1xsculler Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 I have a Burton Alp 71 with an edge high concave base, i.e. about 1mm. I doubt I can take enough off of the edges to get it flat. How important is that? Filling the concavity with wax and scraping across the edges might make it flat for a few runs or more, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 It's going to feel very edgy/grippy... Maybe a base grind would do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 You can flatten the base a couple inches in from each edge by hand or with a base grind. If you try to flatten the whole base, you may take too much material at the edges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted January 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 I've received very good help in an email on this issue and it makes perfect sense. When carving on the edge very little of the base is touching the snow. When changing edges between carved turns it appears, when looking down from a chair lift, that almost nothing touches the snow for an instant. So, I don't see how a concave base could make any difference at all for carving. Riding on a pretty flat cat track might be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 3 hours ago, 1xsculler said: I've received very good help in an email on this issue and it makes perfect sense. When carving on the edge very little of the base is touching the snow. When changing edges between carved turns it appears, when looking down from a chair lift, that almost nothing touches the snow for an instant. So, I don't see how a concave base could make any difference at all for carving. Riding on a pretty flat cat track might be a different story. Yeah, let us know how that works out for you. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted January 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 Jack, From your experience how do you think it will work out? I'm having both of my Alp 71s tuned and will try them out on this Friday. Would you suggest I take one of my flat boards along incase the concavities in the Alps cannot be reduced enough and they're not fun to ride? I would appreciate your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 4 hours ago, 1xsculler said: So, I don't see how a concave base could make any difference at all for carving. Riding on a pretty flat cat track might be a different story. That could make getting off the chairlift a thrilling experience. GoPro footage may be an invaluable contribution to the communal learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted January 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 Getting off the chairlift is a thrilling experience on my flat boards. I'll post my experience with my Alps Friday afternoon. Thanks for the comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 I'd try to get it flatter, but wouldn't spend too much. Probably OK while carving and unpredictable when riding flat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEJ Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 I had a 164 FP with the same problem. A LOT of Burtons have concave base. The problem is, base flat, both edges are in contact. Base flat neither of them should be in contact. Real easy to catch the WRONG edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 1/1/2017 at 10:27 PM, 1xsculler said: Jack, From your experience how do you think it will work out? I'm having both of my Alp 71s tuned and will try them out on this Friday. Would you suggest I take one of my flat boards along incase the concavities in the Alps cannot be reduced enough and they're not fun to ride? I would appreciate your opinion. In my experience it will be difficult and unpleasant to ride. Transitions will be grabby and uncooperative and the board will be unwilling to let you fine tune your carving and riding. We spend more time with the board flat than you might think. A good tune on a flat board makes a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Find a Conquest 12" or 14" flat bastard file. It should be a 'medium' rill, not 'coarse', as the rougher file can also shave off p-tex unintentionally. Use it set at a slight diagonal from the board's middle, but with contact along both edges. Keep your hands just outside of the edges (filing gloves highly recommended here!) while filing. PULL the file from the middle (like a Japanese Kurf knife) to the ends. Always work down the length, never Across the board. The idea here is to shave both edges evenly. Check your results with a flat-bar, be sure to use a good back-light to find the low spots. You can very likely get it close to flat on your own, but a trip to a decent ski-shop for base grind might yet be needed. If the p-tex is too thin, well, then Callen's post has some validity. But with some effort, and a few good tools, you may be able to bring it back to life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Getting off the chairlift is a thrilling experience on my flat boards. I'll post my experience with my Alps Friday afternoon. Thanks for the comments. So I had both Alp 71s stone ground and tuned to eliminate as much of the concavity as possible. One still had .040" in most of the length even though the stone grinding made about 2" flat areas on each side adjacent to the edges. I figure that board is junk. The other one came out to have a .010" concavity so I made a few runs on it last Friday and although is was a little quirky it rode pretty well. I am going to file that .010" out and try it again this Friday. It doesn't turn as easily as my Nirvana Freecarve Balance 172 but it is a little more stable. I went back to my Solomon SX 91 ski boots for this morning and if there's any difference between them and my 325s I would say I can apply more edge pressure with the SX91s and thery're more comfortable. The sole length is the same so I can interchange both boots on Burton Race Plates with no overhang and no adjustments. Since I can't fit intec heels to the Solomons and since I like the convenience of stepins I will probably keep boarding in the 325s using my TD3s or F2 Titanflexes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) That seems like a very good question, Jim. In 2005 I could carve some good pencil line, linked trenches on my Maverick, Alp and SX91s. Nothing serious like on the steeps or anything but, never the less, I had found the sweet spot and then I went back to skiing for ten years. Now I am trying to find my carve again, i. e. get the tail to follow the nose with zero skiddingn before I run out of B-days. IF I can accomplish that trick I want to start coming to Trenchin' conventions so I can hear all about Dick Spector as my role model. I 'd like to break his 86.5 year old age record as a carver. I have thirteen years to go. There's no point in joining you guys until I have a rudimentary carve which I am very close to.....maybe this Friday, next Tuesday or by the time I get back from Whistler the next week. Now to finally answer your question why an Alp over my Coiler? Only because that's the last board I actually laid down carved turns with. Somehow I got this post ahead of Jim's. It should followed his. Edited January 12, 2017 by 1xsculler error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 86! Very cool! I hope to get there, period, let alone still riding. Go find a nice wide green run and do this: http://www.bomberonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/The-Norm-Part-I.pdf Then this: http://www.bomberonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/The-Norm-Part-II.pdf You can't help but carve with these exercises! A big part of getting started (or resuming) is just letting the board do it's thing without any twisting/spinning/whatever from the rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Sculler, with that lil' bit of info, that you could carve 'light' lines on the Alp, but have only done turn that skid some on other boards. may i recommend you ask about for a 171-ish Donek Freecarve 2, one that's rated about 15-20 lbs. Under your current weight. See, Coilers have evolved along the lines of Bruce's racing observations, then the requests (and his further observations) for a board does long old "C" carves, so his sidecuts are 'turny' at the tip and tail, but can be 'washy' when the board is ridden too flat, or without enough pressure. Burton, though, had Paul Wren's Quadratic formulas to play with; A Quad-curve is like a clothesline strung out, but with little weights along it, evenly spaced, but with a steady increase in weight towards the middle. The result is a sidecut that gently enters and exits a turn, but, if pressed near the middle, suddenly hooks up hard. It favors a narrow stancing (less than 19") as well. Donek used a variant of that 14-9 years ago (and, i'm certain, would have that type of sidecut 'on file' for custom boards), until the 20"+ stancing became more prevalent. As for the ATC or ECES, just GO!! One of the BIG reasons for the ECES is to draw in new (or old) Riders that want that Carve! I have NEVER seen anyone turned away, and while the variety of 'informed opinion' may over-reach, I've rarely heard bad advice given. These events are for Learning and Sharing, and have continued their presence on-slope by those virtues. So, Come out and ride with these guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 One obvious detail i haven't seen mentioned is detuning after a base grind. It will contribute to a less twitchyness when riding flat. Personal preference as to how much one should detune will be the next argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 19 minutes ago, lowrider said: One obvious detail i haven't seen mentioned is detuning after a base grind. It will contribute to a less twitchyness when riding flat. Personal preference as to how much one should detune will be the next argument. Absolutely!! An edge-high condition does suck, and, in my neck of the woods, is usually from p-tex burn in that 1cm strip right along-side the edges. Putting a camber-influenced de-tune of -2* from base-flat at those high-pressure zones where Camber Pushes on the edge (usually something like 1-1/2" of edge at the four corners, but it varies with board type/profile/flex/camber/intent, so, ambiguous as usual..) does wonders, and a -1 from flat a good 2" in-board can also help greatly. BUT, it causes headaches later IF you don't note just 'where' or 'How much' the edge was de-tuned. Notation is a good thing, don't trust only in Post-it notes, though! My old Madds 158, tragically in a misunderstood one-day swap, (an appointment the next day my ex wouldn't let me keep), got a 'new' owner, who went and re-tuned it at some shop once it was 'his'. I'm certain that's why it got little more use. I haven't given the swapped F-2 any special tune, just kept it clean, for when I can catch up and make it right again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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