Basics

[ThatSn1perGuy]

So I am heading out hardbooting for the first time this weekend and want to double check my bindings.  If someone can post good starting angles and a good starting cant of the bindings that would be great.  Also any tips on form for going down regular trails?  I do not want to get in a bad form.  

 

Thanks

[That Guy...]

For your bindings:  http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/Techarticles/binding_setup.html

 

Is this your first time snowboarding at all, or just on hard boots?

[ThatSn1perGuy]

I have snowboarded on an all mountain for 10 years.

[That Guy...]

So read that link I posted and then all of this:  http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/  And hey, while its dated, there's still some good info here: http://www.alpinecarving.com/   Once you do that, go do a day or two, and then read and follow this:  http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration  There's a lot going on in that last link there, so set aside an afternoon to read and follow it word for word.

 

As for tips for going down trails?  Most of your questions should be answered in the above links, but practice skidding and stopping first before you do anything.  Skidding will control your speed as you get used to everything and stopping is kind of mandatory once you're moving.  If you've never experienced a carve in soft boots, you may not even get a true, locked in carve the first day, and if that is the case- where you've never carved in softies- get a lesson or two on doing so.  If a lesson is out of the question for any reason, watching a bunch of videos will sort of make up for the lack of training, but is no substitute.

[Corey]

Under That Guy's first link, check out 'Are You A New Carver', then 'Feel The Carve, Ride The Norm'.

This is the start to great carving. Do it on a gentle slope. Gentle enough that you don't get going too fast. Speed is the enemy of carving when you're starting. You've spent the last 10 years turning only to slow down, now you're not going to slow down as much in each turn!

Once you get the Norm and Norm II down, you'll want to go to steeper stuff. It's far from perfect, but I talk about speed control while carving in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8WCcie09Q0

Good luck, have fun, try to face the nose with your hips and shoulders, and don't reach for the snow! Quite the opposite; keep that inside hand and hip as far from the snow as possible. With practice, the snow seems to come up to meet you.

[ThatSn1perGuy]

Thanks. Just two more questions. Is it normal to ride with only one cant because my board only came with one. Second can someone tell me a good angle to position the bindings, I keep on second guessing my desition.

[That Guy...]

Thanks. Just two more questions. Is it normal to ride with only one cant because my board only came with one. Second can someone tell me a good angle to position the bindings, I keep on second guessing my desition.

 

Cant will depend on which foot it's under and which direction it's canted towards, and angles are determined by board width and boot length.  Did you even read the first link I gave you, back when I asked if you have ever snowboarded before?  Go read that; the answers you seek lie in there.  Also, post pictures of what gear you're using.

[Duke]

Once you get the Norm and Norm II down, you'll want to go to steeper stuff. It's far from perfect, but I talk about speed control while carving in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8WCcie09Q0

Good luck, have fun, try to face the nose with your hips and shoulders, and don't reach for the snow! Quite the opposite; keep that inside hand and hip as far from the snow as possible. With practice, the snow seems to come up to meet you.

Thanks Corey Dyck.  This is a good learning vid.  I have scoured Youtube and it is tough to find the tutorials or even find the vids specific to hardboot carving.  Very helpful.  And, your math isn't off as it seems you were listing power in relative terms and showing that it would be double at the first.....which means that you could have used any number and doubled it for the next two listed.  They did not need to total 100 and they were relative and not necessarily percentages......or at least that was my take.

[Duke]

 And hey, while its dated, there's still some good info here: http://www.alpinecarving.com/   

 

thank you for this post.  That link gave me some great tips!  Particularly the "don't lean into the snow" part.

[Duke]

thank you for this post.  That link gave me some great tips!  Particularly the "don't lean into the snow" part.

In fact this line from rule number 8 that site is one of the best I have seen on any forum or in any book:

 

.....therefore, if a skier still manages to slam into you from behind and cause you to break a tib/fib, you can rest easy, knowing it was not your fault.

[AcousticBoarder]

Not to hijack the thread, but I am also looking for help with basics :)

 

Went up to the local mountain yesterday (Snow Summit) and practiced on my soft boots and Donek Incline as my hard boots have been giving me foot pain and I was having them fitted later that day. I was loosely following the video here and a similar video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLc6zmiG8wY also keeping in mind articals that have been linked here and Corey's clinic videos

FYI, This is not my first attempt, I have been going through the learning process a couple seasons now, but usually only a couple times a season.

I am fairly certain I have my bindings set accordingly, roughly 35 in the front and 32 in the back, setback and stance I think are adequate. Little to no boot overhang. Stiff boots and bindings for a soft setup.

I started out with the skidding by rotation (all good), and moved on to trying turning by rotation (the Norm). It then started getting crowded, expected for a Saturday peak weekend, so I ended up trying to work on form in different combinations on push and pull, hand to knee as in Corey's video, no shoulder dip/reaching for snow, and some down-weighting when there were gaps in people.

 

I faced the same problem I always seem to face: I have difficulty setting an edge especially on heel side, Norm or otherwise, and when I do, I often blow out. If not, I let the carve stop itself. Thinking back, my thoughts are that I may not be initiating the turn early enough - probably closer to the fall line than across, and that I don't have enough angulation. Any trenches I could see from the lift (very few with trail vs lift paths and number of people) started showing up at the fall line. Feels like I am in a loop of not trusting the edge, because it wont catch or I wash out.

 

Side note, when I get sloppy throughout the day or there are too many people and I skid, I seem to counter rotate or stay with my stance more than keeping the form. Maybe I need to take a day to just focus on that? Or I am expecting too much of myself with little practice and in soft boots? Long shot, but perhaps any drills to do off the mountain in between visits that I can possibly gain muscle memory?

[SunSurfer]

I faced the same problem I always seem to face: I have difficulty setting an edge especially on heel side, Norm or otherwise, and when I do, I often blow out.

 

I used to have the same problem. I now make sure that the knee on the outside of the turn is applying pressure to the inside edge, heelside or toeside. It's another way of thinking about getting the body angulation that Corey talks about. To learn how to do it I went back to the green runs and practiced until the carve was clean either side. I didn't need speed to carve cleanly, just better technique.

Edited January 26, 2015 by SunSurfer

[Duke]

 I now make sure that the knee on the outside of the turn is applying pressure to the inside edge, heelside or toeside.

 

(Kiwi)SunSurfer

 

Which knee is the "outside" knee?  I have been thinking about it for a while and can't figure out which it would be.

[SunSurfer]

Which knee is the "outside" knee?  I have been thinking about it for a while and can't figure out which it would be.

Assuming you're not riding duckfoot, and riding with a forward facing stance then

relative to the direction you are looking -

 

when you turn to the left, the right knee is the outside knee

when you turn to the right, the left knee is the outside knee

 

This video, posted already in the Video section, shows the result of this in a series of low speed clean carves in a mild gully, then a flat slope, and finally a double fall line slope. The resulting angulation at the waist/hips is clearly visible, particularly in the heelside turns, which were the ones giving AcousticBoarder grief.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpLOxzHolNg

 

You could think of it as almost lifting up the non-carving edge as well as pressing down on the carving edge. The result is a steeper/higher board angle and good downward pressure on the edge from the body position giving great grip.

Edited January 26, 2015 by SunSurfer

[hachis]

I find this thread very useful!

 

Please, more advices and tutos.

 

;) 

[Neil Gendzwill]

I actually think the opposite. When turning heelside, drive the front knee to the snow. Toeside, try to put the back knee into the snow.

AcousticBoarder, with your lower angles I'm not sure the same tips work but you can try. Sounds to me like the issue is not commiting early enough. In Corey's video he talks about putting 80% into turn initiation. I am guilty of feathering into the turn rather than committing myself, but if you trust your edge and commit early you will get a better result through the whole turn. One fun but scary thing to do is turn until you are going uphill, then huck your weight downhill to switch edges while still going up/across. This gets you that nice "C" track. Hucking back to the heelside edge is scarier as it is blind, so try heel to toe first.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Neil Gendzwill

[softbootsurfer]

may have been mentioned, but try to take the same run over and over so you know exactly what is coming...this allows us to relax a little more and focus only on what the board is doing  Enjoy 

[SunSurfer]

Neil and I aren't really disagreeing, probably just reflecting different faults in the technique we had before applying the tip we've offered. I've had the pleasure of riding with Neil and at that time he was a far better rider than I am now. My tip is a technique that allowed me as a beginning carver to learn to consistently set my edge on both edges, call it heel side/toe side, left or right.

Breaking the line of the body and legs at the waist and hips allows the board to be tilted onto the edge while the rider remains feeling in balance. To get the edge to set/grip the carving edge needs to get the full commitment of your body weight. If part of you is hanging back then that will be transmitted to the board through your lower body, and the edge will not set properly.

Once your body has learned what it feels like to set the edge properly the things we are talking about become almost automatic, built into your neuromuscular memory.

Edited January 26, 2015 by SunSurfer

[Beckmann AG]

Shoot some video if you can, and either post it or send over a link if you prefer.

 If you are having difficulty simply engaging both edges consistently, and then riding the sidecut, then you may well be trying to implement movements out of sequence.

Some of the things you are trying to do are most likely holding you back, rather than moving you forward.

[AcousticBoarder]

I went out today, snow conditions were pretty bad. The mountain was supposed to get snow last night but ended up just getting rain. Soft and slushy all day... But, I was actually able to make more progress than ever before. 

Pushing the knees to the edge helped a lot... It felt like pushing my inside knee helped more in the morning on hard boots, and when i switched to soft later in the day pushing the outside helped more. I also just got new liners and ankle wraps for my old boots, and it has helped out tremendously. I did take some video, I will try and post it tomorrow, although I don't think it came out very well.

 

I was able to keep going on hard boots until there was just too much crud on the run. As it was so soft, when I tried down-weighting into the turns, I went over the nose a couple times haha. When I did switch to soft boots, I found that I was having issues again keeping in the carve. Moving stance around a little helped, but my back foot doesn't seem to follow my front, it always slides out.

 

In all, it was a successful day I think. I had fun despite the conditions. I didn't have to worry about getting hit as much because there were not many people on the slopes, and having someone to ride with always makes it more enjoyable.

[philw]

The main thing I remember about transitioning... from skiing to [Apline] snowboarding in my case, was that you feel like you're going to get hit by all the numpties who used to be slower than you. It passes, they revert to being slow numpties quite soon...

[AcousticBoarder]

Here are the videos from yesterday. Snow was soft all day, Foggy in the morning, by the third video in the afternoon it was slushy, and torn up. Switched to softboots at the end of that run.

 

 

 

 

I am wondering if EC techniques need to be used on softboots? When I switched to soft because of conditions, it was much more difficult to keep front and back inline. 

[Beckmann AG]

^You has a PM.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Beckmann AG

[AcousticBoarder]

Thanks :)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Beckman's pm will probably be very useful, he is more qualified than me to talk details. I will just say that you should work on basics before considering EC techniques.