 43 years - but I liken it to my aversion for brussel sprouts. There is nothing rational about it, I wasn't scared by brussel sprouts as a child, I just don't like them and don't want to eat them...

So many people tell me "you'll feel different when you get older" and "it's different when it's your own". Probably the same people who tell gay men "it's just a phase" and "you just haven't met the right girl yet". :)

I'm not going to go into this too much here - I know there are a whole heap of proud dads on this forum, and good for you guys - it takes different strokes to move the world ... just remind me not to date another damn Catholic.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Wasn't meant to be a criticism of you - it's none of anybody's damn business whether you want kids or not. It's a perfectly valid choice. We were married for 5 years before we decided to have kids, and endured all the crap you probably get - we were selfish, blah de blah. Mostly it's people who are feeling trapped by their own kids. We're happy with our decision, but there are some real sacrifices made to have kids and I'm completely cool with people who would rather enjoy their lives child-free.

[Allee]

No worries. I'm quite happy being strange. :)

[Aisling]

Wow, looks like I've missed plenty in the last week or so of organising and stressing about a wedding. Very sorry to hear that Allee.

So for those who want happy relationship news, and for those who didn't know, I got married on the weekend.

Aisling, does this mean I am off the thread???

awww naw dan, you're still in... you'll be our insider on marriage LOL

[Aisling]

allee, nothing strange with not wanting kids... i mean seriously... SOME people have to not want to procreate or we'd be overcrowded... in fact... maybe some MORE people should consider not having children... i can think of a few people who oughta be banned from it... but i digress ;)

[Dave Pushee]

Boy does this thread ever wander. I guess I might as well nudge it along with a long rambling story.

I'm a pretty slow learner, but one thing that I've come to realize over the past (almost) 60 years is that you just never know how things will turn out. That's not a bad thing as otherwise life would get too boring.

I got married right after college ('69). We didn't want kids then, because I was in grad school, and the world was a mess (it always is, but what did we know at the time).

The Viet Nam war was on, and the US Army said I was theirs. It could have really sucked, but instead I got 3 years in Germany and we got a chance to see and ski a lot of western europe. But, kids didn't fit into that picture either. During this era, my wife worked as a blood chemistry tech in the Army hospital. She would break out in hives whenever she had to deal with kids.

So, I finished my hitch with the Army and after a summer of touring Europe, we returned to the states and eventually both got decent jobs and bought a house. So, we thought - OK, it maybe we should have kids.

Didn't happen (at least not until we forgot it was possible ). What a surprise it was in '78 when we learned that it was, indeed possible. We had been married for almost 10 years when Matt was born. You can get pretty set in your ways in that amount of time.

We did adjust. Joan didn't get hives. It turned out that we actually were capable of functioning as parents and that kids really are fun to have around (unless they are 2 years old or teenagers).

Somehow, there is something about a toddler just over a year old that makes you want another one. Luke was born almost 2 years after Matt, and Ben was born after another 2 years. We might have been slow learners, but once we figured it out, there was no stopping us :D We did finally decided though that enough was enough.

We had our challenges, and we had to figure it out as we went along, but now we've got 3 sons graduated from college and mostly well launched in the world.

The moral of the story? I don't know, but I keep coming back to the Forrest Gump philosophy - you never know what you are going to get. Go along for the ride and work with what you are given. All in all, it has been a pretty good ride so far.

If we had never had kids, I probably would have never taken up snowboarding. We were on a ski vacation when the boys were 6/8/10 and Matt asked if he could try snowboading - the rest is history.

[Steve Prokopiw]

My wife and I used to think being instructors in a busy skischool was the best birth control. Then after about eight years all the little stuff didn't bother us anymore. We still didn't know about bringing a kid or two into this screwed up world...well, I may not be a better man for it but the world is now a better place for the fact that my two incredible boys are in it.

[Fleaman]

Allee, I haven't met you yet, but we will someday at sunshine, so here is my take

When you come home from work, your dogs are licking your face and would do anything to get you to pet them and give them a treat..

I consider myself a good parent. I get home from work before my kids get home from daycare. If I am napping and my daughter can't find me, she runs around the house until she does.

If I am in the kitchen cooking, she comes in running screaming DADDY!

The best 3 seconds of my day.

Some say you cant have a life when you have children. We strive to include them in every activity. We take them into the backcountry and camping etc. hoping to pass on our passions to them.

Life becomes normal in no time. the inconvenience of having kids is far outweighed by the satisfaction and the hilarity of having little ones.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/fleagalbaum/Kate%20and%20Matt/Picture005.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

[skipuppy]

I know two couples that decided they would never have kids. One of them (the other involves my step-mom so its not really one hundred percent applicable because she has us now) I met through the ski club in Cali. They go skiing ALL of the Time and have a blast. They love children, children love them, but they clearly said that they wanted to live their life this way and for THEM. Plus, its a TWENTY PLUS year commitment unless you plan on being one of those parents that kicks them out of the house at Eighteen and they are on their own for the higher ed.

I dont know Allee but I think that she knows all of the arguments people say for having kids and understands them. Its just a matter of assessing your lifestyle and priorities in life. If spawning isnt it then alright

[Allee]

Jason, your kids are cute, and I know you love them to bits. BUT this for me is not a pros and cons thing. There is nothing to rationalise here. I just don't want. Any more than I want to be an astronaut or a firefighter. Give me kittens and puppies and watch me turn into a gooey mess, but kids ... sorry, just nothing there.

There are few things permanent in this life, but kids are one of them. If you don't like them, you can't send them back. And I couldn't imagine anything worse than for whatever misguided reason, having a kid only to discover that you were right all along. All kids should be wanted. Many years ago I watched someone who was ambivalent make this mistake, and have the cutest little girl that she couldn't stand the sight of. It's one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

I know that there are plenty of guys out there who feel the same way, I just have to find one. Talk about cutting my options though - I signed on to an internet dating site the other day. After I loaded my options I had 340 matches - when I entered that I wanted someone with no kids, who didn't want kids, we're down to 7. Michelle and Aisling think they've got it tough. :)

[willywhit]

I wonder : What's this woman really like?

And can it be she's interested in me?

Is this the moment I should pick to strike

And ask her if tomorrow she'd be free

For dinner, or a drink, or maybe lunch?

I shouldn't move too quickly, I suppose,

Unless I can rely upon my hunch

That she'd accept whichever one I chose.

She's smiling at me; no, she's turned away,

But only to introduce me to her friend.

I'm fumbling in a game I used to play

And trying to remember how it ends.

Relax, you fool, this planning does no good :

Just be yourself, as if you ever could.

[Michelle]

Lemme guess, you got it from across the street? And have you tried the off road section out in the Dillon Cemetary area?

Nope, bought it used and haven't done much off roadin' yet. Don't have any gear, but that will change soon :) Got a great catalog for that kind of stuff.

Look out summer! Michelle's on 2 wheels....