1xsculler Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) Why is it a UPZ size 28 has a 312mm sole when a Deeluxe 325 size 28 has a 303mm sole and yet the size 27 boots used in the boot volume study on this website, i.e. UPZ/Head, Deeluxe SB and Deeluxe AF all have about a 299mm sole? It seems a little weird to me. Up-date FWIW, 2/5/17. Actually a UPZ, 28 has 291 / 312mm indicated on the side of the sole of the lower shell and the Deeluxe 325, 28 has 303mm. I'm going to have to do some measurements to determine what those numbers relate to. I expect the size 27 UPZ / Head boot used for the volume study had 279 / 299mm on the side of the sole of the lower shell. I apologize for subjecting you to this minutiae. Edited February 5, 2017 by 1xsculler error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 With UPZ boots, the higher number refers to the sole length with DIN heel and toe pieces, the shorter one is the length in SB configuration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted February 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) Thank you for that Aracan. That makes perfect sense and fits with why some guys don't care for how short the back of the UPZ sole is and has a significant amount of heel protruding beyond the rear groove for the bail. I just checked using a pair of UPZ, size 29 which has 303 / 324mm on the sole and it fit, with no adjustment, into my bindings which fit my size 28 Deeluxe 325s with 303mm on the sole. The UPZ 29 measures 30cm for the interior sole length and the Deeluxe 28 measures 28.5. FWIW. If I want to fit a UPZ size 28 into my bindings which are currently adjusted for my Deeluxe 325 size 28s I will have to shorten the distance between the heel and toe of the bindings about 20mm. Edited February 5, 2017 by 1xsculler error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 A few things to consider. 1. UPZ makes shells to fit sizes specified as Euro sizes. What everyone calls the size 28 is really the shell for Euro sizes 8.5, 9, and 9.5. They have a separate liner for each size. That shell has about the same interior length as Deeluxe AF size 28. I can fit the superfeet size 13 (uncut) footbed from my street shoes into both easily, with little room to move fore-aft. The next shell size up is a lot bigger, and some sizing charts (maybe not UPZ's own) put a 28.5 in this larger shell; others put it in the 8.5/9/9.5 shell. 2. Deeluxe SB have a shorter sole length for the same size as AF. This doesn't seem to make much difference in interior length of a 28 AF versus a 28 SB. Instead, it reflects the ski binding setting needed, which is part boot interior length and part boot design. So BSL (boot sole length) isn't especially meaningful in comparing across models. But a 1 cm difference in BSL between a size 28 and a size 29 of the same boot is to be expected. 3. When you adjust your bindings, just move the heel forward; leave the toe bail where it is. The boots are actually about the same length; it's just that the heel is set way forward on the UPZ. Tweak afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 23 minutes ago, teach said: A few things to consider.1. UPZ makes shells to fit sizes specified as Euro sizes. What everyone calls the size 28 is really the shell for Euro sizes 8.5, 9, and 9.5. I'm confused, the European sizing I'm used to for men are numbers ranging from 39 to 50, covering US sizes 6-16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 It confuses me, too, so I just call it UPZ sizing. According to UPZ, you're thinking of French sizing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, teach said: It confuses me, too, so I just call it UPZ sizing. According to UPZ, you're thinking of French sizing... Yeah, UPZ's little 9 1/2 tag on their 28.5 cm long liner doesn't help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted February 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Throw the UPZ liner away or buy the shell with no liner, IMHO. My experience indicates a UPZ size 28 (sole length 291/312mm) fits the same foot length, i.e about 27.5cm to 28.5cm, as the Deeluxe size 28 in a 325, at least. The interior length of the foot bed surfaces of both shells is about 28.5cm long measuring from the toe to the end of the flat area of the heel. The heel pocket bulges out more as you go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, 1xsculler said: My experience indicates a UPZ size 28 (sole length 291/312mm) fits the same foot length, i.e about 27.5cm to 28.5cm... Just for the BOL record my 28.9 wide feet with a high arch fit in the UPZ 28's just fine with scarpa liners and home grown footbeds. So freaking comfortable. They're very snug (not comfortable) with Intuition Plug liners and no footbeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted February 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Very good info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 I evidently have about the same feet as lonbordin. They measure about 29 cm with proper support (29.6 w/o, I think) and the "size 28" with FLO "size 9.5" liners and a thin footbed (Sole Thin Sport) fits well. Best combination I've tried by far. Fairly high instep, super narrow heel/ankle/lower calf. I still have some heel lift, but much less than anything else I've tried. People call the FLO liners "terrible" but in my view they're well-constructed, as good or better than those in high-end ski boots. So what's "terrible" about them? I guess they don't fit the majority of people's foot shape? Not a reason to advise others against them, unless you know their foot shape won't work. I'm happy they fit mine, since nothing else I've tried does the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 6 hours ago, teach said: It confuses me, too, so I just call it UPZ sizing. According to UPZ, you're thinking of French sizing... What they call "EU" is actually UK sizing. That mistake has been made even worse by Brexit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted February 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, teach said: I evidently have about the same feet as lonbordin. They measure about 29 cm with proper support (29.6 w/o, I think) and the "size 28" with FLO "size 9.5" liners and a thin footbed (Sole Thin Sport) fits well. Best combination I've tried by far. Fairly high instep, super narrow heel/ankle/lower calf. I still have some heel lift, but much less than anything else I've tried. People call the FLO liners "terrible" but in my view they're well-constructed, as good or better than those in high-end ski boots. So what's "terrible" about them? I guess they don't fit the majority of people's foot shape? Not a reason to advise others against them, unless you know their foot shape won't work. I'm happy they fit mine, since nothing else I've tried does the job. I am glad to hear someone likes those UPZ Flo liners because they are well made. They killed my feet and I have never heard anyone else who liked them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 I am quite happy with mine. I initially wore them around the house for a few hours and haven't had reason to complain (and I had lots of reasons to complain in other boots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Québec man Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 There seems to be more than one version around: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) Just to add to the info... the UPZ RC-10 28 (291 / 312mm) shell has ~29.6cm* worth of space internally from heel pocket to toe tip. So if you're a big-foot and you're looking to size down an entire shell these are the boots you've been looking for! Also if you're a larger guy, which usually comes in hand with the big feet (big feet... big socks), the UPZ upgrades of: Stiffer cuff- http://upzboots.com/shop/upz-wc-rcr-race-cuff-set/ or http://upzboots.com/shop/upz-wc-rcr-race-cuff-set-2016/ Stiffer tongues- http://upzboots.com/shop/upz-tongue-set-for-2016/ (I find the "silver" tongues really stiff, I can't imagine the dark grey) StifferToe/heel blocks- http://upzboots.com/shop/upz-toeheel-set-snowboard-red-hard/ Add a BOOSTER strap- https://boosterstrap.com/ ...will make these the stiffest** snowboard specific boots in production today. *I'm using an 1" wide ruler so due to the curve of both spaces it's likely to be a couple of mm larger than my measurement. **I run the black tongue with my softer liners... so I'm not running the stiffest setup I do occasionally swap to the silver tongues and the plug liners when I race but there hasn't been a race at my local hill this year due to conditions. Edited February 7, 2017 by lonbordin moar... always moar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 12 hours ago, lonbordin said: **I run the black tongue with my softer liners... so I'm not running the stiffest setup I do occasionally swap to the silver tongues and the plug liners when I race but there hasn't been a race at my local hill this year due to conditions. Do you ever mix and match liners/tongues between front and rear boot? Which is to say, selectively stiffer front boot, softer rear boot, or otherwise? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 22 hours ago, teach said: People call the FLO liners "terrible" but in my view they're well-constructed, as good or better than those in high-end ski boots. So what's "terrible" about them? I guess they don't fit the majority of people's foot shape? Not a reason to advise others against them, unless you know their foot shape won't work. I'm happy they fit mine, since nothing else I've tried does the job. I suspect many have unrealistic expectations on how long it takes a quality liner to 'break in', and also how their choice of riding styles can be in conflict with liner construction/configuration. A little selective knife work can really help the fit on a component liner. And of course, one man's sofa is another man's Sparco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said: Do you ever mix and match liners/tongues between front and rear boot? Which is to say, selectively stiffer front boot, softer rear boot, or otherwise? How interesting... I've actually been thinking of trying the stiffer silver tongue in my rear boot... It's been seriously soft here, the thunderstorms have finally passed, and we do have some cooler temperatures forecast towards the end of the week. So I might just try to mix-n-match. It's so easy now as I've modified my tongues and installed the single rivet kit. http://upzboots.com/shop/upz-single-rivet-tongue-conversion-kit/ One screw and bam new tongue, new flex. I'm one of the FLO liner haters. I'd give my set of liners away but I like you guys too much. Let's see... FLO issues for ME. Too narrow, the tongue presses down into my foot when flexing, cold, no room for footbeds, the gaps between the tongue and the sides around the ankle, the tongues can become detached or move at the velcro attachment point, they poke at my ankle at the rear of the liner, did I mention it's like wearing ferrets that are chewing on your lower leg? Oh, and their cold... Yeah I know I already said that but I have never been cold, even in rentals, before in my life. I'm one of those guys that steam rises off of when I'm undressing at the car to go home. My Scarpa (Intuition) liners are like velvet slippers that speak in a comforting and supportive voice to my feet. I slip in, buckle, and forget I'm wearing anything... They feel like an extension of my body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, lonbordin said: did I mention it's like wearing ferrets that are chewing on your lower leg? Oh, that's just terrific. I leased out part of the basement to one of those for the winter, said he wanted to trap mouse pelts for his Etsy store. Should have known the little weasel had ulterior motive, and now I have to wear kevlar chainsaw boots in order to get a good nights sleep?! 22 minutes ago, lonbordin said: like velvet slippers that speak in a comforting and supportive voice to my feet. I'm seeing you in the course wearing a smoking jacket, an ascot, and clutching a meerschaum. Am I close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said: I'm seeing you in the course wearing a smoking jacket, an ascot, and clutching a meerschaum. Am I close? Sorry... I don't smoke. . . Too dry? C'mon EB... You've seen me IRL... You know I'm the gaudiest thing around. The ladies love muh' pants... Edited February 8, 2017 by lonbordin They do match my blue RC 10s. Back on topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 ^KInda looks like Van Gogh ate some bad sushi. I suspect the ladies love the pants mostly as they approach the horizon. I 'know' you don't smoke, but then it's all about the affect. The ascot should have been the tip-off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said: ^KInda looks like Van Gogh ate some bad sushi. I suspect the ladies love the pants mostly as they approach the horizon. I 'know' you don't smoke, but then it's all about the affect. The ascot should have been the tip-off. I don't know why but people really do like the pants... I can be riding my most unusual Hardboot equipment and people comment about the pants. I'm feeling the pressure to get the matching jacket! ...And I'll still offer to buy you a beer... Doesn't have to be a beer at all. We are so predictable. Both really match my baby blue RC 10s... The proper color in boots is so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Must be reassuring to know that passerby are scoping your trousers? The jacket looks good. The pants are trying too hard. I'd suspect with that ensemble that you would have exactly zero collisions/near misses. Outside of immediate family, of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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