st_lupo Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hi all hoping you can provide a little advice, I've look through a bunch of posts with board recommendations and am surprised at how much room there is to specialize in a branch of snowboarding that is already a pretty small niche. Me: I've been riding soft-boots for the past 25 or so years. I'd say I'm am pretty good, and have primarily focused on powder, trees and off-piste riding while living in Colorado. I typically ride with steep (for soft boots) binding angles 42/25. When I am on the trails it's mainly speed and edges (but with soft boots). I don't do parks or pipes. Now I'm living in Norway and my daughters are both training for alpine (ski) racing so I'm looking for a way of spicing up my on-piste experiences. I'm around 6'1" and approx 190lb, feet are 29mp. Style: I'm looking for a board that is going to only be used on-piste (if I get any powder what-so-ever I'm digging out my Supermodel). The conditions at the local ski area vary from groomed hardpack to chop to sheet ice (Norwegian conditions). The runs are moderately steep (between blue and black diamond) and a tad narrower than typical. I'm not really looking at extreme carving, but I am looking for something that: 1.)Is stable at speed, 2.)will let me carve aggressively on both the early morning groomed runs and out into the afternoon when the skiers mess everything up, 3.)is available in Europe for reasonable prices EUR600 or less. I don't want to have to fight with the world most extreme board, but I don't want a beginner board either. I'm pretty sure I'll pick up the basics quickly so I want something that I can grow into for a couple of years at least. What I'm looking at now: Finding demo/rental carving boards in Norway is pretty much never going to happen, so it is going to be a pay and pray type of deal. *A colleague has an F2 Silberpfeil Vantage and recommends that. After my boots arrive I might get a chance to try that out, but I'm a little worried it's only for extreme carving and won't be as stable at higher speeds? *I've read a lot of good review of the Prior Snow 4WD. Unfortunately it looks like importing that to Norway is going to be pretty expensive. *Anybody know anything about the Goltes Grand Carve? On paper it looks like it might fit the bill (and I really like the price), but I haven't found any reviews of it. If boot selection matters, I've got a pair of UPZ RC10 boots on the way. Thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeseomatic Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 First off, welcome to the forum. Second, speed and edges don't mean carving, so if you don't carve or haven't read the following, please do, it's a good refresher: http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/norm_part1.html http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/norm_part2.html http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/practice_drills.html Third, get used to one thing at a time. Put plates and hard boots on your current board and start figuring things out on something familiar. Change your angles, stance width, binding offset, cant, lift, boot stiffness (walk/ride mode) and feel the differences. Take some notes and then start shopping for a board. I think that you will have a better time finding the European brands, Oxxess, Swoard, F2, Goltes, etc than a Coiler or Donek. As far as a board purchase, just buy something newish and off the rack that is officially marketed as "all mountain carving" board that is appropriate for your weight, you will be fine. Don't put too much thought into it as this board will be a really nice starting point and a springboard into enjoying something new and different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 For an all mountain carving board available in Europe you might consider the Pureboarding boards. They are wider and allow a shallow angle in the rear foot and are made to handle any snow condition. You can read about them in the Bomber store. You could contact Joerg on the Pureboarding site to see if you could demo one? There is a world carving session in Europe that is going on in March. Maybe you could go to that as they will have lots of demos to try. I have a Pureboarding Bastard and it is a great board. Joerg might be giving a how to ride clinc at the world carving session? I went to his clinic at SES this year and it was great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyride Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 First off, I am always in hardboots, and almost always off-piste. I use an old Burton Ultra-prime for days that are less than 2 or 3 " of fresh, up to 5", and especially if conditions are somewhat scraped off. The Ultra has the ability to hold an edge fairly well on the groomers, but excels when you're hitting bumps, steeps, or chutes. The board has a lot of pop to help you get over crud or cut through the crud. I also use very flexible hardboots, Raichle 3 buckle (123 or 122). These give me a great deal of latitude when I hit something hard and they act as shock absorbers. Also use flexible bindings, as I find these to be dampening chatter and as a plus, are easier on the boards. (F2 sport intecs). My angles are different from most of the riders on Bomber. 66 front and 45 rear. I find that these are the most natural angles when sliding down a slippery slope with shoes or boots. Also I find these angles give me much better leverage to effect quick and powerful directional changes when you don't have much reaction time. These angles are not the best for hard carving, but are great for threading through the bumps. You will find that if you use steeper angles on a board, that the torque will increase dramatically. The steeper the angles that you have, will necessitate a narrower board. I bought a half dozen Ultra-primes when they were discontinued. I found a board that works well for off piste and after 200 days plus the first one folded coming off a headwall and landing in a trench. I have over 200 days on the one I'm currently using. The boards are tough and well suited to what you are looking to do. You should be able to find one over in Europe for not much money, and it will give you a taste of what you might be looking for without breaking the bank (which is really not a factor in buying this board because it works). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) You did not mentioned where in Norway you ride, but next week you have change to see and test some Coilers and other boards at Oppdal. And see and get answers in live :) Me and my friends will be there from Sunday morning (me Sunday evening) untill Saturday noon.EDIT There should be also few hardbooter guys from Norway Edited February 26, 2015 by pokkis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Local people sound like a good bet. European boards make most sense in my view. I've ridden a couple of places in Norway, and a fair bit in Finland. It depends what you like, and how you want to ride. You already know that there are boards aimed at specific niches (huge/ narrow / wide boards). If you wanted those you'd already know it. More generally there are many brands who do useful boards you can ride across typical Euro/ Scandinavian terrain. F2 is a great place to start, other brands with similar offerings work too. If you want metal, then obvious manufacturers are Swiss Franc based. If you try it you'll probably want it, although glass boards tend to have more "pop" and are so much fun that many of us rode them for 20 years before metal arrived... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 What I'm looking at now: Finding demo/rental carving boards in Norway is pretty much never going to happen, so it is going to be a pay and pray type of deal. *A colleague has an F2 Silberpfeil Vantage and recommends that. After my boots arrive I might get a chance to try that out, but I'm a little worried it's only for extreme carving and won't be as stable at higher speeds? *I've read a lot of good review of the Prior Snow 4WD. Unfortunately it looks like importing that to Norway is going to be pretty expensive. *Anybody know anything about the Goltes Grand Carve? On paper it looks like it might fit the bill (and I really like the price), but I haven't found any reviews of it. If boot selection matters, I've got a pair of UPZ RC10 boots on the way. You may find the UPZ RC10 to be too stiff. One of the biggest detriments to my riding as a beginner was using overly stiff boots. Just a warning. If you have a budget of 600 euro (which is great) and haven't even ridden in hardboots before I would seriously recommend you buy a couple of used boards in different lengths on ebay.de and see what works instead of limiting yourself to one board. The differences between a short slalom board and a 185 GS board are huge let alone all the stuff in between. But that doesn't mean one board only allows you to do one thing. Don't worry about attaining 'high speeds' on a F2 Vantage. As a beginner you should concentrate on technique and not on speed and the width and flex of the Vantage is a great start, that's what one of my friend's started out with and he still uses the board today. You didn't mention it's length though. Go buy three boards, a short slalom board around 160 cm, a wider freecarve board around 170 (something like the F2 Vantage), and a 'too short' GS board, something like an older F2 RS 177 (the yellow ones). Boom, you've got a quiver good for at least a few years. Use the GS board in the morning and swap to the SL in the afternoon when things become bad. I've ridden on everything from Goltes but seriously, buy a couple of used boards instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Wow, what a great community! Thanks for all of the great info! I appreciate the links for learning the norm. That is pretty much what I've been shooting for when I'm on piste, but I've just had to learn it on my own. The description clearly defines the does and don't and will certainly help me tighen up my act. The description and reviews of the Pureboarding boards (Bastard and Two) sound awesome! That is definitely the kind of style I'm interested in. Its just a little more cash I want to put on my first board, before I learn more about my limits and interests in this kind of snowboarding. Definitely something I'd look into for my second board. The Ultra Prime sounds like a good deal if I can find one available. I've seen a couple of Factory Primes on Ebay, are they similar? Pokkis: I live in Kongsberg. Work isn't gonna let me get to Oppdal otherwise that would have been perfect. I've been to Oppdal twice. The first time was beautiful weather and fresh snow; I really liked the terrain. The second time is was windy and foggy and really isn't worth remembering! On occasion I also make it up to Kvitfjell or Geilo. Finally regarding the metal boards. I've come across some references to them and they are supposed to be good on ice, right? How are they constructed? A metal sheet laminated in with layers of fiber glass or? Is there a specific board model that is typical? Thanks again for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 The RC-10s aren't terribly stiff. Very comparable to a Deeluxe T700 with a BTS installed. The UPZ liner does add quite a bit of stiffness, but I changed it to a Deeluxe thermo liner for more comfort and an even-softer flex. You can change the front-back stiffness significantly by tightening/loosening the nuts on the springs. Metal board layup, from the topsheet down: (metal/rubber/fiberglass shifts around depending on the board maker's preference) Topsheet Fiberglass/carbon Metal Rubber Wood core Metal Fiberglass/carbon P-tex base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 The Ultra Prime sounds like a good deal if I can find one available. I've seen a couple of Factory Primes on Ebay, are they similar? The Factory Primes were race boards and probably not what you want. The Ultra Primes were a lot softer and more suited to free riding but they are pretty long in the tooth these days. I wouldn't pay more than $100 for one in good condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone for all of the help. I just pulled the trigger on a setup: An unused 2013 F2 Silberpfeil 169 + F2 race titanium bindings from carver.si (they were also helpful and quick to respond to my questions). The price was really nice (better than the prices I've found on Ebay for used Silberpfeils/Speedsters), so I might even have enough money left over for a second (used) board with different characteristics if the opportunity arises. Looking forward to running into somebody (not literally) from the community up in Norway some day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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