Multiple-impact helmets

[teach]

I had a minor concussion recently. I took a careful look at my helmet, a Giro Talon. I cannot see any sign that the foam compressed at all. That suggests three possibilities:

1) The impact to the helmet wasn't forceful enough to cause compression

2) My head never hit anything; the concussion was from a whiplash sort of effect (the person who hit me was likely going extremely fast)

3) The foam did its job; the nature of the material is just that there's no visual evidence of it.

I'm looking at a replacement helmet and possibility 1 has me looking at helmets which one way or another seem like they might absorb smaller impacts:

-POC Skull Comp 2.0, which has a "Supracor" layer to absorb smaller impacts;

-POC Receptor Backcountry MIPS, which has a shell which is allowed to rotate a bit relative to the liner (MIPS technology);

-Giro Combyn, which has a different liner material (I guess the same as in football helmets... old ones? That stuff? Yikes!) claimed to better absorb impacts like you might get in halfpipes or the park.

-Protec helmets with SXP?

Anyone have any actual information about these helmets, especially comparative (to each other or to say a Giro Talon)? Do I want Supracor or MIPS? Is the Combyn just one of the old-style skate helmets? A few years ago a skate buddy took a slam to the head in one of those (the Protec "non-California" ones) and had a serious concussion and split forehead. Helmet did nothing. He switched to the Protec helmets with SXP. They've worked pretty well for skating for me also. Are the Protec snow helmets worth looking at?

Any other helmets I should look at?

[patmoore]

Scott Wintersports Chase with MIPS.

I haven't sold many of the Chases but the Scott Mountain Bike Helmets with MIPS (Multidirectional Impact Protection System): The Taal, the Lin, and the Stego have been in huge demand.

[neanderthal]

check this out - http://kaliprotectives.com/bike/fusion-tech/

[Gcarve]

Check out 6D helmets. Arguably the highest tech helmets on the market.

[teach]

Patmoore, Gcarve, neanderthol -- thanks for the leads! I spent a little time looking into them and found a few more. In case anyone else is interested, here's a summary of what I found.

-Amplid Plasma, based on "Vaco12" technology, best known as what replaced plaster in casts. Amplid is Peter Bauer's company if I understand correctly. Anyone use one of these?

-Head Crest, uses the "conehead technology" that Kali uses (soon to be available in their snow helmets). There is a Scott bike helmet (Vanish) that uses this also, but no Scott snow helmets use it yet. That Scott bike helmet does not have MIPS, though.

-POC Skull Comp DH Koroyd -- uses a corrugated liner material called Koroyd. Not on POC's site yet, but the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute has a link. Why do I have to find out about this from a site about bicycle helmets? Not sure, but it's a very informative site.

-TSG Arctic Kraken + helmet has MIPS and a special "segmented" liner to allow a form fit. I cannot find this for sale; even TSG's website comes up blank. Anyone use one?

-Troy Lee Designs has a dual-density liner (the current Kali snow helmets have this also, but the "conehead technology" is supposed to be a refinement of this).

There was an Australian Transportation Safety Bureau report on dual-density liners versus traditional (hard) foam. The dual-density approach seems to give up little in exchange for superior protection in lower impacts.

-Finally a company in Truckee called HIP-TEC has a promising-looking liner -- but no helmets using this liner are listed.

-A late entry, the Shred "Mega Brain Bucket" helmet, mentioned in another thread. Claims "maximum allowed acceleration of the head has been reduced from 250 g to 230 g" -- OK, then! Anyone know anything about this company? They use something called Slytech 2nd Skin, which seems to be their own product. "The shock absorption increases proportionally to the strength of the impact and to protect completely at any impact level. In addition, the 2ND SKiN XT recovers naturally from the impact and allows for better protection in a series of impacts." is about all I could find. Complete protection? I like it! But I wouldn't call 230 g "complete protection".

I am seriously thinking of cutting up my old helmet and seeing what force is needed to crush the foam, and what force that would transfer to the head. I have a feeling it's way above concussion levels.

There was an article in Bicycling magazine (article worth reading even if you think the magazine is garbage) on helmets and concussion that sparked a lot of netbabble. Nice that BOL was immune to this. The Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute provided some corrections. I've linked to both below.

The 6D technology looks great, but expensive and currently only in a heavy motorcycle helmet. I would consider it if it were lighter (even at the $745 or whatever!). Not sure if it's multiple-impact or not -- it uses EPS foam, but maybe not in its usual role.

The Australian study is here: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2001/helmet_liner.aspx

Bicycling magazine article here: http://www.bicycling.com/senseless/index.html

BHSI has a good response to the article above here: http://www.bhsi.org/bicyclingmag1305.htm

and HIP-TEC is here: http://hip-tec.com/

conehead technology: http://www.coneheadhelmets.com.au/

Koroyd: http://www.koroyd.com/

BHSI: http://www.bhsi.org page on liner materials: http://www.bhsi.org/liners.htm

Edited January 21, 2014 by teach

[lowrider]

You've opened the can of worms i'll contribute this. Canadian Standards Association and Brain Injury association of Canada have a different take on what other Countries are doing. Enjoy !

[lonbordin]

You can get a concussion from impact that you're helmet can't protect you from... I'm a big helmet proponent (since my spouse is a neuroscientist I'd better be!).

That said many (most) of concussions happen from the brain banging against the inside of the skull due to rapid change in direction of the skull not always preventable by helmet.

Lowrider- Canada's BIA does strongly recommend helmets so I'm not sure what you're inferring.

[lowrider]

You can get a concussion from impact that you're helmet can't protect you from... I'm a big helmet proponent (since my spouse is a neuroscientist I'd better be!).

That said many (most) of concussions happen from the brain banging against the inside of the skull due to rapid change in direction of the skull not always preventable by helmet.

Lowrider- Canada's BIA does strongly recommend helmets so I'm not sure what you're inferring.

The standards Canada has set are above what any one manufacturer has been willing to produce. Most helmets will save the shell but scramble the yoke. Any helmet is better than no helmet. I hate to even mention the mans name but we all know who I am referring to. To survive multiple high speed car wrecks and then get taken out in a fall skiing might say something about how different the products involved are and how different the standards need to be.

[teach]

You can get a concussion from impact that you're helmet can't protect you from

Yes, and I probably did -- that's possibility 2. In that case the only contribution of the helmet is added mass (bad). So all I can do about that is use a lighter helmet, and perhaps body armor -- I was hit by a boarder on the last steep pitch of a double-black from out of nowhere. It may be that all my injuries are from a 40-50 mph hit @ 180 lbs totally unprepared. Hit to the chest or back may have caused whiplash and concussion. Chest/back padding may have reduced the acceleration enough to prevent the concussion?

I'm a big helmet proponent

Me too! I wear them skateboarding, bicycling, rock climbing, and snowboarding/skiing. I would wear them sledding if we ever got enough snow! I've seen some pretty ugly carnage there.

That said many (most) of concussions happen from the brain banging against the inside of the skull due to rapid change in direction of the skull

In fact, that's what a concussion is, isn't it? I'm no expert but that was my working understanding of concussion.

Just in case my starting this thread is perceived as anti-helmet, let me state my concern clearly. In my experience, many hits to the head are not hard enough to compress the (very hard) EPS foam in typical helmets, yet some are hard enough to cause concussion. I am aware of various attempts to design helmets with a liner that's effective also for these lower-intensity impacts (as in: reducing the acceleration of the head substantially) and I'm interested in any information and/or experience anyone has with them.

Lowrider- Canada's BIA does strongly recommend helmets so I'm not sure what you're inferring.

I did not read Lowrider's post as anti-helmet at all. Not helmets or no helmets, but what helmets should do -- I think he is referring to standards helmets must meet. Current US standards allow helmets which do very little to mitigate lower-intensity hits (the main point of the Bicycling article) as the tests do not involve those. I will look up Canada's BIA to see what Lowrider is alluding to.

[lonbordin]

I was more referring to an situation like when a rider falls and the chin breaks the fall on ice and ends up with a concussion. Since most snow sport helmets do not have any jaw/face protection they do little to protect in this circumstance.

I wear this armor under my jacket:

But I'm not certain it would help prevent concussion in your scenario (sorry to hear about that!).

F1 cockpits are better built to withstand sudden stops than the human body.

Hopefully standards and helmets improve because physics isn't taking a day off and we are frail creatures.

Heal well.

[cafe bomber]

I had a good crash a couple of weeks ago and tweaked my neck.I was thinking of using my motocross chest protector with the anti-whiplash collar.that could save a lot of problems,but mobility is limited. I don't think theres a solution out there ,that won't hinder some of our movements.

[cafe bomber]