jtdds Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 I would like to know what alot of you are riding in crud, bumps and powder-- not just the brand, but the characteristics of the board, riding angles, soft or hard boots. I used to ride hardboot/race board in everything but powder. The past two years I have spent more time in a variety of board and have found it frustrating to lock into the ideal all-mountain board. I have heard often from my soft boot mentors that a softer flex is better for an all around ride for crud bumps and powder-- I guess this is true as i like freestyle boards in the bumps. Enter confusion... last year I got to use a Palmer Channel (has a sheet of titanium) which is suppose to be a stiff, boardercross board. Slightly thinner with a carving radius side cut it carves very nice... but it also has tremendous dampening in the bumps and crud and never chatters on heelside speedcheck skids. Why does this boardercross specialty board seem to do it all??? The channel is not made anylonger and the max size was 164-- and it is just too thin for me (drag) So what do you ride and why? Is titanium used that much? Although I listen to all I am primarily interested to hear from riders that carve their wider boards with strait across angles (0-20, duck) and switch riders. Thank you for your insights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 My Coiler: Bruce started with the mold for the Coiler 169 AM, and extended the board until the nose came up to 5cm tall and the tail 3cm. The waist is 21cm, sidecut 13m. I ride it with a 55/50 stance. It's fun for moguls, halfpipe, tabletops, anything that will get me airborne, etc, and I spend a fair amount of time riding switch (180s over tabletops, and any time it's not steep/fast enough for hard nose-first carving). Just no rails, those scare me. This year I got the same thing with a 17cm waist and 11.5 sidecut, but haven't ridden it yet (and probably won't until next year). I've never wished for a wider board, but I've often wished for narrower. This might be too narrow, but I like to experiment. I don't know if that's subjective or objective, but personally I like a stiffer board, for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Stock Coiler AM 172, 21.5 cm waist, 45 front, 40 rear with Raichle 224s and Titanflex stepins. Had it in huge bumps in the double diamond stuff on Goat's Eye at Sunshine (Wildside) and it worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdds Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Nate, Your ride at 55 degrees... and you ride a fair amount switch-- at those angles?? I have ridden my alpine set up backward at low speeds and short distance... I found seeing to be a challenge, how do you do it? Ever carve without angles on a wideer board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnovak Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 For bumps, trees, and all around riding, I'm using Flow Pro C FR, Burton Driver X's, and F2 Eliminator BX board. Angles generally 30F/15R, but have also used it at 20F/10R. Compared to real freestyle set-up, it sucks at riding switch. Not great in small, tight bumps, but does well on the big ones and in tight spaces where being able to put down lots of edge pressure helps. Thinking of throwing on the hardboots on the board and see how that goes, but have to wait till next winter. boo-hoo-hoo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_watkins Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Coiler AM 169, 20cm waist (9.9m sidecut). It's fairly soft compared to other boards I've ridden, particularly in the waist. I handles chopped up runs great, and I had a good time with it in the trees with a couple inches of fresh a few weeks ago. Today was the first time I took it into deep fresh. Understanding that my skill with hardboots is still improving, I did find float to be a bit of an issue today. If I carried speed I was fine, but no picking my way slowly through the trees. I don't really mind though, usually on a day like today I'd rather be on a dedicated powder ride. Still, with a bit more mileage on it in those conditions I think I'll be able to manage it if need be. But for everything else so far, I love it. I think dampness is a key feature for a AM hardboot board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 older burton FP 173, 178 and 185s make great all mountain beaters due to the the easy going flex and the 20 cm waist on the 173 and 178 and 19.5 the 185 cant go wrong with the price on them with a decent tune they ride very well on hardpack too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 I just realized you were talking about softboot setups too the donek wide works well the wider sidcut is what seems to help the most at speed to keep the board from being chatter prone SFleck is on a Madd BX and says its amazing, it might be right up your alley myself I like my hardboots but in the pow softies and and wide ride like a burton canyon or donek sasquatch does it for me like no alpine board I have been on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Rather than just rotating my head around, I find that it helps to tuck my head down, sorta like I was going to look under my armpit. That sounds more awkward than it really is. :) I think that helps more with posture than with vision per se, but it definitely helped me overall when I got into that habit. I rode 45/30 and 45/40 for a long time on wider boards and the funny thing is, riding switch is easier for me at 55/50. (Someone else here noticed the same thing too.) I haven't ridden any angles lower than 45/30 in about ten years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Webster Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 I started out in soft boots/freeride board. After I got into carving, I started using hard boots on both types of boards. But ultimately, I found that they were to heavy and too unforgiving, with little feel. When I free ride now, I ride a very soft board with strap bindings and soft boots. I've demoed numerous free ride boards and it seems to me that every year they tend to get stiffer. I think the manufacturers aim to "smooth" out the riding by creating boards that can plow through anything. I prefer the opposite: I want a board that has torsional stiffness so it holds an edge, but is very, very soft otherwise. I can adjust my body to the terrain rather than just plowing through it... Current free ride set up: Salomon 300 151 Salomon SP 4 set to 21 the front; about 9 in the back Salomon Malamut Boots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Chris I'm looking for the same type of board for riding bumps and trees. I just bought the Salomon F24 boots and the Spx7 bindings. Do you or anyone else have any further suggestions with regards to boards? I am totally devoid of knowledge when it comes to the softy settup. Vinn Q at Out of Bounds said I should look for a shorter softer board. It's been frustrating searching for one due to the sheer volume of boards out there. Suggestions new or used would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by Miguel Chris I'm looking for the same type of board for riding bumps and trees. I just bought the Salomon F24 boots and the Spx7 bindings. Do you or anyone else have any further suggestions with regards to boards? I am totally devoid of knowledge when it comes to the softy settup. Vinn Q at Out of Bounds said I should look for a shorter softer board. It's been frustrating searching for one due to the sheer volume of boards out there. Suggestions new or used would be greatly appreciated. I just demo'd the Donek Phoenix and I think it fits the bill... I own the Donek Incline and that stiff thing is a workout for me in the bumps and trees... but the Phoenix is a whole different experience. Easy to handle in the trees and bumps and great in the park... but still can lay down a nice crisp carve (for a freestyle/freeride board). Other boards I have ridden and their bump/tree performance) Salomon 450 (medium stiff, good) Salomon Definition (very stiff, ugly and unwieldy) Donek Incline (stiff, intense and tiring) Burton Fish (soft, easy and nimble). Neversummer Evo (medium soft, pretty good but feels a little mushy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Lonerider Funny you should mention the Phoenix. After doing way too much internet surfing I decided to check the company I know best (Donek) and low and behold what should catch my eye but the Phoenix. It sounded interesting but nothing takes the place of a first hand report. I too have an Incline which I like, but I also find it to be too stiff for bumps..tees etc. Not that it can't be done but I believe threre's a better tool for the job. I prefer to ride the Incline with plates. Can regular bindings be used with Burton boards or do they still have that ridiculous three hole pattern. I wouldn't mind picking up something used if possible. Thanks for the suggestions. Miguel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by Miguel Lonerider Funny you should mention the Phoenix. After doing way too much internet surfing I decided to check the company I know best (Donek) and low and behold what should catch my eye but the Phoenix. It sounded interesting but nothing takes the place of a first hand report. I too have an Incline which I like, but I also find it to be too stiff for bumps..tees etc. Not that it can't be done but I believe threre's a better tool for the job. I prefer to ride the Incline with plates. Can regular bindings be used with Burton boards or do they still have that ridiculous three hole pattern. I wouldn't mind picking up something used if possible. Thanks for the suggestions. Miguel If you are riding the Incline with plates I would think that they added leverage would make the board much easier to handle in the trees (because as an alpine board, it is rather short and soft). Maybe I should try that... although I'm not so enamoured to ride hardboots on anything and everything as some people are. Either way I like the Phoenix enough that I'm likely going to replace my Incline with it eventually. Yes, Burton still had the stupid 3-hole, I caught a break and got my board with bindings... for you I would suggest something like the Original Sin 4807 which is sold on Ebay cheaply in the $150-170 range. A lot of people get ride (mostly with plates) and like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 If the days starts out as a powder day and turns into crud and bumps, then I'm on the O-Sin 4807 with hard boots set at 25F/20B. The soft flex of the nose on the O-Sin makes it easier to ride bumps and crud. Since the stance is set back, making the tail shorter, it makes it easier to do jump turns in the bumps. If the day starts off with hardpack for carving and then going off-piste later (but no powder), then I just stay on my alpine deck. If I'll be riding a lot of bumps then I'll ride my slalom deck or switch to the O-Sin (depending on how much groomed riding is going on). The board that truly excels in everything hasn't been made yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Am I missing something here? Isn't the 4807 strictly a powder board? He he...I live on the ice coast! Mogels here are usually of the translucent variety...even the tree runs can often be considered "hardpack." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdds Posted April 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Wow! what a post. Reread the replies and the variety is just nutty. We've got guys that define switch riding as 50 plus angles and looking upside down past their armpit. (I MUST party with these vertigo challenged carvers...) Two observations that need more discussion: 1. When I raised the all-mountain category I assumed most of you had free ride setups not alpine for the all-mountain. I acutally feel more at home on an alpine set up in crud and bumps but NEVER on light powder. I am curious what some of you see as advantages of alpine boards in the virgin fluff. 2. All of the respondants ride with angles-- even on their 'wide' boards. All my soft-boot instructing friends ride no angles or even negative on the backfoot-- duck. Their PSIA courses have taught them that squaring up the feet hips and shoulders to the edge provides more power transfer. I have always ridden my Alpine set ups as low as I can without bail hits (pretty high for 29 mondo). Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by jtdds Two observations that need more discussion: 1. When I raised the all-mountain category I assumed most of you had free ride setups not alpine for the all-mountain. I acutally feel more at home on an alpine set up in crud and bumps but NEVER on light powder. I am curious what some of you see as advantages of alpine boards in the virgin fluff. Nope, I think the large majority of people here have an all-mountain alpine board in addition to their bevy of SL, GS, FC, and BG (Big Gun) boards as they don't feel comfortable with softboots (there is definitely something to be said for one set of boots for all conditions). Those of us that have true freeride setups (and not freerides pretending to be alpine setups... like BX boards with soft hardboots) are much less than what you would expect. I think many people here like the power and response you get out of a hardboot setup... even if you are riding fresh powder that is smooth and surfy... I still like my softboot setup as I think I get plenty of power and response just by using my legs instead of being incased in plastic like technicolor Darth Vader (I'm joking)... but again I'm only a minority opinion. If I were to get a board like the Osin 4807 I would likely try it with hardboots as well. Originally posted by jtdds 2. All of the respondants ride with angles-- even on their 'wide' boards. All my soft-boot instructing friends ride no angles or even negative on the backfoot-- duck. Their PSIA courses have taught them that squaring up the feet hips and shoulders to the edge provides more power transfer. I have always ridden my Alpine set ups as low as I can without bail hits (pretty high for 29 mondo). Am I missing something? From what I've read, the main reason people are riding 58+ angles are because their feet at big and they need to have higher angles to avoid booting out just like you. I think squaring the feet/hips/shoulder to each OTHER gives you more power transfer... but it doesn't necessary give you the most... with soft boots, more squared to the board lets you use moy ankle flexion/extension power... using higher angles lets you use the laterally stiffness of the boot to drive the power of your hips into the board... I tihnk 45-55 is the sweet spot where you can maximally use both types of "power" but I'm a relatively beginner (2 years) compared to many people here, so what do I know. I didn't mention it before, but I ride my freestyle/freeride board with 15/0, 18/3 or 15/-3 degrees normally. If I know I'm not going to be hitting the park/pipe or even any natural kickers, I'll move up to like 22/16 (that's what I ride on my Burton Fish powder board). I ride my alpine board in the 60/55 - 55/50 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Webster Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 I don't have a list of boards to suggest. In my experience, Salomon does great R&D. I did try the Link this year and liked it, but I'm still riding my old 300. There are a ton of great board manufacturers out there. Check out as many demo days as you can. Ironically, though I am not a huge Burton fan (and not a Burton hater, either) I am getting a Burton Fish. I've heard great things about the board and I think it will work well for me on powder days in the trees. We'll see... - CW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by Miguel Am I missing something here? Isn't the 4807 strictly a powder board? Nope, the 4807 is NOT powder only. The 4807 is a versatile all mountain board that excels in powder. It's the best board I've ridden in the bumps and it handles the groomed like a wide freeride board. It doesn't carve as well as a Donek Incline (which is narrower), but it carves better than my 153 cm freestyle board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by gdboytyler Nope, the 4807 is NOT powder only. The 4807 is a versatile all mountain board that excels in powder. It's the best board I've ridden in the bumps and it handles the groomed like a wide freeride board. It doesn't carve as well as a Donek Incline (which is narrower), but it carves better than my 153 cm freestyle board. Has anyone taken the 4807 on icy hardpack? Pretty much everyone I've seen who has the 4807 seems to live in the West or NW. I haven't seen many comments (Mike T mentioned it brief) about what happens when you hit real ice patches (not just frozen hardpack). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 jtdds, I ride a 200cm Rad-Air Tanker with Catek freerides and Apx-9 boots with angles at 36 and 15 with lots of cant and lift on both feet. The tankers are awesome freeride boards with a medium to stiff flex (for a freeride board but not compared with a race board) . The 200 has an 11m sidecut and rides well with both plates and softboots (see other posts here on tankers and steepwater/winterstick tom burt to check out other riders who use them). Although the 2m Tanker is a bit long for tree riding, it can be done and for those that don't want the lentgth for trees and bumps the 167w, 172, 177w, or 182 models will fit into that category nicely without losing the fun for crud, high speed charging and powder riding. If you were to check out the Tankers, and with your larger feet the Oversize tankers would probably suit you and are available in 167w, 177w, or 187w. Additionally you may want to check out getting a custom Donek, Coiler, or Prior as they could make the board just the way you want it. So there is my 2-cents...hope you find what you are looking for. speed is your friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by lonerider Has anyone taken the 4807 on icy hardpack? I've only taken out my 4807 on powder days, mashed potatoes/slush and hero snow. On the hero snow, I switched to the GS board after two runs -- then went back to the 4807 when my brother wanted to go off-piste. For icy hardpack, the short slalom board is the call. Of course, out west, that doesn't happen very often:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raphael Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 My favourite all moutain board is a swallowtail: Undertaker 185. Works in any dificult conditions much easier than my alpine board, even better than the freeride boards that i tried, and carves hard on piste too. What else do i need ? ;) Well... a Swoard... but first i'll need money :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jeremiah Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 I hope to have a ride report of my 4807 in Vermont spring conditions by Monday. If it doesn't pour down rain I plan to take my new OSin out in the slop and see what it can do. It may even be icy Sunday morning, which will allow me to do some edgehold tests. I should have taken it out last Sunday, but I was more concerned with verifying that 3* plates on the front was what was causing my leg pain. Jeremiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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