Summer New Zealand dreams

[RichNH]

Saw something on another thread, so....

Been thinking it would be a good idea for me to play a trip for next summer. Can any of you guys from New Zealand help me with my dreaming?

What mountains do you recommend? What is a good time of year if I want to explore the country a bit too and maybe surf?

Cheers,

Rich

[SunSurfer]

Snow season in NZ starts from late June/early July, but the most reliable snow is in August, while by early September it is starting to warm up again. Fields usually close for the season by early/mid October.

The best fields depend upon what you want to do, whether you're bringing the wife and kids along, and how you plan to get around.

The two highest, and therefore most reliable fields in the South Island are Mt Hutt & Cardrona, and both are good for carvers. Both will also suit beginner and intermediate skiers and riders. LeeHo on Bomber hangs out in Methven, which is the small town closest to Mt Hutt, and about 1 and a half hours drive from Christchurch. Cardrona is a days drive away in the Wanaka area of Central Otago. Snow coverage is quite variable from season to season. Last year Mt Hutt struggled for snow, as I write they have a 3 metre natural snowbase. Most large commercial fields have extensive snowguns, and use them to top up their coverage whenever conditions are suitable. A day pass to ride a commercial field is around NZ$100 (about US$80 at present, but the conversion has fluctuated quite a lot recently) across most fields, though there are concessions for multi day passes etc.

Major commercial fields: (Cruise the websites and dream)

Turoa, Whakapapa, both on Ruapehu in the North island, an active volcano.

South Island:

Mt Hutt

Porter Heights

Ohau

Treble Cone

Cardrona

Remarkables

Coronet Peak

Heli skiing and boarding is also available. Harris Mountains Heliski has been in business for a long time, and there are a number of other operators.

As a carver, you'll need to bring your own spares. There are currently no dealers in NZ selling carving gear.

Surfing in winter is certainly possible and will probably produce the best waves, but you'll be cold. I wear a 5mm body/legs & 3mm arms suit in winter here in Wellington, and I can stay in about 30-45 minutes before my arms are so cold they just stop working and I even struggle to undo the lock on the car door.

Winter water temps off the east coast of the South Island are around 9 degrees Celsius, while north of Auckland the temps will be around 11-12 degrees Celsius.

There are good guides to the breaks of NZ, "New Zealand Surfing Guide" by Mike Bhana and "A Guide to Surfriding in New Zealand" by Wayne Warwick are both on my bookshelf and have good maps to the best known breaks. Your unlikely to get too much grief from locals in winter, they'll be glad of the company, and pleased to have a choice on the menu for the local sharks! Shark attacks are rare here, but, as always, be careful when surfing near seal and penguin colonies. World class breaks in NZ are at Indicators near Raglan, and Mangamaunu just north of Kaikoura, both long, long point breaks, but there are plenty of great places. Raglan is a surfing mecca with a number of high class local breaks, and you should be able to hire suits/ boards there. Hire gear should also be available in a range of other major surfing towns like Kaikoura, Tauranga/Mt Manganui, Gisbourne, and New Plymouth.

We drive on the left here, and every year we have a number of tourists either killed or seriously injured because they forget which side to drive on, or which side to look at intersections. Driving in the South Island in winter is always dependent on the weather, we don't have snow tyres on our cars, and instead use chains to add extra grip in snow/ice conditions. Make sure you get a "skierised" hire car if you go down that path, and make sure you know how to use the chains that come with the car.

New Zealanders are a friendly bunch, but there are plenty of rotten apples as anywhere. Theft from holiday makers vehicles is not uncommon. Drunks are obnoxious everywhere, and NZ has a significant binge drinking culture. Muggings are rare. Gun crime, by American standards, is very rare. The police are helpful, non-corrupt, and are not normally armed.

Politically, NZ is a left leaning country in comparison to the USA, with much more of a social contract between government and society.

If you injure yourself while you are here you will receive first world health care effectively for free (Accident Compensation) in our public hospital system (socialised medicine). If you get sick, as a foreign national you, or your insurer, will end up paying for your care. Evacuation back to the States will be at your cost.

Americans are generally welcomed, although people holding the Fox News end of political opinion will find themselves with little like-minded company in a discussion.

Dream on!!! and make it a reality.

Edited July 31, 2013 by SunSurfer

[leeho730]

I'm not sure if skiing in NZ is worthy of being your dream. At the moment the real snow base at Mt Hutt would be around 70-80cm, the snow cover is worse than what we had in 24th of June and I'm not quite sure where the resort gets the measurement of 3-metre base from. However, Mt Hutt still boasts largest number of alpine carvers at any given time... 4-7. At the moment there are 4 Japanese carvers riding SG and Moss, me and a German riding Virus, a local bus driver riding old Burton. And the off-piste snow is firm so it's no fun. We seriously need another dump or two but the freezing level doesn't look good.

Also I'm not sure surfing is a good idea in NZ during winter, since water is usually freezing cold. Tauranga Bay at the West Coast is a good spot, but far from everywhere including ski fields.

I'd say if you mainly wish to alpine carve Mt Hutt might still be your best bet, followed by Roundhill. Otherwise both are quite boring. Not sure about Turoa, High Noon express chair serves some steep and well groomed runs and if snow cover is good it also tends to be wider. Alan, how does Turoa look? Haven't been to that place for the last 4 years, my life pass is rotting away...

-Howard

Edited July 31, 2013 by leeho730

[SunSurfer]

... Alan, how does Turoa look? Haven't been to that place for the last 4 years, my life pass is rotting away...

-Howard

Howard, since I tore my Achilles tendon a fortnight ago I'm trying not to look. My season pass for Ruapehu will go to waste this year. Turoa reports a 173cm base (normally needs at least 100cm just to cover most of the rocks), but Hutt website reporting 350cm upper mountain and 310cm lower mountain when I looked after viewing your post. Go figure, ski fields are not unlike real estate agents when it comes to describing what they have to sell. Aaaah, that Turoa "powder", so blue, shiny, and see-through!!

RichNH,

By comparison with the big US resorts, NZ fields are small with relatively few runs, they are relatively low with frequently marginal snow conditions. I've read articles online suggesting ski field staff in Australasia have more practice using snow guns in marginal conditions than many other places. The European, US and Canadian ski teams come here to train on the South Island fields in the Northern off-season because there aren't a lot of reliable choices in the Southern hemisphere winter apart from NZ and South America.

I've been lucky enough to get to Aspen & SES the last two years. I'm always blown away by how big the fields are, how many choices there are, even when the locals think the snow is poor how good it is by comparison with NZ, and how uncrowded it is.

I wouldn't recommend Turoa to a tourist, primarily because of the weather. If I go for a 9 day (2 weekends and 5 weekdays) trip I would expect to maybe ride 5 days, and any more is a bonus. When it's open the runs are usually crowded, and the best carving is over by 60-90 minutes into the day. I will usually try to be on the first chair up in the morning to make the most of it while I can. Because it's nearer the Equator the weather is perceptibly warmer and even in August the norm is a thaw/refreeze for the lower mountain surface most days. That's where the "on trail - firm packed powder" comes in, read ICE.

That said, there's a lot more to NZ than just skiing and/or surfing. If you wanted to have a trip to NZ and fit in some of both of those things along the way then winter is your only option. It also depends on how badly hooked you are on snow time, and how badly you need a fix!!

Only other thing to consider is the timing of school holidays, which ended last weekend after 2-3 weeks. Try to avoid those times as accommodation is at a premium and the skifields are more crowded. The Ministry of Education have the term dates for schools on their website and next years should be available already.

[Allee]

There's some pretty good advice here. My suggestion would be to avoid the North Island fields altogether. You can get good days there, but they're rare and crowded. The South Island is definitely where it's at if you're going riding.

Of the stuff I've ridden, Mt Hutt and Cardrona are definitely the best for carving. TBH, the next time I ride in NZ, I'll leave the carving gear at home and take a freeride board, which will give me more options for riding (Ohau, Porter, Craigieburn come to mind). In comparison to what you'll be used to in North America, the NZ hills are tiny and narrow. And be prepared for the traverses up the ski roads. The paved-to-the-bottom-lift road is a rare sight in NZ. One you get to the ski area entrance you'll be driving for 30-45 minutes on a steep, sketchy, uphill gravel road to get to the lifts. You will need chains, and you will need to know how to put them on.

Surfing in NZ in the winter? You're f*^&$%g nuts. The ocean is freezing in the middle of summer. Remember that the next stop after NZ is Antarctica ...

I'd second SunSurfer's recommendation about making this a trip to NZ with a few days of riding thrown in, rather than a riding trip. I think you'll have a much better time that way. I've done a fair amount of travel and I still think the South Island of NZ is one of the most amazing places in the world, and well worth the time to explore. Winter might be damp and cold, but it brings an amazing ambience to the mountain passes and the rainforest areas.

if you need a travel agent that can put together a good package, there's a place in Oregon called Sunspots Travel that I've used a few times, and they got me some great prices on the airfares and motel passes. Worth checking out.

[RichNH]

Thanks for all the info guys. So great to have access to all this local knowledge through Bomber. NZ is still one of the places I really want to visit and this helps me narrow time the best time of year. It sounds like a combo surf / snowboard trip is not ideal...but my Patagonia wetsuit is amazing :) Again thanks for the replies I'll do some more research on each resort!

[Hans]

**** happens, hope you will recover soon enough Alan from that achilles tendon rupture. (Did cost me 7 months to recover for 90%, 24 years ago: full rupture, painfull, I remember).

[bruincounselor]

I've been following this thread as I have a sister in Wellington and the only chance I'll ever have to visit (due to my job) is during June and July. The good news is that she usually visits here in July with her family so her kids get to enjoy 2 summers (if you call it that in Wellington) every other year or so when she comes home. they were here a few weeks ago and got to enjoy 38 degrees for the first time in their lives!

Keep the info coming.

Bruin'

Edited August 1, 2013 by bruincounselor
Spelling, I'm sure there's more.

[kipstar]

I've ridden a lot in Mammoth, Tahoe and a bit in Japan and Korea.

I can only comment on Whakapapa and Turoa, as the south island for the cost never made much sense for me (relative to heading to USA/Japan/Korea) as a JAFA (just another f*(king aucklander is a standard term all Kiwis use).

When the north island is good (which is not so often) it can match a good day at most of these places. Good relies on a relatively bigger snow year, and also, good weather on that day, and riding midweek to avoid crowds, we were spoilt in the mid 90s with a number of great years following Pinatubo eruption in the Philipines, now I think it is back to lighter snow again sadly.

The thing is, the number of good days is not so many, and it is very hard to predict even a day in advance when a good day will be. Also, the snow quality is far down mostly, what you guys call Sierra cement would be considered quite ok snow by NZ standards and particularly by north island standards.

The lifts are a bit of a mishmash of fast and slow with a lot of T-bars (some of which are being replaced with high speed quads) and quite a crowd on the way down (especially as the lifts get upgraded). As it is above the treeline, flat light in NZ is a major issue; I don't think I've ever seen light as flat as this in USA or Japan - yes I've ridden massive snow dumping days in those places where visbility is poor, but in the north island you can get <20m visibility which is like a mist, with absolutely no ability to see terrain you are riding on, and a wet damp mist which makes riding (and on the few days I did gate training especially) pretty unpleasant. As Sunsurfer says, you go 9 days, expect to ride half of those, as the flat light days are only worth it if you have a season pass and want to just do a few runs.

In terms of terrain, I still love Whakapapa for free riding, it has a lot of variation, and some pretty awesome lines to run, in a single run you can get in quite a bit of variation which is similar in some way to the terrain at Squaw or Alpine Meadows. Turoa is a little more open and wider, and has probably the better carving terrain on some level. Glen Plake (skier who used to live in Mammoth) spent a little time in NZ and spoke fondly of craigeburn (for skiing) and also saw the similarities of terrain on Turoa with parts of Mammoth and Squaw. There is some great inbound terrain ungroomed, which is probably the highlight of the north island, as the standards of grooming are a fair way off what you see in Japan or USA. But it takes a decent snow year to access some of this good terrain.

The north island does hold its snow quite a while (due to the dampness I guess) and so the season is fairly long, if you buy a season pass in summer, the cost to break even is only 5 days or less, so it can stack up. I still fondly remember hiking to the top of the mountain from the top of Turoa and riding across down Whakapapa as well as hiking to the top of Whakapapa a few times; it is quite possible to get some decent powder days 'off the top' with some great terrain up there often still not ridden days after a storm. I've ridden at Christmas a few times, as some years the season ran from June - early January, albeit pretty average snow from Sept onwards.

The bad news is cost. NZ is an expensive place for almost everything, for food eating out etc it is something like 2-3X more than Japan, surprisingly. So for Americans, at the moment the NZD is super high, making the cost of riding totally uneconomic except as a holiday with other stuff going on as others have said. Around the north island, for trout fishing, it is unbeatable, the lower limit size is 12 inches maybe 2 1/2 lbs but most of the lake run rainbows I would bother keeping would need to be 3lb absolute minimum, and you can nymph all day and keep catch and releasing sometimes hooking (on my best day) 10+ trout all in the 4lb+ range in about 2-3 hours. For hiking it's quite awesome. Surfing, I have surfed at Raglan (which would probably be NZ's best most well known break) in winter, and it is getting pretty chilly. Big sailing scene as well in NZ. Going to see a live rugby game is totally worth it too.

All in all, having said all of that, when it's good, it can be pretty decent, so is worth a look, especially since you can't ride too many places in Summer in USA (Mt Hood, and some glaciers) but conditions from mid Aug onwards are about on par with Tahoe/Mammoth from April onwards; with a freeze/thaw cycle going and some topped up snow from time to time.

The spring thaw time on an alpine board is not so bad with decent wax, and the runs tend to be a whole lot less crowded; NZers are a bit funny when it comes to snow, it will be packed early season on the most lousy snow, packed on weekends until mid season, packed for school holidays, and especially packed from 10am - 1pm, and then in mid afternoon and late afternoon often quite empty, and late season it can be quite ok to ride as by September, Kiwis start doing other things, plus schools start to get ready for exams at year end.

It's many years since I rode in NZ, but common wisdom is not to ride an excessively long board; I am leaving my SG180 back in Thailand this trip coming and taking a 162 Oxess, something that you would not ride in USA (probably) but would be perfect for the north island, as the run will have little cat tracks in places, moguls, the variety means you want a not too long board. Also this is partly due to my healing ACL injury. Also, you WILL clip rocks in the north island if you ride off piste at all, they are all over the bloody place.

Key Kiwi phrases to fit in:

- sweet as (you don't need to say as what - you can use this with almost any description e.g. hungry as, tired as, beached as)

- choice bro (great)

- pali (white person - used mostly by Pacific islanders)

- what the F&*k are you lookin' at? (used if you want to pick a fight with someone)

- aye (add onto the end of any sentence which isn't a question for emphasis)

- chups (what we eat)

- sux (the number six)

- JAFA (refer above)

If you understand why this is funny, then you are a Kiwi

[SunSurfer]

... so her kids get to enjoy 2 summers (if you call it that in Wellington) every other year or so when she comes home. they were here a few weeks ago and got to enjoy 38 degrees for the first time in their lives!

Keep the info coming.

Bruin'

We get summer alright, with Wellington roughly the same distance from the Equator as Barcelona in Spain. Actual temperatures are moderated in NZ, summer and winter, by having nowhere more than about 120km as the crow flies from the Southern Ocean/Tasman Sea/Pacific Ocean. Summer temps in Wellington frequently hit the upper 20s C and rarely 30+. Fair skin will burn in about 8 minutes in midsummer because the air is clear in a way that most Northern Hemisphere visitors don't grasp until their first severe sunburn. I routinely look out my back door and can clearly see a tall peak in the South Island, Mount Tapuaenuku, that is just over 120 km away. In part the air is that clear because the city is well ventilated, with an average wind speed twice that of Chicago. But when the air has travelled pretty much non-stop since it last passed over land in South Africa (oops, checked Google Earth, make that South America for that westerly wind in the Roaring Forties) it's also pretty clean.

Edited August 2, 2013 by SunSurfer

[kieran]

Fair skin will burn in about 8 minutes in midsummer because the air is clear in a way that most Northern Hemisphere visitors don't grasp until their first severe sunburn.

.. also in part to the depletion of high-atmospheric ozone that has previously been experienced down your way. though i have read that it is recovering slowly.

[SunSurfer]

My understanding is that the polar ozone hole is maximal in spring, Sept through to Dec, and it generally doesn't actually reach NZ. Nevertheless there is also an area of ozone thinning in the middle latitudes rather than the massive reductions that occur in the polar regions. NZ spans between about 34 degrees to 48 degrees latitude so is definitely middle latitudes. By late summer the polar hole has usually disappeared due to mixing of the air with more ozone rich atmosphere. The Montreal Protocol on CFC reduction appears to have led to a reduction in the size and severity of the hole which still appears each year.

Whatever the reasons, you can't buy sunblock in NZ that has a nominal UV protection factor less than 30, and with an outdoors loving population, we have a very high incidence of skin cancers of all types.

[bruincounselor]

Fair skin will burn in about 8 minutes in midsummer because the air is clear in a way that most Northern Hemisphere visitors don't grasp until their first severe sunburn.

My sister's kids are both redheads so I've heard about the power of the sun. Her kids instinctively cover up any time they are outside (unlike the American cousin). The 38 C was at almost 47 degrees North - this was a continental heat that includes opressive humidity.

[kipstar]

The sun in NZ is brutal. It is much hotter in Thailand, but burn time here is something like 5X slower on the worst days....in NZ you can actually feel yourself getting cooked. I have peeled skin here maybe 2-3X in 10 years including sailing windsurfing, cable ski etc. By comparison almost every year at some point in NZ I used to end up outside even with hat or sunscreen, and end up burned.

Bringing back to Ruapehu, I have suffered massive sunburn one year riding in November, when I wore sunscreen without reapplying at lunchtime. Peeled and blistered, took a long time to recover from it. The same season (from memory) hiked to the top of the mountain with a German who insisted he didn't need goggles or glasses. He ended up spending the next 3 days in a dark room with some sort of eye issue where he'd burned out his eyes....combined with full on blistering multiple layers of skin peeling.

If nothing else, you can bring back some great memories of Kiwi sun.

[dbmgreen]

Cardrona in early October a couple of years ago was pretty wonderful for us, We stayed at a resort in Wanaka and skied Cadrona / TrebleCone / Remarkables and Mt Dobson, all pretty good places had lots of fun! Met some hard booters at Treble Cone

[leeho730]

Well, Mt Hutt on Sunday two weeks ago. NO NEW SNOW SINCE 14TH JULY, BTW.

Went to Mt Dobson today. There was some surprisingly good trails for beginner and intermediate carvers, and thanks to high base altitude of 1727m (in NZ standard anyway), snow was fairly ok.

Good beginner and intermediate trail: FLATOUT next to Triple Chair. Wide groomed and uncrowded run, but lower half consisted of narrow trail and some upper sections were way too flat (<10 degrees, on average 15-19 degrees) and chairlift was slow as. Trail itself was really short, too. So I got kinda bored after maybe 2 hours.

Good beginner trail: 3RD VALLEY next to the Platter lift. Fairly wide, mellow gradient, groomed, uncrowded but platter lift was slow!

The operation of the resort itself is subject to wind condition as much as Mt Hutt. Quite often the mountain shuts due to wind.

Roundhill is a good hill for beginner and intermediate carver (15-20 degrees wide groomed runs) and Lake Tekapo is a good place to stay with thermal pool/toboggan/ice skating resort and fairly OK night life. Recommended runs are OUTER SPEEDWAY and AUD'S WAY off T-BAR LIFT and OZZI'S WAY next to T2 LIFT (wide nice groomed run but too short). On powder day, Rope tow (if you can handle it) provides steep wide powder runs. Canadian and US ski teams often train here. went there 4 weeks ago on powder day, and seriously it was like heli skiing whole day with no crowd and fresh powder whole day. Probably one of the best skiing days I've ever had in NZ...

So skiing in NZ is like gambling; on powder day it's awesome but we rarely get it. Get your crystal ball....

Edited August 4, 2013 by leeho730

[SunSurfer]

"Yeah, right" laid back NZ slang for "I DO NOT believe you!!!" or more off colour words to that effect.

Used to good effect as the tag line for a local brewery (Tui) ad campaign that has run for several years, hence leeho730's picture.

As in "I did not have sex with that woman" Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky. "Yeah, right"

[SunSurfer]

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/oxBXiXt_o2E" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

Dream fodder.

NZild with English subtitles.

Edited August 5, 2013 by SunSurfer

[Allee]

Ha ha ha, the marketing guys for Tui are geniuses. Their billboards are always brilliant.

Yeah right.

Sweet as.:)

[Neil Gendzwill]

I don't think I've ever seen light as flat as this in USA or Japan - yes I've ridden massive snow dumping days in those places where visbility is poor, but in the north island you can get <20m visibility which is like a mist, with absolutely no ability to see terrain you are riding on, and a wet damp mist which makes riding (and on the few days I did gate training especially) pretty unpleasant.

Big White (AKA Big White-Out) in BC and Whitefish in Montana can both get days with visibility closer to 2 m rather than 20. It is very disorienting. Sometimes you can't even tell if you are moving, you think you are stopped then discover you are sliding. Or you just simply lose your balance and fall over due to no reference points as to which way is up.

Interesting reading about the NZ conditions, thanks all! I am very likely to be in Aukland for business this January or February so I guess no riding for me but looking forward to doing a bit of touristy stuff if I have time.

[Michelle]

awesome info, and just as I remember it. I was in NZ a long time ago, but the conditions have not seemed to change. Spent about 6 weeks in Methven and Mt Hutt and i can remember very well the road leading up to it! Scary indeed. There are so many things to do in NZ and even in the drab times of the winter still a ton of fun doing all the touristy things on the south island. One day I will make it back and check out the summer!