Geezercarver Needs To Switch To Soft Setup

[eastcoasticerider]

HI GANG,heres a question for you to mull over.I have been snowboarding approx. 10 years now.I started with a 3strap Burton Torque binding and an Amp6 oldschool board with those old airwalk linertype boots.(extreme)..then I discovered the ease of alpine setups...Alps then factory primes and even a custom Prior with Burton Reactors and raceplates.......anyhow i want to give lessons at our local hill next season but they require a softy setup.I gravitated to carving because it just made sense.more control on eastcoast ice and easy in and out of bindings.one flip of the bail and im out or in....(why are softbooters so stoopid?) anyhow I have been checking out bindings and boards and i need advice......i dont liek how wobbly stepins are and straps are too much hassle so i was eyeballing that flow rear entry system..it really looks cool and easy to get in and out. Ive seen quite a few middle agers like me using them. also a board? I used to liek that solomon fr carving series but they dont make thast one any more..anybody ahve some good advise before i waste a ton of cash?/ also boots? solomon? whats a good boot for heavy calves that will slip into the solomon bindings?...thanks....:D :confused:

[Mike T]

Originally posted by Jim Callen

They require softboots???!?! That is the singlemost idiotic thing I think I've ever heard. For what reasons do they require softboots? I would have some serious beef with the school if I were you.

I disagree, I think it's in the school's best interests to make sure all of their instructors have a soft set-up and can teach in it. Back in the day when I had no interest whatsoever in hard boots, I took a lesson from a fellow in hard boots. It was a waste of time and money. Watching him just confused me. and given that 99+% of the people that show up for a lesson will be in soft boots, it makes sense to hav your instructors in soft boots as well.

Now, if someone wants a hard boot lesson- by all means teach them in hard boots!

As much as we might want to spread the love for hard boots, it's not what your average customer wants when they show up for a lesson. Looking back at that ill-fated lesson at Squaw in 1999, what that instructor was tecahing us makes a lot more sense now, but at the time I was pissed that I had shelled out for a lesson and didn't learn anything. (Squaw's ski school didn't make me happy either, I asked for another lesson for free and they didn't give it to me.)

[Scotty Pumpkins]

I still ride soft boots, although i dont consider myself to be stupid by any stretch of the imagination. I can carve pretty well in them actually, and im still working on my transition to hard boots. IN any event, im riding a Salomon frs, which i absolutely love. its a pretty stiff board, not sure you'd want that for teaching. I also have a salomon fr 400, which i think would be a little better/more comfortable in a slower teaching type situation. My boots are burton Driver's which are seriously stiff for soft boots, very supportive. Search ebay, you never know. I bought my FRS for about 120 bucks shipped, which was a steal. The board was hardly ridden. I wish they still made those, that whole series rocked.

[D-Sub]

the FLOW bindings are by far the most convenient Ive ridden. I had problems with the highback diggin into my calf horribly due to the shape of the hb? not sure...and the ones I was riding were easily 3 years+ old.

not sure why the "softbooters are stupid" thing but I guess its just part of the hardbooting elitist attitude. Odd bein in both worlds..when I talk about ridin hard with jibbers I get ****, and when I talk about ridin softies with some carvers I get ****. stuck in the middle:)

[Jack M]

Hmm, I successfully taught hundreds of never-evers in my hardboots when I was an instructor. oh well. All I know about softboots is that my next pair of softboot bindings will be Catek Freerides.

And Jim didn't say that softbooters are stupid, he said the policy is stupid. Which it is.

[D-Sub]

first post, not jim

"why are softbooters so stupid?"

could easily have been referring to the soft boots only policy though, but to deny that theres an air of superiority would be ludicrous.

rippers are rippers

[mirror70]

Jim hit it right on the head: the movements are identical.

The fact that your local hill doesn't allow you to teach in hardboots shows just how little they know about snowboarding. I teach at Sugarloaf, and unless it's a powder day I'm on hardboots. I have [very successfully] taught hundreds of people ranging from never-evers to guys who are comfortable ripping down double-blacks. No one has ever brought up the "issue" of hardboots in a negative way. Sometimes a student will ask about the setup, but the explanation of "it's for turning hard" is always enough.

At the start of the season, my boss did push for me to get a soft setup. He said that when we get powder days, I'm going to wish I had one. Those are the only days I haven't been on hardboots all season.

[BlueB]

Like Scotty, I also ride Burton Drivers when on soft setup. Really stiff.

As the board goes, some BX board will probably look similar enough to "normal" setup and will carve much better. Add 3 strap bindings if you can find them (I have no experience with Flow, but they look good).

Boris

P.S. Regarding the "stupid" comment, to me it is nothing personal, and kudos to those enlightened individuals who discovered the EDGES of their boards. Stupid is not realizing the potential of the board (every board can carve) and just skidding around, just as well as the disappearance of alpine in despite of comfort and performance it offers. With 70% of the crowd just cruising the mountains, alpine would be logical choice.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

Hmm, I've successfully taught hundreds of never-evers in my hardboots when I was an instructor. oh well. All I know about softboots is that my next pair of softboot bindings will be Catek Freerides.

And Jim didn't say that softbooters are stupid, he said the policy is stupid. Which it is.

I still think the policy makes sense, from the resort ski school's point of view. It's a matter of catering to the customers' expectations. Even as a noob back in the late 90's, I knew or at least thought I knew that I wanted an instructor using soft boots, just like me. Students do notice that 99% of the snowboarders on the hill have soft gear and less forward stances, and they might start scratching their heads if their instructor is on plates.

Just playing devil's advocate here! My bad experience was with the instructor and not his equipment... or should I say, the instructor and has lack of ability to teach me on hardboot equipment while I was on softboot equipment. I'm pretty sure he was stoned out of hsi mind at the time. I have no doubt that it can work. But do I expect a ski school to understand that or use it to their advantage? Based on how the ski schools at my local mountains are run, nah.

I love my Catek FRs by the way - they have rekindled my interest in soft boots some.

[mirror70]

Oh, and about the Flow bindings: skip them. They need to be adjusted just right to get the proper fit, they aren't very stiff, and the highbacks aren't very good. Old fashioned strap bindings work just fine.

I'm partial to the Burton Mission bindings. They have a nice deep heel pocket which really helps to reduce any slop that there may be in the boot. The highbacks also have a slight curve to them, so there is a nice progressive engagement, and it also makes heelside chatter less painful. Another nice touch are the caps on the toe straps; they allow you to make the straps much tighter without being uncomfortable.

As for a board, I really like the Burton Raven and Atomic Alibi. Both are fairly stiff and great to carve on.

[eastcoasticerider]

WHAT I MEANT WAS THE SHAPE OF THE BOARDS NOWADAYS ARE DEFINITELY A HINDRANCE TO THE LEARNING CURVE. Its so hard to learn on one of those wide nose/tail waist boards. If i had to learn on one years ago i dont think i would have stuck with it. I think old scholol boards are easier to learn on.just because of the shape....whoa. i really set off a firestorm there....didnt mean to......;)

[D-Sub]

stupid hardbooter ;)

cant say I agree...newer boards ride far better in most cases

I wonder what my K2 HC176 would feel like now...or my Morrow Drive? Revert56? Heck...Gnu Kinetic?

[eastcoasticerider]

HEY:does anybody know where i can get a Burton Raven in 155 length?......should i try to nail one now at end of season prices or wait till next year?

[mirror70]

That's going to be a hard to find board right now. The shops around here have all sold out of it, and Burton is sending '05-06 boards as warranty replacements.

[eastcoasticerider]

i gotta try..maybe Ill call ValSurf they are the largest Burton dealer west of the MIss....any other ideas?......

[eastcoasticerider]

Hey how about Solomon Malamutes? boots..are they as good as Burton ? ......:D

[kjl]

My hardboot instructor at Squaw told me he likes teaching never-evers in hardboots because he spends most of the lesson with one foot in and one foot out anyways, and it's much easier to control the board and make turns in hard boots with only one foot in. ... Itmakes sense to me; when I go back to soft boots on powder days every lift dismount is an adventure :)

[philw]

:)

I think they should force all instructors and beginners to use soft gear. Tell them that hard stuff is evil and that it will kill them. That's what we need: a bit of decent marketing.

[eastcoasticerider]

SOMETHING TELLS ME THIS IS SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL!!!!YIKES.......anyhow i just nailed a K2 Instinct 156 today and am going to try it out tonight with a 3strap binding.......wish me luck.I am still leaning towards flow biondings for instructing because they sound convenient and i hear the high end ones are stiff......

[lonerider]

Originally posted by eastcoasticerider

SOMETHING TELLS ME THIS IS SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL!!!!YIKES.......anyhow i just nailed a K2 Instinct 156 today and am going to try it out tonight with a 3strap binding.......wish me luck.I am still leaning towards flow biondings for instructing because they sound convenient and i hear the high end ones are stiff......

Hi eastcoasticerider, this thread went nuclear before I even got near it and I've say awayed until it cooled off a bit.

Back to the original subject of freeride, binding and board advice. While personally I still remember the Flows as flimsy from their early days in the mid-90s, I'm told that the latest high-end models (X-FR, C-FR, TeamOne) are stiff with interweaved carbon fiber. Catek Freerides are becoming the new fad here, but after riding them... I ended up preferring Nidecker 800s myself - true they are not as quicker as Flows, but they have an excellent combination of responsiveness and dampness (the have a dampening base layer). For some more information, check out the bindings forum on Freecarve.com, as there are some more even-handed opinions about FLOWS and strap bindings.

For boards, I would like to suggest a Donek Wide or a Donek Phoenix myself. I like Salomon boards too (the Definition/Fastback are close to the old Frs, but I haven't ridden a Salomon in 2 years so I'm not sure what the latest models are like).

[alpinegirl]

your students will trash your board within the first week of its life (other instructors probably will help as well), so it might as well not be a precious alpine deck.

personally i prefer teaching in my hardboots. this includes the typical fare of freestyle stuff that comes up in lessons. and though it isn't a policy, the area was hesitant to hire me due to my gear. it isn't as though i was brand new to instructing, but yeah, silly misconceptions. granted i wanted to beat up all the new instructors this season who kept making stupid, questioning statements like, you can't jump on that or ride switch.... truly, ignorance sucks. and i am on the verge of a tangent.

after passing my level 1 (i know it's meaningless) with an examiner who dug my riding (which surprised me, especially since i was with a group of jibbers) last season, my boss types have stopped harassing me about my gear. they know my freestyle riding is just as bad in softboots as it is in hardboots. actually, it's better in hardboots....

so yeah, refer back to statement 1

[lonerider]

Originally posted by alpinegirl

after passing my level 1 (i know it's meaningless) with an examiner who dug my riding (which surprised me, especially since i was with a group of jibbers) last season, my boss types have stopped harassing me about my gear. they know my freestyle riding is just as bad in softboots as it is in hardboots. actually, it's better in hardboots

Yea, I spoke with Sean Cassidy and two of the other hardboot instructors at Snowperformance and all of them had stories about being failed in their Level III certifications (and CASI-Level4?) despite outriding many of the other riders (even in switch and in the park) because the tester had issues with hardbooters, tried to sabotage them by making them do switch mogul runs and such... and then just failing them anyways. I'm not saying that's right in any way - if you can ride switch and do spins in a hardboots that's cool - but the reality is that I'm told it is "easier" to get your certifications in softboots and a freeride board - unless you want to be a potential hardboot martyr.

[eastcoasticerider]

Let me get this straight....You gguys are riding freeride boards (directional twintips) in a hardboot setup? I know my switcth riding will be rough but i could probably get it. I'm really down today.I went out and bought a 156 really stiff K2 Instinct that ii couldnt even do a toeside carve on in softboots and bindings.......wow how can anybody even ride those barges.......it does a cool heelside carev though....i dread having to handle it on ice..........

[lonerider]

Originally posted by eastcoasticerider

Let me get this straight....You gguys are riding freeride boards (directional twintips) in a hardboot setup? I know my switcth riding will be rough but i could probably get it. I'm really down today.I went out and bought a 156 really stiff K2 Instinct that ii couldnt even do a toeside carve on in softboots and bindings.......wow how can anybody even ride those barges.......it does a cool heelside carev though....i dread having to handle it on ice..........

Umm... are you refering to me? No, I don't. I ride my freeride board with a medium stiffness softboot (ThirtyTwo Forecast). Personally I still like riding softboots a majority of the time (like 65/35). But there are definitely a few of people who ride freeride boards in hardboots, I keep mentioning him so I hope he doesn't mind, but Neil G rides hardboots on a Rad-Air Tanker and I think someone else does it on a Steepwater. NateW does park riding an all-mtn board (Prior 4WD) and a few people are riding BX boards like the F2 Speedcross (rounded tail, but not true twin tip).

I'm surprised that you have found a board that is so stiff (to the point that you have difficult doing a toeside)... I mean I've checked the review of it and everyones says it stiff, but I have a hard time believe it is stiffer than a Donek Incline or even significantly stiffer than a Salomon Frs at the same length. My thought that you perhaps need better bindings to allow to your flex the board more... while I like the Catek Freerides for power, there large footprint tends to actually "stiffen" the board even more... which I didn't like. So high-end FLOWS, Salomons, or Nidecker bindings are still my suggestion. Actually most important is your boots... a stiff boot will give you the power you need... a sfot boot will just flex and then it won't matter hold responsive your bindings are. Just my opinion.

[alpinegirl]

i ride a race board with hardboots to teach in. or i ride an alp....

softies on freestyle and freeride boards, due to stance angles and my desire to have my toes and heels near their appropriate edges. i have taught on these. but with a vast majority of lessons (as in most lessons are new riders), it doesn't matter. with lower level riding, there is more of a focus on the feet and board performance (yes, board performance is always a point, but i find that when starting out all you can really focus on is what the board is supposed to do, like tip, as opposed to the many ways in which a person can put a board on edge). alignment references correspond to binding angles, not the nose and tail of the board.

there are movements that work regardless of the gear that you are on. well, i don't know about skiis. but yeah, if the focus of initiating a turn is the knee, and all you want to do is move the front knee over the front foot's toes, then the angle at which that happens is only relative to the individual's setup. so yeah, what does it really matter what you teach on?

and yeah, i feel for you about switching to a soft setup having had not ridden one in a while. how did you set yourself up on it? how do you normally carve a toeside turn?

lonerider. i figure that AASI is happy to take anyone's money. i do have to consider how far i want to go in the organization. at this point in time i would be testing for my level II in hardboots. frankly they like to fail people who haven't played the game right. i have witnessed amazing instructors who were great riders fail exams without explanation, on softies, while others who are not really all that "good" pass. i was fortunate, i had tom vickery so i didn't have to take any heat about my gear. i honestly would like to have him for my next exam. there are still a few higher ups (as in clinicians and examiners) in AASI who respect plates and are able to look beyond the gear.

heck, when i fail it had better be because my best riding isn't good enough. right now my best riding occurs in hardboots, so why would i compromise that just to be riding "the right gear?"