S5 hardboot - Korean

[slapos]

Right, I had a chance to test out the S5 hardboot. I am pleasantly surprised how they ride.

In comparison to 951, the main differences are :

- heel sits much lower due to different heel placement (more deeluxe like) see below

- heel above causes increased sole length Vs same size upz or 951. For 951 and upz I used M size F2s, for S5 I would have to use L size. For me a major drawback. This is true for shell C in 951 and 302 shell in S5. Liner 285 mp

- spring system Vs 951 is little less user friendly. Requires a bit of creativity to get it adjusted. Takes more time to adjust on slope. Probably impossible without taking the boot off. I had to use a screwdriver to lift the shaft and wrench to get the two screws moving.
- I found the standard spring too short and had to exchange to something different - standard lenght of the spring picture on the left vs donor spring on the right (mind you I cranked it down quite heavily which might have influenced the reaction time of the boot to lighting fast, but it also makes you think that if you have cranked it up so much, why do you need a spring at all?) 

 

- They are super reactive and comfortable. If 951 shell is too narrow for you S5 might be your choice. The shell is wider in the foot area

 

As a standard they come with 3 tongues and 5 different springs.

- the buckles look a little cheap, but in general they work fine. Also the design with the cable/clasp over tongue does not affect the flexing motion of the boot.

This is a good alternative if you dont have all the money in the world to spend on 951, but still want to get the northwave shell shape with a few tweaks.

if you have any further questions I am happy to answer.

regards

L

 

 

[pow4ever]

This is great!  Thank you for taking the time to write it out.

The Spring system on S5 seems to went through a few iteration. 
There are some pic floating around showing it comes with stock Deeluxe type of mechanism.  The close up you provided are great and show problem area.  
Seems like a better mouse trap(spring) can be made for those with the how-to?
I wonder since some of the part(spring/buckle)/design are from Deeluxe; wonder if some of the parts can be "ported" over; BTS/DGSS and etc. *

In term of fitment:
The foot area is wider than 951.  How does the heel area compare to UPZ/951?  same great heel hold snugness?

"They are roomier than 951. Heel hold the same. Heel sits much lower than in 951."  <-- edited.  Your already answered this in your for sale thread.

in term of plastic stiffness:
How does it compare to 951/UPZ/Deeluxe?

My biggest concern is fitment not so much price: 
I think these boots might fit my feet better as I am in between size.  
Because of this statement:

I think this is the reason why you have to go up a size for binding?

"The Northwave copy boots we produce are made from low shells (272,282, 292,302) in 10mm increments to increase the fit.  For example, a 255 mm, 260 mm mermaid uses a 282 mm shell.  The 265mm, 270mm mermaid uses a 292mm shell.  So the length of the shell is 5mm ~ 15mm smaller than the boots of other companies, and the fit feeling is excellent like custom shoes."

Where can you buy these boots?  I need 292mm shell otherwise I would have bought your in a heart beat.
http://www.s5.co.kr/?

Reference:
This show spring system on the development boots:
https://m.blog.naver.com/kimcarving/221174880720

https://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13209

google translation:
http://www.s5.co.kr/shop/item.php?it_id=1571750524

"Foreground bundles are compatible with various things. Spring Bundles, Deluxe Bundles, Indie Spring Bundles, all regular angle bundles available for Deluxe Boots." *

[slapos]

For 951 i use C shell for 285 mm foot with zipfit liner.

Normally I would have to go to D shell to get the right size.

When I do barefoot shell test with my C shells I have a little less then one finger left, which is superb fit.

In S5 I have to take 302 shell which requires an L size binding due to sole size and heel placement.

Most likely I have managed to fit myself into smaller shell in 951 then I should. Maybe I could go into smaller shell in S5 but that would require another purchase and before I sell current 302 shell I am not purchasing anything else

Plastic feels a touch softer then 951 standard shell, but bear in mind that flex control comes mainly from the spring.

I bought these boots via Facebook link here :

https://www.facebook.com/miunole

this is the guy who produces them.

most likely dgss or BTS could support this shell given the fact that deeluxe springs fit.

[pow4ever]

Thank you!!

Are there 2 version of S5 boots as well?
Any details on what are the difference? 

Think i might have to sign up for FB after all these time lol...

[Lurch]

@slapos  the lower spring attach lug looks a little flimsy in the pictures - is it beefier than it appears ? 

[slapos]

@Lurch which bit exactly do you mean ?

Wanna mark on the pix ? I can take some more photos.

[Lurch]

Sorry @slapos I should have been clearer. I was asking about the shell lug where the lower end of the spring attaches. 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Lurch

[slapos]

hi Lurch,

no worries - my english is not always where I would like it to be.

i think its sturdy enough - I guess you would have to touch and feel.

unfortunately I spend so little time in the mountains these times (4 hours top per week, if the winter is good) I dont have much time experiment. 

These boots seem compatible with all spring kits that have been made for deeluxe. I think they could be really good for Extreme carving as they have a huge range of motion, which is not limited by buckling system or plastic interference.

All in all this boot proved to be much better then I expected.

 

[Lurch]

Thanks @slapos. Your reports are always well written and informative. And your english is 100 times better than my Polish :) Na zadrowie!

[charliechocolate]

@slapos how much do they weigh? Also, how much do the 951s weigh? I'm kind of sick of how heavy my UPZs are.

[Aracan]

@charliechocolate Do you have the stock liners in your UPZs? After mine had worn out I replaced them with Palau TF, and now my wife is jealous because my UPZs are much lighter than hers with the stock liners. Those are very heavy.

[slapos]

@charliechocolate

first of all - what are you doin under my desk?

I will weigh them both when I fix my scale and post it here.

regards

Lukasz

[charliechocolate]

@Aracan, yes I'm using stock liners. I just stuck a pair of zipfit world cup liners in them and I might have made them heavier  

[Aracan]

FWIW, my daughter rides RC10 with Deeluxe liners. My wife has RC8 with stock liners (same shell size). The ones with the stock liners weigh a hair under 6 lbs per piece. The ones with the Deeluxe liners weigh slightly over 4.6 lbs. Not sure how the different plastics contribute, though.

[Jack M]

On 1/24/2020 at 4:59 AM, slapos said:

This is a good alternative if you dont have all the money in the world to spend on 951

About that... For me the .951 is perfect right out of the box.  With Deeluxe you basically have to purchase an aftermarket spring system because the stock forward lean adjuster locks out the ankle joint.  Many people also add Booster straps and additional liner padding.  With UPZ I had to buy aftermarket liners and stiffer tongues.  The stock liners were too soft and squirmed around inside the shell for me, and the stock tongues were too soft for me.  Those issues bring the cost of those boots much closer to the .951.  Over the lifespan of the boots, which I anticipate will be several seasons (10?) the difference is insignificant.

How are the stock liners that come with the S5?  I assume not great since you went with Zipfit?

S5 calling their boots a copy of the Northwave seems a bit of a stretch.  The .951 is an actual copy.  By the looks of them and the pictures here, the S5 seems to be a hybrid of .950 and Deeluxe T700.

 

 

[slapos]

hi Jack,

I have bought shells only as I had zipfit. 

Didnt want the liners from S5

Same for 951 actually. I bought first pair of 951 when they had the Roxa liner in them - that didnt workout for me at all and I used UPZ foam liners in 951 for spell. Then I bought zipfit and managed to buy 951 world cup shells only.

The new liners i have heard work super good though so you are probably right about 951 being great right out of the box.

About S5 being a northwave copy - completely agree. the looks and design looks like northwave/951 however the heel placement and spring lug is much more deeluxe like.

I was pleasantly suprised how they did ride though. if you have chance give them a try

[pow4ever]

Another "feature" that I was really consider about is half size shell.
It's great for the in-between size feet.

"The Northwave copy boots we produce are made from low shells (272,282, 292,302) in 10mm increments to increase the fit.  For example, a 255 mm, 260 mm mermaid uses a 282 mm shell.  The 265mm, 270mm mermaid uses a 292mm shell.  So the length of the shell is 5mm ~ 15mm smaller than the boots of other companies, and the fit feeling is excellent like custom shoes."

For those already with liner/spring system and with size in between feet and intec is must have.  S5 seems like a great alternative.  
I wasn't able to get in contact with anyone from S5 so i went with MS .951 and so far so good.

[lonbordin]

So I bought the S5 boots from @slapos (great seller A+).

My feet are 292mm long and 110 wide (unweighted).  I have a sizeable arch, tall feet, and high ankles.  They make perfect footprints in the sand or when wet on the floor so I got that going for me.  I knew the 951s would take significant boot work and I couldn't resist the deal on the S5s.

I currently use modified UPZ shells 8.5/9/9.5 (291/312).  I've worn DeeLuxe track 700s and 425 Pros in the past.  I'm a really large person.

The inner last length of the S5s is 2mm shorter than my UPZs.  BUT the toe area is much less of an arrowhead and much rounder (perhaps even square in comparison).  Also it doesn't have the slanted downwards areas of the top of the UPZ toes (which make no damn sense at all).

I fit in the (285) 302 BSL S5 boots with no bootfitting.  I'll let that sink in... a 28.5 shell that fits a 110 wide foot with a low volume liner. Heel hold is nice. It's a finger or less of shell fit same as my UPZs.

There's a LOT of features of these that are borrowed from DeeLuxe.  How the interchangeable tongue fits, the whole rear spring mount, including the spine is an exact copy. BTS or Drupi's setup will definitely fit.

That said they also are very different.  They have a boot board. Fully removable and grindable. The boot board angle is 6 to 7 degrees depending on where you measure which is much more ski boot like than "the usual suspects".  The shell stands much higher than UPZ or DeeLuxe and the ankle hinge is also much higher.  It's the closest match to my ankle I've ever had as most boots are much lower.

With the lower ramp ankle your foot sits much lower than the UPZ or DeeLuxe as such the cuff feels much taller although the whole boot isn't as tall as the UPZ in the rear of the spoiler.  The cuff and tongue on the front of the S5s are every so slightly taller than the UPZs.  The cuff is more round than the UPZ which is more oval.

The lower tread is exactly like the NW and 951 with the large central beam connecting the toe lug to the heel lug area.  The wider toe and heel lugs make the boot much more stable than the UPZ on flat surfaces.  The perch areas that the binding bails rest on are wider than the UPZs as well.

The UPZ shell weighs 1942 grams while the S5 shell weighs 2119 grams.  It comes with three tongues. The yellow is stiff, the red is firm, and the black is window dressing... keeps the snow out I guess.

The S5's original power strap is stiff velcro (not pictured), ah well I'll put some WC Boosters on there anyway.  LOL, maybe I'll get one of those newfangled Atomic Dual Straps.

Unfortunately, like most of our hardboots one has to guess at the plastic. Why?, just why?  I'm going to guess a mid-grade PU-Ester.  The only stamps say COSI17SKI 270 (boot board) or COSI17SKI-L (or R) on the tongues.

I'm really stoked with the purchase. 

Photo time (note the UPZs have had plastic work done and are larger than stock, also that is not an S5 strap):

Edit- Forgot spring and parts pictures!

N

Note: the boot only comes with short springs not the longer green or red springs in the pictures.

Edited March 11, 2021 by lonbordin
boot talk > pillow talk ;-)

[slapos]

Have you managed to try them on snow yet ? I am super curious what your impression will be.

Edited March 11, 2021 by slapos

[lonbordin]

24 minutes ago, slapos said:

Have you managed to try them on snow yet ? I am super curious what your impression will be.

Looks like April 4th will be my first opportunity. All the local resorts (within 3 hours drive) are closed for the season.
18C and raining here right now.

Edited March 11, 2021 by lonbordin
I guess I could drive 4 hours to MRM... hmmmmn

[slapos]

Damn. Our season here is coming to an end as well

Btw the red springs come from my 951s...

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by slapos

[lonbordin]

21 minutes ago, slapos said:

Btw the red springs come from my 951s...

The longer reds?  Did it just come with short springs? or did the longer greens come with it?

[slapos]

It came with short ones only i think.

Are green springs soft or stiff ?

I decided the short ones didn't give the right feel. since i had few sets from 951 i though it will work...

Edited March 11, 2021 by slapos

[lonbordin]

52 minutes ago, slapos said:

Are green springs soft or stiff ?

The long green are much stiffer than the long red.  I looked on the site... only short ones... interesting.... Thanks for the 411

[Lurch]

@slapos / @lonbordin for context of the impeding torture test, assume these bad boys are the regular flex (not the World Cup) ?