MillerLight60 Posted June 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 In the coming days/weeks I will attempt to locate, download and publish any videos I can find of me riding to give a better idea of my ability in an effort to clear up any unintentionally misconstrued first Impressions. Thank you for understanding. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rst Posted June 16, 2022 Report Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 3:42 AM, SunSurfer said: Don't get put off by the initial non-English text, and the narration in (?)Russian. There are extensive English subtitles and a graduated program of instruction. no words needed https://youtu.be/SqY2dSXY_lM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 16, 2022 Report Share Posted June 16, 2022 IMO, this video is the best "textbook" example. World Cup champion and board designer Sigi Grabner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rst Posted June 16, 2022 Report Share Posted June 16, 2022 53 minutes ago, Jack M said: IMO, this video is the best "textbook" example. World Cup champion and board designer Sigi Grabner. or this one)) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhil Posted June 16, 2022 Report Share Posted June 16, 2022 5 hours ago, rst said: no words needed https://youtu.be/SqY2dSXY_lM EC isn't a good example for a racer. The style was born on wide and quite steep slopes. Moreover it was meant to make carving on these slopes less tiring. Hence one of the points was to reduce the speed. Another problem you may face is almost complete lack of the angulation. It is obviously required for fully laid turns, however it also limits the conditions in which you can use EC. I mean it doesn't work that good on icy slopes. It is a good fun technique, and you shared probably the best tutorial. I just think it's not suitable for racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rst Posted June 17, 2022 Report Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 hours ago, skhil said: EC isn't a good example for a racer. The style was born on wide and quite steep slopes. Moreover it was meant to make carving on these slopes less tiring. Hence one of the points was to reduce the speed. Another problem you may face is almost complete lack of the angulation. It is obviously required for fully laid turns, however it also limits the conditions in which you can use EC. I mean it doesn't work that good on icy slopes. It is a good fun technique, and you shared probably the best tutorial. I just think it's not suitable for racing. I was not aware we are talking exclusively about racing in this thread [taking into account a video from first post] )) my point was there is a way to ride hardboot equipment and not a single word needed to explain the technique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhil Posted June 17, 2022 Report Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) That means you missed the previous thread. I'll leave a link here to avoid further misunderstanding. https://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/53636-one-of-the-many-race-courses-i-was-able-to-run-this-year/ Edited June 17, 2022 by skhil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.free Posted June 17, 2022 Report Share Posted June 17, 2022 8 hours ago, skhil said: EC isn't a good example for a racer. The style was born on wide and quite steep slopes. Moreover it was meant to make carving on these slopes less tiring. Hence one of the points was to reduce the speed. Another problem you may face is almost complete lack of the angulation. It is obviously required for fully laid turns, however it also limits the conditions in which you can use EC. I mean it doesn't work that good on icy slopes. It is a good fun technique, and you shared probably the best tutorial. I just think it's not suitable for racing. I believe that the basics of EC would help everyone, no matter what's your perspectives, carving or racing - doesnt matter, main idea is to start to rotate your hips into toe/heel side. Just angulation wont help you to carve deep, it has to be combined with rotational movement in your hips. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapos Posted June 17, 2022 Report Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Jack M said: IMO, this video is the best "textbook" example. World Cup champion and board designer Sigi Grabner. Is that rodeo hand Jack? One of my early inspirations for carving tech. Calm, balanced and confident. 10 hours ago, rst said: I was not aware we are talking exclusively about racing in this thread [taking into account a video from first post] )) my point was there is a way to ride hardboot equipment and not a single word needed to explain the technique Video from Ben is good - however you need to be "in the know" to fully understand what he is doing and why is he doing it. 6 hours ago, b.free said: ....main idea is to start to rotate your hips into toe/heel side.... hips is one thing, however EC requires rotation of upper body also, which in race tech would be considered a mistake (heelside start in minus position and toeside in plus position vs the opposite in EC). if you look at top riders (Nevin, Sigi, Benny) they ride with none to minimal rotation of the upper body. One definitely useful thing from EC is how quickly they are able to get back on the edge after a washout. Edited June 17, 2022 by slapos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 17, 2022 Report Share Posted June 17, 2022 10 hours ago, b.free said: Just angulation wont help you to carve deep, it has to be combined with rotational movement in your hips. Ehh, that's one way to skin this cat but no, it does not have to be combined with hip rotation. Racers generally avoid this. The goal of race technique, which IMO is the best, is for your hips and shoulders to remain aligned with your binding angles. In other words your bellybutton and chest ideally should be facing your toes, generally speaking. Of course everybody is different and some deviation from this may work better for you. New hardbooters coming from softboots typically rotate sideways towards the toeside edge of the board, especially on heelside. I see that in the OP's video. Often it's not enough to tell these people to face their toes, it just doesn't happen. So a lot of instruction out there (including my own) says to face the nose of the board. It's more effective instruction to get them to stop rotating sideways. Facing the nose of the board is better than facing sideways, but it's not as optimal as aligning with the binding angles. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.free Posted June 17, 2022 Report Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) You probably right Jack. I am not a racer, never been never will use race technique in my freecarving and EC. I love rotation and no or minimum angulation in my toe/heelsides. However still see hip rotation when watching GS competitions... Well maybe its just me.. Edited June 17, 2022 by b.free 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted June 17, 2022 Report Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 1/8 finals through to medal races, men and women, Beijing 2022. As above 1/8 finals through to medals. Edited June 24, 2022 by SunSurfer add PSL example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 Really depends on who you ask concerning alignment. You will hear different stuff pending the person. Ex; I've heard one should minus on heelside, or do the "b.a.d." counter-rotation; and plus on the toeside. But I've also heard one should stay neutral. Etc.. etc.. I have no idea. Unfortunately or fortunately; they all work to a degree after enough time on snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Ant Posted June 18, 2022 Report Share Posted June 18, 2022 In regards to grip and powering out of a turn, Jack is correct than a neutral alignment is superior and ideal... But for those after "good enough" generally trying to face the nose of the board does the trick. This is what I start riders with as well. So co-signed. One could liken this to squats: rotation destroys the explosion upwards (and will injure you... Maybe that part is mostly applicable to squats but racers can injure their back in ruts with too much rotation should something not go to plan). Flexion should come from the knees and a hip-hinge movement allows for power. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 19, 2022 Report Share Posted June 19, 2022 On 6/17/2022 at 10:06 PM, Odd Job said: Really depends on who you ask concerning alignment. You will hear different stuff pending the person. Ex; I've heard one should minus on heelside, or do the "b.a.d." counter-rotation; and plus on the toeside. But I've also heard one should stay neutral. Etc.. etc.. I have no idea. Unfortunately or fortunately; they all work to a degree after enough time on snow. I've never heard of any race coach recommending negative rotation on heelside, but I have not asked them all. Also true: if the snow is good enough, any competent technique or style works. We east coast peasants were ecstatic at MCC and Whitefish for what a relief the conditions were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapos Posted June 19, 2022 Report Share Posted June 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Jack M said: I've never heard of any race coach recommending negative rotation on heelside, but I have not asked them all. My comment was only for starting the turn in minus position and then going to slight plus. This comes from Sigi and Benny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 On 6/17/2022 at 4:25 PM, SunSurfer said: 1/8 finals through to medal races, men and women, Beijing 2022. To my eye and ear these conditions were pretty awesome, and some beautiful carving was on display. Especially by Her Royal Highness, Ester Ledecka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) Plenty of top level riders who ride with the line of their shoulders aligned with the long axis of the board on heelside (- stance) Nevin Galmarini is a good example. A few years ago I would have said the majority of top riders rode "-" on heelside. There were a few notable standouts who rode more with their shoulders relatively across the board (+ stance). Vic Wild, Sigi Grabner, and Ms Ledecka amongst them. (Need to edit the "+" video playlist examples. Also see Ester at Beijing above and Vic Wilda at Sochi Olympics.) Edited June 21, 2022 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 Yeah I absolutely don't know anymore. All I know is, if you had the balance of a Marvel comics superhero like Spiderman, you could probably ride one footed while eating a hot dog and still hold an edge on steep ice and podium. Something to be said about working on core strength, etc.... And using optimal technique to lower the bar for yourself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 howdy is there really a right way to have fun??? ... says who... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 58 minutes ago, west carven said: howdy is there really a right way to have fun??? ... says who... Only that you enjoy yourself. The thread is actually about technique for someone aiming for top level racing. Fun is secondary here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapos Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, SunSurfer said: Only that you enjoy yourself. The thread is actually about technique for someone aiming for top level racing. Fun is secondary here. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 11 hours ago, SunSurfer said: Plenty of top level riders who ride with the line of their shoulders aligned with the long axis of the board on heelside (- stance) Nevin Galmarini is a good example. Respectfully, I don't see it that way. I'd say in the majority of his heelsides in that video he is aligned with his bindings. Sometimes he gets behind. He is definitely nowhere near aligning with the nose of the board though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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