Board comparison

[John E]

I have two alpine boards. They ride quite differently. I made some comparative measurements of them to try to understand the differences. To measure the flex, I suspended each board on some blocks & put a propane tank on each to measure the deflection. 

 

1) A Coiler Stubby 171. I had Bruce build this for me about 4 years ago. It is a metal board. This was my "dream board". 

 

Specs: Overall length = 171cm. Tip/Waist/Tail = 26.4cm/20.9cm/26.3cm. Side Cut Radius = 11.8 meters (calculated). 

 

Deflection = 23mm

 

Bindings: Bomber TD3 step-ins. Angles: 45F / 40R. Stance = 50cm.

 

2) A Hot Blast 172. Manufactured 1995. I bought this board from a Bomber member as a "rock board" to save my Coiler from marginal snow. This is a fiberglass board. I have been told that these are laminated like plywood instead of the traditional vertical laminations.

 

Specs: Overall length = 172cm. Tip/Waist/Tail = 23.5cm/19.0cm/22.8cm. Side Cut Radius = 14.7 meters (calculated).

 

Deflection = 19mm (somewhat stiffer than the Coiler)

 

Bindings: Raichle X-Bone Carbon step-ins. Angles: 54F / 50R. Stance = 48.3cm.

 

I wanted to believe that the Coiler was the "better" board (for me) but I find myself liking the Hot Blast more. I can get lower in my turns with it and I can get edge-to-edge more quickly.

 

I ride both of these with the same boots: Head Stratos Pros.

 

I'm thinking that the main difference between the boards is the width and the fact that I ride the Hot Blast with a more forward orientation.

 

Is this likely the primary difference or something else? 

[kieran]

45/40 are quite low angles, espcially on a 20cm waist. do you have boot overhang with those?

[Allee]

The bindings you ride them with can be a factor as well. Stiffer/softer interface, and the flex points on the board, all make a difference. You should swap the bindings for a day and see what you think - although from what I know of my Hot Blast, TD3's on that would be like riding a brick. And those angles are very low - I ride 65/55 on my Blast and 55/45 on a 21cm AMT, and that's with smallish feet and the small footprint UPZ's.

 

Boards are funny things. You really like your Stubby, and I demoed the same board and absolutely hated it ... but love the AMT. Go figure.

 

I like my Hot Blast ... I use it one or two days a season and always have fun on it.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Allee

[John E]

I may have the angles incorrect. I don't have the boards with me here. I basically set these up with the highest angles I could achieve without toe/heel overhang. 

 

Also - about me: I'm 155 pounds and an intermediate rider. 

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'd just swap the Raichles over to the Stubby without changing the angles (ie keep them the same as the Hot) and see how that feels. 

[bigwavedave]

I think that the type of snow you're riding on makes a huge difference. The last 2 years at SES, and especially last year, I found I preferred riding an old, cambered, glass construction, single sidecut board (a 23w 180cm Incline) to my modern metal boards. It just seemed to perform better in the soft snow and in busting through the piles later in the day. 

 

At home in Minnesota, it's a totally different story, on our typically hard-pack groom (race course hard), often with a base layer of ice. All the new board construction innovations make one leave the cambered glass boards at home.

 

When you have "hero" groom, a traditional cambered glass board is a lot of fun and you really don't need all the new technology, although a decambered nose might be an improvement.

[D.T.]

John - as others have said, the actual binding, the bindings angles, and also the stance width all effect your kinematics.  I would suggest eliminating some of the variables so you can have a more direct comparison between the two boards.

[west carven]

howdy john e

every board is different and needs to be ridden different

every board has a rhythm and you need to ride that rhythm

don't blame the board, but maybe the stubby is not your style.

if you don't like the stubby i'm looking for one and i'm in the same weight range.

[michael.a]

Why do you have a (2 cm!!!) narrower stance on the Hot Blast?

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess because you feel it makes the board more alive (i.e. flex more)?

Edited January 6, 2015 by michael.a

[breeseomatic]

The following is not scientific at all.  In my experience:

• A narrower board will generally transition from edge to edge quicker.
• On small radius boards, I can not get very low because the turn ends too quickly for my skills to drag body parts.
• On large radius boards, I can drag elbows/knees/hips in the snow since I have enough time during the turn to get over that far.

[snowmatic]

I find myself liking the Hot Blast more

This is it!

What do You think about Hot Blast are made of? They are a piece of old sh**?

They came out from a time where no label was forced to sell some piece of ****. On the Years of 1995-1999 best performing raceboards ever had been build.

I mean the one Hot snowboard You ride, would give You a blast:

I did compare head-to-head Hot Blast also to some actual most famous Worldcup shapes we know. Similar lenght, around similar width, similar edge lenght if hooked-in on snow, about similar stiffness (on Worldcup items You can choose the flex).

There was every time ONE board which did rock and perform. A board which has incredible icegrip, which can be taken every time under control (running silence) and which can be riden in any kind of snow. But just don't think it was a board from the decade we are living now!

And by the way that old Hot Blast wasn't slower on speed compared to boards with new ISO 900000...... Nano-Pico-.... anything else Worldcup race base!

Creating a superb raceboard needs a lot of time, knowledge and many samples which builders throw away, because of not well balanced/usable.

For sure you can ride such thrown-away-boards too. But this isn't what makes fun.

Modern Alpine snowboards which you can buy now, are sometimes recommended on high volume and proposed as state-of-the-art.

Meanwhile I say, many of them are not able to reach the performance of "thrown-away-boards" from the 1995-1999 Years.

Note:

• from that time for sure you can find also bad and not nice to ride boards
• finding NOS boards is harder than ever before
• finding a range of NOS boards (same shape, different lenght) is near to impossible now
• choosing the right lenght/shape/flex isn't possible without having accurate specs. and recommendations from that Years.

There are now countless of dissapointed riders of older boards, just because they choose the wrong board, or ride 2.nd-hand worn-out items.

Thats why in most case modern Alpine race boards reamain as the best way for to go on these days.

And Yes, Modern Alpine snowboards are easy to handle on slope, even if rider is on low skill. They have nose-rocker and tail-rocker, like Kessler and many other brands too.

Rocker give you more fun to ride them flat on the base, but less if hooked-in on snow. Running edge of modern Alpine snowboards is dynamic and in any case shorter! You pay for a long edge but get a short one - so you have to take the longer board for to have similar edge-grip. Even edge pressure distribution can run out of control on that modern shapes.

I did post pictures from Hot Blast on thread here and here some times ago. This photos show us pure racboard snowboarding action, as celebrating there over in the Alpes:

.

Did we saw the last Years anything similar too?

Photos which are able to celebrate hardbooting that way? Tell me about one single picture! From any brand around the world.

We have now Youtube, facebook and more. Imaging is easy and cheap. What can we find there? Exa-byte huge streams showing boring moves on Alpine snowboards only? Wouldn't that be more closer to lame-boarding than to snow-boarding?

There are so many small board builders and any of them told us they make the best board ever on the World! Coiler, Ogasaka, ...... than all the upcomming brands like OES and so on? Joining to that there are countless riding-styles with missing action for sure. Just watch what Russians intend to try-out on softboots these days.

I mean, they are just even more than 2 decades behind (>20 Years) of what we did try and failed in the Alpes once upon a time. Yes, snowboarding is a totaly new sport for them, so they are on an early learning phase now. Just watch angles of softbindings they put on the boards. They are free to do that, but isn't that awful! They wouldn't perform on true slopes, they are limited to beginner slopes.

[purpletiesto]

I like this guy

[ursle]

Comparing a single arc fiberglass board with 2/3rd's of the running length of a titanal multi arc much longer running length and wider board should show differences, the op prefers the softer easier to turn board, but if the op were on only ice, there might be a different opinion, or not.

[John E]

Thanks for all the info.

 

BigWaveDave - riding in the Rockies I'm probably spoiled. If our conditions are less than Hero, my riding falls apart so I stay home.

 

I could change the bindings on the Coiler to be more like the HotBlast & see if improvements follow.