How to install APEX V2 plate?

[Pew]

I just got apex v2 plate 4x4 I don’t have any experience with plates.

I need some help to figure out how to put plate on my board

I tried to search installation guide or other information but all the links were broken or not exist anymore

[SunSurfer]

Checked my archives and I don't have an instruction leaflet for this plate. Lots of pictures though, and found a piece from AllBoardSports with how to use the washers in the kit to reduce slop in the system, plus a review from Daveo (an Aussie) in the archives here.

Apex V2 plate designed to be mounted with the sliding axle unit (alloy winged piece with slot in the vertical rather than a hole) at the front of the board. Fixed axle unit is mounted to the rear.

A plate of this design concept works as follows. Axles go through the holes in the reinforced part of the plate and attach the carbon fibre plate to the base units through the slots at the front and the hole at the rear. Split pins through the cross holes prevent the axles from falling out in use. The washers should go between, certainly the split pins and the alloy mounting units and probably also between the axle head and the mounting unit.

Under bending loads on the board, the straight line distance between the hole and slot  will shorten as the board curves underneath. So in the at rest position the front axle should have at least 1-1.5cm of slot length between it and the end of the slot closest to the nose of the board.

Aim to have the axles as far apart as the system and your binding insert pattern will allow. Longer interaxle distances give you greater torsion control over your board. This also means your bindings should sit well within the axles which is good. Binding centre close to the axle position leads to an unsteady "diving board" type feeling under foot. Mount the plate with as little bias to one end of the board or the other as possible. Mount your bindings centred between the axles' position, because it's these that determine the plates performance. This may or may not match the centre of the binding inserts on the plate.

I have lots of experience with isolation plates, but I have not assembled an Apex V2 plate. It may be that final assembly will involve an intial estimation of what will be the possible positions, then putting the alloy mounting units in place, verticals with hole/slot towards the ends, and gently tightening screws. Check that plate and axles fit together with slot as described, then finally tightening up the mounting screws to the board. Then slot in axles/washers, then place split pins to finally secure in place. From the photos I've got I can't see a way to assemble the plate fully then screw the assembled plate straight to the board.

Once you've got it assembled, test flex the board while it is supported on risers at tip and tail to make sure that the axles slide properly and allow the board to freely bend.

https://allboardssports.com/sg-and-apex-plate-testing-a-review/

Someone else with actual experience of the Apex V2 plate model assembly may contribute. I hope for your sake they do.

@daveo Are you able to help Pew make the most of his new-to him toy?

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by SunSurfer

[daveo]

I'm on it!

[lowrider]

Split pin so loops are facing forward so ice and snow will not pull on them

[daveo]

@Pew manual sent to your email. Any questions, feel free to ask. I think I ended up adding 1 extra washer to all axles to take up some slack.

A few people here have extensive experience with building and using plates including @SunSurfer @pokkis @Jack M. 

Anything I mention below is just my personal experience specifically with the Apex plate and may or may not be correct for you.

On 1/21/2022 at 6:02 PM, SunSurfer said:

Aim to have the axles as far apart as the system and your binding insert pattern will allow.

This may not be entirely correct. I think it should be dependent on your stance width, but also how your board responds to where the axles are placed. The manual may specify how they could be placed as a starting point. Might be diff for sl/gs, although not entirely sure. I think the axle positioning should be based on what makes the flex pattern of the board feel most natural perhaps, based on my experience.

My personal experience was going as wide as possible on the Kessler 168 would make the board turn too big and felt like the KST no longer felt like it should, felt almost like a huge single radius. The opposite was true for the narrowest inserts, which makes sense. I'm 190cm with a larger than average leg/body ratio and I settled on the middle position for the ASIP mounts and the outside position for the bindings. 

On 1/21/2022 at 6:02 PM, SunSurfer said:

Mount your bindings centred between the axles' position

This might not be the recommendation from Apex. I think they recommend middle of rear boot and front toe for axle positioning.

Edited January 24, 2022 by daveo

[lowrider]

If you are lazy you mount it and ride it. If your like Sunsurfer and myself you experiment till you like the feel. And then experiment some more. As a general rule short setup allows board to flex more than the longer setup (distance between axles) both setups allow the board to flex and perform more true to the boards design (feet and bindings do not create an artificial flat spot on the board). If you want the most suspension and best recreational ride the longest mounting points are what will provide that particular characteristic. Mounting the binding outside the pivot points can give you a diving board feel (you do not want that ! 

[SunSurfer]

54 minutes ago, lowrider said:

If you are lazy you mount it and ride it. If your like Sunsurfer and myself you experiment till you like the feel. And then experiment some more. As a general rule short setup allows board to flex more than the longer setup (distance between axles) both setups allow the board to flex and perform more true to the boards design (feet and bindings do not create an artificial flat spot on the board). If you want the most suspension and best recreational ride the longest mounting points are what will provide that particular characteristic. Mounting the binding outside the pivot points can give you a diving board feel (you do not want that ! 

With a hinge & sliding hinge plate fitted the board experiences the riders inputs only at the two axle points. The physics of plate axle position in relation to board flex mean that for a given rider mass the board will flex more when the axles are closer together, and less when the axles are farther apart. Consider the 2 extremes, all the riders mass concentrated at the middle of the board versus a plate the same length as the board itself with the axles at the tip and tail and the riders mass now effectively applied equally only to tip and tail. Think about what will cause the board to flex as a turn is carved in those 2 scenarios.

As for board torsion, the farther apart the axles are the greater the length of board in the mid-section that can now flex freely but have its tendency to twist reduced. The importance of the long interaxle distance in the AllFlex plate design is underappreciated.

[TLN]

I've asked Apex on how to mount plate long time ago. I was mostly asking about axle width and plate positioning for regular carving on 180cm board. 

I've also asked to measure distance from tail to plate, to have reference for front-back positioning. I was also using 4x4 mount at a time. UPM mount only gives you 2-3 options.

Here's full quote: 

 

Quote

Apex Info <info@apexsnowboard.com>

Sat, Jan 3, 2015, 8:51 PM

to me

Hello Victor. I'm not sure about the fit problem. It's a bit hard to visualise exactly. Maybe if you sent some photos, I could comment.

 

Almost all riders use the front hole on the back mount. If you use the back hole, the distance between the two axles increases and the board will be more difficult to turn.

 

On the front mount, no one uses the back hole. That's because your foot will roll over the axle and cause the front of the plate to dip down towards the board when you pressure a turn. The Austrians tend to use the middle hole on the front mount. Everyone else seems to use the front hole. It's just personal preference but again, as the distance between the axles grows, the harder the board is to turn.

 

Regarding your positioning question, I would try to keep your bindings in the same position as when your board is plateless. Then position your plate as close to board centre as possible. On 185cm snowboards, the distance from the back of the plate to tail of board should be 41cm. On shorter boards, you're going to reduce that distance obviously.

 

Give it a try and if you have any questions, let me know.

Quote

Nobody uses the third hole (shortest axle spacing). If you do, your front foot will roll over the axle and that's not good. So I wouldn't worry that it doesn't fit.

 

Sounds like you will have a good setup if you go slightly shorter than 41cm.

From what I remember, there are three holes in the front and two in the back. Answer above pretty much rules out one hole on the back (use front only) and one hole in the front (rear, so use front or middle one).

I was mounting both mounts symmetrically (i.e. 1/5 position on front and rear) on both end.

The procedure was the the following: 

1. Insert pins so they stick out to the side of plate.

2. Match rear ping with hole on the rear mount. 

3. Match front pin in the beginning of slide. It will move forward when you turn.

4. Move all that construction so mounts are symmetrical around board inserts. Figure out what mount holes to use, and what holes on 4x4 mounts to use.

5. Mount em. Don't tighten yet. 

6. Put plate normally, insert all four pins. 

7. Push on top of the plate to make sure it slides. 

8. Remove plate and pins and tighten everything. 

9 Attach plate and bindings on top.  Add spacers on the inside/outside if needed

I usually went through steps 6-8 to make sure everything is straight. May be it wasn't necessary, but it's better safe than sorry. 

[SunSurfer]

36 minutes ago, TLN said:

3. Match front pin in the beginning of slide. It will move forward when you turn.

The pins go through the plate so they do not move. Rather the straight line distance between the pieces attached to the board shortens as the board bends in the turn. The straight line is the chord of the arc the board makes. The slide moves.

If you understand how the plate works then correct assembly is relatively straightforward.

Edited January 24, 2022 by SunSurfer

[TLN]

4 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

The pins go through the plate so they do not move. Rather the straight line distance between the pieces attached to the board shortens as the board bends in the turn. The straight line is the chord of the arc the board makes. The slide moves.

If you understand how the plate works then correct assembly is relatively straightforward.

Pins will move/slide forward within front mount, so you have to  placefront mount as much forward as possible.

Yea, it's pretty much arc and chord.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Blast from the past!

Are the V2 aluminium mounting plates oriented with the axles facing out, towards the ends of the board?

This fits the plate OK but I don’t love the idea of those potential fault lines running across the board     Debating whether I should turn that front one around….
 

 

[SunSurfer]

2 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Debating whether I should turn that front one around….

Short opinion: NO!

Longer opinion: From my understanding of what sliding axle plate designs are designed to do, from designing and building my own sliding plates, and from my experience riding them, I would firmly say "NO!"

This type of plate is designed to allow the board to freely flex along its length, to prevent bending forces from being concentrated in any one spot during normal carving.

The farther the axles are apart the lower the effective rider mass that the board experiences. The board will flex less, it will seem stiffer, or as if it has a longer SCR, just @daveo reported above with his Kessler.

The farther the axles are apart the greater the length of the mid section of the board that has constraints on its ability to twist. This generally improves edge hold.

Remember, the current racer's favourite plate, the AllFlex has its hinges/axles at the outer ends of their plate.

While @lowrider is correct in saying that we experimented that was more than 10 years ago and a great deal is now known that was not known then, and at the time the Apex V2 was originally marketed and the original instructions for use produced.

If you would like to do the experiment and swap the mounting unit in reverse, make sure you have enough room for the sliding mount on the board to move at least 1cm towards the centre of the board as the board flexes. If you don't have sufficient slide room you will likely damage your board. But I cannot recommend you conduct the experiment.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

But tell me what you really think!   

Yeah, I’m asking because I have no instructions or pictures for how the mounts were intended to be installed—I’m flying blind in putting this together. 

The mechanism seems very straightforward but that was exactly my concern here—on order to turn a mount around but still have enough slider I’d have to place them at the widest points on the 4x4, which to me would have a weird affect on board flex. So I mounted them as shown only because it seemed like the obvious way. 

So I’m glad you agree there. I will say that the bolted-on metal straight line across the board makes me queasy, though…I get a vague uneasy flashback to TD1/OS1 don’t-stuff-that-nose concerns in the early 2000s….