Stances...What are you guys riding.

[ar(angel]

I've thought about having another set of mounts put ahead of my most forward ones to get even further forward. I thought I saw a thread about that some time ago on Bomber about Burners before the new format? I think Frank Morales or someone else who has alot of experience on Burners said the same thing. My stance is at 18.5 right now with my bindings set all the way forward but I'll tell you if you get onto the tail of that thing it'll "wheelie" on you real fast and your off in the trees I don't seem to experience the same problem as much on my F2, but it could be the difference in length (168-F2, 178-Burner) and the difference in tail design. I do look in the direction I want to go, across the fall line, something that I picked up from this site when I first started out 3 years ago. Hopefully if I get some pic's tomorrow it will help in diagnosing my problem....makes it sound like a disease....;)

Thanks,

Paul

[ar(angel]

see pic

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by jp1

To me, reaching around my butt with my left hand to grab my right boot cuff would put would put all of my weight on the left edge of my board, hence making a 'heelside' turn, not a toeside turn.

WHAT am I missing here ??

If you try it you'll find that the only way to do it is to bend your knees deeply over the toeside edge while arching your back. It'll get you so high up on your toeside edge it's scary.

But I think it would make more sense to grab the front boot cuff. Achieves the same thing, but with less counter-rotation.

[Jack M]

No need to apologize. Explanations rarely work for <i>everyone</i>.

Originally posted by jp1

Assuming I'm regular: Left foot in front of my right.

My front hand would be my left hand,NO?

correct.

My 'rear boot cuff' would be my right boot cuff, NO?

correct

To me, reaching around my butt with my left hand to grab my right boot cuff would put would put all of my weight on the left edge of my board, hence making a 'heelside' turn, not a toeside turn.

Pics coming soon. The grab is not the first thing you do - it's the last. The point is, you make a toeside carve low enough and angulated enough that your front hand (yes, left for regulars) can grab stuff like your boot cuffs or even the edge of the board.

But yeah, it's probably just time for a lesson in person. Go see PSR or Beckman.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Jim Callen

Fleaman-

You're dead on with the Prior WCR. It needs a ton of pressure on the tail to not skid out from the turn, and in that respects it's a perfect race board. I just purchased one, and the thing rocks for racing. Freecarving, well, let's just say I wouldn't use it for freecarving.

Rode a WCR 185 today...seemed quite alright for FC. I didnt feel like I had to do anything in particular, and in all honesty felt like I could have thrown everything I could muster at it and it woulda taken it without flinching. sweet fckin board!

I dont race, so dont know jack about it.

oh..stance today was 60/60, 20.5", slightly less than 3* inward on front, and mostly just toe lift on back. Felt wierd cuz Im used to inward cant on back and having none or close to it felt like I had outward cant!

I still get front thigh burn...no idea why. oh well.

[jp1]

Baka, THANKS. OK now I get it, I'll try it on the hill.

Jack, THANKS, I'm making arrangements with PSR.

I know it worked on ski's.

Basically, EXACTLY what a ski instructor told me in my first 'real' lesson on ski's. If you ever get in trouble / out of control, reach you left hand to your right boot, or your right hand to your left boot.

INSTANT turn !

jp

[Fleaman]

Rode a WCR 185 today

I rode the 175 on the demo day, I wonder if the longer board hooks up better and is more forgiving?

[D-Sub]

it hooked up quite well, actually! I have no comparison experience of course, but it seemed like a solid ride

a tad bit bouncy in the chop, but that was later in the day and I was tired

no way I could judge after one day anyway, ya know?

come down to Bachelor and try it out;)

[Fleaman]

I would love to go down and ride some other mountains, but I need more time off. My goal in the next few years is to go to the SES and also one of the Carve Camps at Sun Peaks.

[D-Sub]

ditto:)

[Guest motopilot]

Over the years I have backed off my angles big time. I used to be a 60/60 and 18" wide stance with all kinds of cants and stuff. Now I am down to 47/44 or something like that , 19" stance with no canting or anything. Also went to a wider board, 19cm at the waist. Its a more stabe and comfortable stance. I am 5'10" and 185lbs. Coiler rules!

[bumpyride]

For all mountain riding 66 Front, 2 Degree Cant

45 Rear, 2 Degree Cant

This is the stance that I've been riding for 9 years. Tried a little variance but this worked the best.

Tried running down a icy hill and looked at where my feet ended up. 66 and 45. This gives me great leverage for quick board swings and still very good forward backward movements. It doesn't work that great for strickly carving on the heel side. The upside is that it's great for bumps and powder and making lateral changes in a hurry, and much more balanced for landing jumps. You don't tend to fall over if your center of balance is less than perfect.

Experimentation is one of the great things about this sport. So much can change with angle and forward backward changes, plus everything else that goes on.

PS. Boots are always in the "WALK MODE".

Next time I'm on a strickly carving hill, I'm trying a steeper rear angle, but that's only cause it 550 vert, and not much else to do, so I might as well experiment and follow my own advice.

When I first started out, I brought a screwdriver and changed angles every 2 runs (Bring a flat plastic in the case screwdriver cause you don't want to fall on a hard plastic handle.)

[brodster_57]

Thanks for the response. I ended up changing my stance to 63/60. I like the way that feels. I would try flatter angles; however, my board is not wide enough. As for other changes, I put more forward lean on the back foot and less on front. I am not sure what the numbers would equate to because the AF700's have the bolt and spring adjustments for forward. But there is approx. 1/4" difference between the two boots. It feels good.

Another issue was my technique. I played around with this some more, and my tail chatter was reduced. I have a problem getting too far over the front foot. I was checked after I flew over the nose a couple of time hard. Thanks again.

[willywhit]

Jack, are you sure that avatar pic isn't Brammer aka PSR ? nice form, tho. :p

[ar(angel]

Wal-ah!!! (sp?) Wow, went from 60*F-55*R to 60*F-58*R and my heelsides finally hooked up! I was much better today on my heelside carves than ever before. I also drove my knees across the board and was more aggressive with my upper body going forward into the turn and MAN what a difference. I still got sloppy towards the end of the day and slid-out a couple of times, but earlier in the day I finally felt like my carves were symmetrical and I even caught a little air (and I mean a little...) between transitions. Felt like I was being pulled through the heelside this time instead of just riding the turn out. I also think the comment about "flattening out" my board between turns helped too. I really tried to concentrate on snapping the board from edge to edge (hence the "air"). Sorry to ramble, but I'm just so stoked on getting something right for a change! Get out there people, riding's where it's at!!!

Have fun,

Paul

[ssteff]

I don't care about the stance-with; i mount my bindings exaclty in the middle of the board, 57 deg. front, 52 back, 3 deg, 6 deg cant.

I always look for a board that is at least 19cm of width, cause otherwise, i got overhang.

I have a coiler PR 185, but on crowde slopes i prefer my hot 158, or even my hot 176.

I'm 190 cm, and 85 kg, my feet are size 44,5 .

greetz,

Stefaan

[Mike T]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

I will tell you though, one winter something went wrong with my heelsides. I didn't know what was going on until one day I forgot to latch my ride/walk lever into ride mode. I went for my first heelside turn and literally "fell" forward into the right position and the carve stuck like magic.

I've been using my Raichles in "powder mode" (allows forward flex between positions 1 and 3 - on Sean Cassidy's recommendation while attending his camp) and that has help me tremendously in terms of initiating my turns. For me it's not so much "falling into the right position" as it is "angluating the ankles knees and hips into the turn" - Sean, if you're reading this, I forget the exact words you used but I can tell yo this, it's *working*.

So next time you're out, try to really pressure the nose at the start of each carve, lean in, and then use your knees for suspension - in that order.

When you say "pressure the nose" - can you describe that in more detail, in terms of what you are doing with various body parts? Are you talking about projecting the eupper body over the nose - or are you talking about doing what I *think* I'm doing, pointing the knees out towards the nose but otherwise keeping the upper boady in a neutral position centered between the feet? Or something else entirely?

[forrest]

I've been having trouble with the flexability in my knees while riding. To try and solve this I've been reducing my stance width more and more, now I have the range of motion in my knees to absorb the terrain but my stance has become quite narrow. So I'm wondering if there are any other things I sould try that will allow me to widen my stance while maintaining the movement in my knees.

I ride TD2's 3degree toe/heel lift, stance angles of around 65 with fairly agressive Lange Ski boots.

Thanks

[Mike T]

I'm not a stance expert, but my first thought is that your boots are the problem.

If your boots don't allow you to flex at the ankle, then you can't bend at the knees without your weight going back, and if you do that while carving, you're going to lose your balance and your edge, so rather than flex at the knees you'll tend to stay straight.

I found that the following helped me increase my range of motion in my knees - as well as hips and ankles - while riding:

1) Widening the stance - my inseam is 30.5, when I first started carving I was about 18" wide, now I am 19.25 - 20.25" depending on which board I am on - wider on longer boards

2) Angles on front and back boot closer together - I used to ride with 5 degress of splay or more; now I use about 2 degrees of splay, i.e. 56/54.

3) Stiffness in the boots in moderation. I ride with softer Raichles, in "powder mode", but with a Booster Strap. See description on Booster Strap thread.

I cannot even imagine riding in ski boots. I've seen others make it work very well... but the fellow I am thinking of in particular has a powerful style that works well with stiff set-ups, and he rides with extremely forward angles like 65/65 or 70/70. I like to keep my angles in the 50's and even high 40's these days (in direct contradiction with some of the posts I made last season!) and find that flexibility helps.

[forrest]

The set up you're talking about is about what I ride. high stance angle agressive style, you can't ride with a relaxed or lazy style. I've been riding for 8+ years always with ski boots because I ski as well and two sets of boots seemed like too much, I already look like a traveling circus walking up to the mountian especially since my skis are old 203 gs skis.

What about a wider stance has allowed more movement in the knees, every time I've tried I have the opposite experience that the wider my stance the stiffer I am.

I actually tried a cheap pair of burton reactor boots and I found them to be way to soft granted I think that any hardboots are going to be relatively soft. I've actually been looking around for a pair of boots but the prices I've found is way out of what I can justify.

[Mike T]

I'm not sure why going wider helped me, I only know that it did help. It might have something to do with my bone structure or it might have something to do with a slightly lower center of mass. I'm curious to hear what the experts have to say although I know it's working for me so I'll keep doing it.

Based on my experience to date, I agree with you that stiff boots and high angles dictates a generally aggressive style. I've been unable to get such a setup to work for me off groomed and in bad snow, which is probably more a limitation of the rider than the setup ;) but just the same, I prefer a stance that I can both charge hard in as well as ride more casually.

And with that, I defer to the experts because it sounds like my setup and style are sufficiently different from yours such that my experiences don't apply to you!

[jdgang]

Just started carving this year after about 12 years in softies. I am 5'6" 170lbs ride a speed 160 27 boots. started the year 45/48 17in stance w/7 degree cant in the back. Ended the year 54/57 18in stance w/7 degree cant in the back. up my angles first but still didnt feel like i could carve but when I change my stance to 18 it was a whole different world.