Catek-burton Hybrid :classified Photo

[alpinegirl]

i agree (if that's enough of an explanation of this post, please skip ahead to the next person. this is afternoon babble) with much of what the last few peeps have stated. with the exception that i think the general population would benefit from learning in a softer boot with two strap bindings (why are we teaching them ankle movements when they can barely move their ankles in the crap rental gear we have? my area's rentals are those fabulous switch step-ins. i strongly dislike the gear we offer)

i support the whole two strap/ focus on ankle movement thing. i honestly believe that ankle movements are essential in alpine riding (finer motor movements allowing smaller adjustments on the fly). i've had folks tell me that the movements i go through when trying on boots are unnatural, but how on earth am i going to manage increasing edge pressure when my knees are already scraping the snow if i don't use a little plantar flexion?? i tend to blow myself out of toeside turns with my knees when i am not paying attention, in both soft and hard boots. although i prefer stiffer soft boots, i do not rely on the cuff to pressure my toeside edge effectively. it can be a lot of fun to simply drop the knees to the snow to carve, but there's a time and a place for that.

do i find the catek's appealing? of course i do. and i eagerly anticipate the evolution of that binding, to match the Madd BX board i drool over.

but until that time, i will continue trusting that i can carve on just about any gear. even if it's burton's first women's boot with matching soft bindings (and a base plate that flexes so much it seems as though you could rip the binding off the board) on a noodle of a board, or in hard boots on a board which bordy would classify as "too much." ("too much" = 173cm renntiger for my size and available slopes)

i'll just have to have fun on whatever gear i have that enables me to slide down a hill sideways. provided of course that there is snow.

[Bordy]

The 173 you speak of in no way shape or form is two much for any girly athlete. Truth is you ladies make out the best because most stock alpine product is so soft that most girls I know are bending through it with out any problems, and they dont have to call some custom builder to get a board made for them saving all the ladies i ride with thousand in the long run. If you said I am out on one of (insert pro guy racers name hear) and he weighs in at 275 and I tip the schales at 135 then you may be a bit over gunned. My SL board is a 164.5 only 8.5 cm smaller then your stick and it the smallest alpine board I ride competativly. I do some times get a a few turns in on 149 up to 220 gear also. i'm sure you could piolot a 220 if the flex was correct for your weight.

When I said "too much" I ment more board then the rider can bend or ride at there current level and weight. Some times a over zellous sales man can sell some one gear that is unridable by the rider due to size and weight issues. Thats what I ment by to much.

[felix]

Hi, whats your input on using these for Bordercross.

In Europe most people either use a Powerstrap as 3. Strap or use some custom tongues to stiffen up the boot in order not to ruin the knees whem flatting out.

I just think it is unfair to say that 3-strap bindings have no sense.

1. Hardboots suck with low angles, so riding a Soft Boardercrossboard with hardboots, I can not work it properly.

However using a powerstrap setup on softies I can actually preserve good FS performance while still having the pros from Softies with low angles.

Maybee an original booster strap would be even better instead of such a hard 3. strap?

As well it's no bad option for heavy snow in the backcountry, i.e. having top conditions at the top but really sticky and heavy untracked snow at the bottom.

It is as well highly customizable, I use powerstrap only on rear foot except when Boardercrossing. For BigAir a stiff tongue seems more promising.

BTW: I started snowboarding long long ago on a hardboot setup. Raichle 123's it was if I remember correctly. But then switched over for 3 years to softies directly afterwards in order to be cool. However since many ears I do both again. Learning on an unforgiving racboard was a great think. I had to adapt proper technique from the first minute.

[felix]

There is even a 3-Strap binding from Proflex used by the French F2 Boardercrossteam and by some others. It is however pretty custom too.

However it seems that with the new Virus Boardercross there might be something new starting up. Lukas Gruener won directly his first race with the new equipment. Not much public about the board though.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

When I want to give my legs a break these and my Incline or NS T5 make a sick combo:))

Stevo, time to get serious about a setup for myself. Got the bindings. New boots on the way. Can you share any updates and refinements you have made?

Maybe a couple close ups from different angles?

Parts list ? Much appreciated. Bryan

[Jack M]

Stevo and Jack

You guys should check out the Head P10 which is being replaced this season.

Interesting! I can't seem to find any good pics on the web though.

[stevo]

Bryan I will take a few pics if you like...I must say that it is an extremely easy mod to make and I'm sure there are better ways to do it. I just did a quick proto to see how it would feel and react....With the third strap I can wear it loose or snug for a soft or stiff boot feel...or (like I usually do) honk it down for max edge control. Don't get me wrong I LOVE my hardboots and they fit me perfectly, I just like to change things up now and then...I think it makes me a better snowboarder.

[Guest jschal01]

You can run an Intuition alpine ski boot liner and get basically a soft stiff boot feel even without the 3d strap -- it should be stiff enough to give you boot bang. Or, for instance, a Driver/C14 (or C60, or whatever they're up to soon) combo, which is still not all that stiff, is still stiff enough for just about any softboot resort riding or backcountry, and is way too stiff and resposnive for some things.

I can see that a modern 3-strap binding might come in handy for some bx applications. The old Burton 3-straps, though, are/were nowhere near as suportive or responsive, even with the 3d strap, as, for instance, my current Missions with leather straps and Skybacks. If they were a big improvement over 2-straps for most purposes they'd still be making them.

If your hardboot setup isn't overly stiff, why not just switch the bindings over to a freeride or freestyle board if you want the hardboot feel but want to change things up a bit? The mods that people are showing look pretty cool to me, but since you already have hardboots I'm missing the point for trying to get softboots to do the same thing. I miss the oint a lot though. :)

[stevo]

I see what you are saying about the soft hardboots and it makes total sense. I'm not trying to duplicate any type of hardboot set-up...I was just giving my soft set-up more power while maintaining most of the movement/feel associated with softboots and the boards they work well on. Many years ago (in my Burton 3-strap Customs) I would look at the hardboot set-up and think it was perfect for me. It wasn't until I found BOL (and all the other cool people and links) that I discovered what it was all about AND my new obsession! I printed all of Jack's articles and read them over every week for months....thank you Jack. Now hardboots rule but sometimes I want to switch it up.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Bryan I will take a few pics if you like...I must say that it is an extremely easy mod to make and I'm sure there are better ways to do it. I just did a quick proto to see how it would feel and react....With the third strap I can wear it loose or snug for a soft or stiff boot feel...or (like I usually do) honk it down for max edge control. Don't get me wrong I LOVE my hardboots and they fit me perfectly, I just like to change things up now and then...I think it makes me a better snowboarder.

Thanks Stevo, love it!

Much appreciated.

Thanks Bryan

[stevo]

I sent you an email yesterday morning at the "webmaster" address

[lonerider]

Hi, I've been thinking about modding my Nideckers to add a third strap to the front binding (toeside power isn't a problem when I'm wearing my Salomon Malamutes, but when I wear my 32 Forecasts for park they are a little soft). I see SteveO's mod here, but I definitely recall a more lightweight design using only nylon webbing and perhaps a few rivets (person mentioning getting all the materials at a local shop). I've search the forums for hours now and can't find it with "binding mod" "third strap" "three strap" "webbing" "craft store" "craft shop" but can't find the post with the photos. I checked with a few other people on BOL but they only seem to recall the post, not find it.

So I'm checking if anyone who knows the post that I'm talking about and can link to it (i.e. if you author'd the post).

Thanks

[Galen]

Hi, I've been thinking about modding my Nideckers to add a third strap to the front binding (toeside power isn't a problem when I'm wearing my Salomon Malamutes, but when I wear my 32 Forecasts for park they are a little soft). I see SteveO's mod here, but I definitely recall a more lightweight design using only nylon webbing and perhaps a few rivets (person mentioning getting all the materials at a local shop). I've search the forums for hours now and can't find it with "binding mod" "third strap" "three strap" "webbing" "craft store" "craft shop" but can't find the post with the photos. I checked with a few other people on BOL but they only seem to recall the post, not find it.

So I'm checking if anyone who knows the post that I'm talking about and can link to it (i.e. if you author'd the post).

Thanks

Think this is what your looking for, over on Catek.

http://www.catek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110

[lonerider]

Think this is what your looking for, over on Catek.

http://www.catek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110

YES!!! I did do a search on Catek... but a much shorter and less comprehensive one.

Thank you

[Dr D]

I have seen switch x-types with a " high back strap" attached. seemed to work pretty good. I would like to see a soft boot that is higher up the leg. I think a lot of control would be gained by adding 3-4 inches of boot with a proper lace up system. also I think the third strap could be incorporated into the boot as the second strap is on the switch boots. either an integrated highback in the boot ala N-type or a high back with a flip hook to attach to the integrated third strap. I don't know if I am making sense but you could make the third strap idea step in and not have chair clearance problems or strap buckling time issues. I think it would be the ideal deep powder and crud setup. the main issue with soft boots now is they are midhigh. they feel like a lowcut three buckle hard boot. lets make a four buckle with a strap feeling soft boot.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Couple different designs.

Photos here.

Not mine. Well done!

http://www.oldsnowboards.com/pics/album125 Book mark it , "Hidden Gallery"

Funny , today I finally rode the Donek 180 custom with Cateks on it.

http://www.oldsnowboards.com/vids/donek180setup.wmv

Fast and quick turning. Wishing I had got the "Three Strap" done , but worked ok without. Look forward to doing this soon.

[Galen]

Couple different designs.

Photos here.

Not mine. Well done!

http://www.oldsnowboards.com/pics/album125 Book mark it , "Hidden Gallery"

Funny , today I finally rode the Donek 180 custom with Cateks on it.

http://www.oldsnowboards.com/vids/donek180setup.wmv

Fast and quick turning. Wishing I had got the "Three Strap" done , but worked ok without. Look forward to doing this soon.

Hey Bryan, whats the angles and waist width on that? My Freerides always seem a little dodgy on angles over 40*

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

To be honest Galen. I don't know.

Typically I put them where I always put them. Without an indicator they are always in pretty much the exact same place. Not steep enough!!!!

I am going to open the stance a bit and play with the canting just a touch.

Definitely missed having a DaKine "Spike" stomp pad on it today.

It was evidently fast snow for powder today? This board was quick and milked the run outs something un-real. Felt short of course to me. But I liked it and the low nose offered no resistance to the fresh.

Again, I don't know. It was a custom built by SWT's request by Sean. One of a kind. I was looking for some decent groomers to "Carve Test" it on, but it was too soft for a good test. Mike Tovino might know. He was paying pretty close attention to it a while back.

[Mike T]

It was a custom built by SWT's request by Sean. One of a kind. I was looking for some decent groomers to "Carve Test" it on, but it was too soft for a good test. Mike Tovino might know. He was paying pretty close attention to it a while back.

Sorry, I'm no help here... if it's "one of a kind" then it can't be the Delrossi model, which is a 23.5 waist. It could well be similar though, several pof the Tucker models listed on the Donek site are similar to existing templates save for the flex.

Ech, if only I weren't so swamped by work, I would have been at the mountain w/ Bryan today and could have seen it in action!

[Guest caseybuck]

My 3-strap conversion. I stole your idea on highback adjustment.Note the spacer that goes under the binding pad. (PVC) I think they look pretty good. Fairly ridgid, fairly light, very durable. The hardware is all snow sports quality, from other bindings, or stainless, including the extended spacer bolt. It gives the option of about 6 degrees for your back foot, and is very comfortable. The red spacers under the bindings were $40 and really help. The bindings have a very small profile, I had them on a board with an 18.2 cm waist. Also, you can see a little carefully trimmed off the right toe pad to reduce drag. The bindings are last year's Atomic Black Russians. The third straps were brand new k2 v-10 straps (the good ones). And yes, these are for sale for the right price. Email for more pics.

caseybuck@gmail.com

[sunbeam-lite]

Lonerider, have you ever used 3 strap bindings? I'll never forget the first day I went from 2 straps to 3 straps - I thought I was going to have to learn how to snowboard all over again. The toeside response and lateral support is 10 times that of any regular 2 strap binding. My Burton Flex bindings made me think that I would never need hardboots. I was actually "anti-hardboot" at one point. Then guess what happened - I finally tried hardboots, and I was like a dog being let off the leash at the beach. I instantly took off in the hardboots because I was so used to the feeling of having my lower leg actually controlling the board in 3-strap bindings. I'm actually designing (in the back of my mind anyway) a 3rd strap retro-fit kit for any 2-strap highback binding that we can market as a cheap way to try carving. 3-strap bindings are the perfect way to learn more precise edge control.

I was teaching both ski and snowboard in France in the late eighties and thru the nineties. I surfed the French style (read Jean Nerva and the huge frontside handplants etc)and was a hardbooter from the very beginning. Along came a beautiful french girl all covered in Oxbox gear and offered me a freestyle board... Free! Well... what could I say? To help with the transition she suggested the Burton Flex 3 and what can I say? 'kin hell, what a completely different ride though at the same time just so like hardbooting. Sadly I ripped the bindings off the board at landing time after an eight meter cliff jump! <laugh> All hail to Jake though... a return of the Flex could be a winner?!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Cool story!!! Good enough to raise this zombie thread!!

How is it in NZ? Do you stay there for the winter or return to Europe?