Binding setup to favor toeside or heel side

[digger jr]

Was wondering what experience you guys have had as far as binding cant and lift setup so as to favor the toeside turn or heelside turn.

Ive been struggling a bit on my toeside getting the board high enough on the edge to really dig in on every turn. Heelside is strong. So I put some inward cant on the front binding (was running flat) and seemed better, easier to get the board up on edge. So now I’ve been running 6* toe lift and 3* heel lift with inward cant on both. 

Im also straining the muscles and tendons on the outside of the lower leg, just below the knee on front leg. I’m rolling my ankle to the inside ( lifting the outside of the foot up )on toe turns to get more angulation inside the boot. Maybe that’s a boot canting thing? I do the same on heelside, rolling ankles “into” the turn no problem.

Thanks

Edited January 19, 2018 by digger jr

[BlueB]

33 minutes ago, digger jr said:

So now I’ve been running 6* toe lift and 3* heel lift with inward cant on both. 

Hurts to even read that ;) But we are all different, what do I know... 

I'd probably start with traditional no cants, 3 front toe, 6 rear heel and slowly tweak from there. 

[Corey]

I'll follow this thread closely as I've wondered the same thing.  

My heelside turn is definitely stronger than my toeside turn as of late.  I run minimal outward cant on the front binding and a few degrees of outward on the rear binding.  If I were to exchange those cants between feet, the board would effectively tilt so it would be angulated more on toeside turns than heelside turns with no change in body position.  

Theoretically, this would allow for more board tilt on my weaker toeside and less on my stronger heelside.  

[Beckmann AG]

3 hours ago, digger jr said:

Im also straining the muscles and tendons on the outside of the lower leg, just below the knee on front leg.

This means "No".

Put your cant values back to where they were, and offset your feet closer to the toe side.

Several other options, but start there.

Also, have you always had a toeside problem, or is this a recent development, possibly related to 'new' equipment?

 

 

[digger jr]

6 hours ago, Corey said:

I'll follow this thread closely as I've wondered the same thing.  

My heelside turn is definitely stronger than my toeside turn as of late.  I run minimal outward cant on the front binding and a few degrees of outward on the rear binding.  If I were to exchange those cants between feet, the board would effectively tilt so it would be angulated more on toeside turns than heelside turns with no change in body position.  

Theoretically, this would allow for more board tilt on my weaker toeside and less on my stronger heelside.  

?  I must be having a bad day.

[AcousticBoarder]

10 hours ago, Corey said:

I run minimal outward cant on the front binding and a few degrees of outward on the rear binding.  If I were to exchange those cants between feet, the board would effectively tilt so it would be angulated more on toeside turns than heelside turns with no change in body position.  

Theoretically, this would allow for more board tilt on my weaker toeside and less on my stronger heelside.  

I just re-examined my bindings the other day and have almost the same setup and thought the same thing actually, but I know both sides for me need work, so I'm not going to go changing them anytime soon. 

[ursle]

So, if both boots are tipped to far forward because of either their forward lean or by raisers underneath, you're going to have a great rear edge, and be balanced, and vice-versa, it both boots are tipped to far backwards,  with boot lean adjustment or raisers, you're going to have a front edge that is immediate, but your rear edge is going to be a struggle, get where I'm going? Fine tuning the front foot has more effects on the front edge.

I like to set up for the rear edge, it matters to me that the board come around well on the rear edge, especially the rear boot, most ride with a more upright front boot, and when you go for the front edge, little tweaks to the front boot are the difference between being comfortably balanced or to much front edge, err, it engages so much you aren't balanced, cateck binding are great for setting up balance points for front and rear edges, and you need hard snow, flat hard snow that's hard to balance on, to Dial in the balance point, heck, you can ride a no-board in powder.

I cant  my front binding outward so I have to get my hips off the board before the edge engages, otherwise it's impossible to ride cat tracks, I'm always on the rear edge and headed for the woods, fine tuning binding placement on the board to learn the effect is good. Personally, I move my rear foot toward the front and my front foot toward the rear when I can (wider boards) to even up the hips or align them more with the shoulders, I run high angles and don't want to twist much, I prefer to face forward, thin boards 16.1mm are what they are, no room for adjustment, booting out isn't an option.

If you have pain on  the outside of an ankle or the inside of an ankle, slight canting of that boot to move the cuff in the direction of the pain works, adjust in small increments. Same with the front or rear of the ankles, rear foot ankle is painful in the front, tip that boot forward more.....

 

[Corey]

11 hours ago, digger jr said:

?  I must be having a bad day.

Or it was me who can't read. ;) I think I misinterpreted what you said, I thought you shifted one foot's inward cant for the other one. 

I'm thinking of swapping my cants around to change turn asymmetry. 

[digger jr]

So you guys are thinking the more the front boot is canted towards the outside, within reason, you’ll get on the toeside quicker, easier and at some point heelside will suffer?

Ursle: I think I might well be to far foward with boot setup. I’ll try backing up a bit

[JRAZZ]

Don't know if what you have is like what I have but it might be worth a try.

I used to have the exact same issue, e.i. straining of the front calf muscles. I, for some weird reason, press hard on the ball of my front foot and raise my heel when trying to initiate a toe side. Working on this but I think it's from the way I softboot.

I tried a lot of combinations of toe lift and cant and they were all horrible (down side of riding Cateks - you have too much choice). Once out of desperation I set the front binding completely flat and eliminated any cant from the system. Lo and behold everything became better! Even one foot riding became much much easier.

 

TL;DR - Eliminate the toe lift and cants, narrow your stance, leave a little heel lift on the back foot. Try once in the morning and let us know how you end up :)

* Disclaimer: The above is not a hardboot doctor and the opinions expressed might or might not help you.

[ursle]

1 hour ago, digger jr said:

So you guys are thinking the more the front boot is canted towards the outside, within reason, you’ll get on the toeside quicker, easier and at some point heelside will suffer?

Ursle: I think I might well be to far foward with boot setup. I’ll try backing up a bit

Just your front foot, make incremental adjustments, no hitting trees.

[st_lupo]

Hey I'm going to be the cocky sophmore here who aks the stupid question:  Are you sure you're fully angulating your body for the toe-side turn (not just resisting reaching for the ground but actively trying to angulate away like its lava)?  Personally for each of my turning issues I can trace the real problem back to 1) hip rotation, 2) longitudinal weight distribution and 3) angulation of my upper body.  Given the gobs of degrees of inclination you get from angulating well, I'm not sure that a few degrees of canting is much more than a bandaid which will likely cause an equal degredation of the opposite turn direction.*

 

*These statements are opinion, and not verified fact.  They are based on a very small sample population and while effective for one specific person they should not be generalized.  In rare occasions where the rider experiences sore joints, painful muscle swelling, immobility, lack of range of motion or premature hair loss, changing binding settings and boot canting may improve performance and stamina.  Failure to consult a Phd. of binding-ology prior to attempting to adjust all those screws and shims may result in insomnia, uncontrolled nasal discharge, waste of half the riding season, intestinal bleeding, swollen gums, and, in severe cases, impotance.  

[BlueB]

On 19/01/2018 at 12:58 PM, Beckmann AG said:

Put your cant values back to where they were, and offset your feet closer to the toe side. 

So true! ^ 

Today I rode my swallow, after long time, in heavy snow. It was a bear to initiate the toe turn. I only moved front binding towards the toe edge, by about 1/4" and Bam! It came alive. 

[digger jr]

On 1/19/2018 at 1:58 PM, Beckmann AG said:

 

Also, have you always had a toeside problem, or is this a recent development, possibly related to 'new' equipment?

 

 

Yes, toeside has always been one of my problems. 

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I’m ready to do some tweaking. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by digger jr

[Beckmann AG]

1 hour ago, digger jr said:

Yes, toeside has always been one of my problems.

That being the case, can you dig out some relevant footage from the last SES, etc? I seem to recall something going on with your heelside that might be contributing, but then memory is a funny thing.

 

Also, what are you on for boots and bindings these days?

[mo_writer]

I'm having a similar issue, and I'm not sure if it's because I'm spending most of the day on a freestyle board teaching or if the issue has always been there (I suspect the latter). My equipment is a bit aged but still working, and I don't want to start messing around with cant plates. I was thinking of adjusting my bindings so that my toe is a little more forward, making my weight more centered on the board. But wondered if I should just do that on my front foot or both. When I start the toe side turn, I feel like I have to rotate more than for my heel side. 

In case it matters, I have older Burton plate bindings and an Oxygen slalom board from about 2001. 45 degrees on the front and about 30 or 35 on the back (I just adjusted it recently, and my back foot seems to want to come in more).

[Beckmann AG]

5 hours ago, mo_writer said:

I was thinking of adjusting my bindings so that my toe is a little more forward, making my weight more centered on the board. But wondered if I should just do that on my front foot or both. When I start the toe side turn, I feel like I have to rotate more than for my heel side. 

Try it with both front and rear binding,  and see what happens.

The load-bearing points on your feet are the center of the heel bone, and the balls of the feet (not the toes) so it stands to reason that offset one way or the other will affect the ease with which you will tilt the board.

[Beckmann AG]

On 1/20/2018 at 5:56 PM, st_lupo said:

Failure to consult a Phd. of binding-ology prior to attempting to adjust all those screws and shims may result in insomnia, uncontrolled nasal discharge, waste of half the riding season, intestinal bleeding, swollen gums, and, in severe cases, impotance.  

Also speling errers.