Chiropractors vs. Sciatca ...calling Dr. Dave

[Algunderfoot]

Here you go Dr. S...

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Just an update as I am in my 4th week of PT. I have regained my limberness in my hamstrings to pre surgical range and I am feeling enough relief to get back to a more active lifestyle, (eg. gym, bicycling for now) They plan a re-evaluation after next week and if there is still nimbness in my foot will order an MRI.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Has anyone mention any of the traction devices yet? Inversion Tables , "Back Bubble" , Traction belts, Traction ramps/ balls. Just curious.

Al, good to hear your progress.

Edited May 17, 2013 by www.oldsnowboards.com

[Algunderfoot]

No not yet Bryan,

I have an inversion table, something I've used religiously for years. They will do a re-evaluation in a week...we'll see what's next.

[davekempmeister]

look simple,:nono:watch it only dont try to do it to your friend, it may cause more problems, it is better save for accute puncher doctor.

true that one should not watch youtube and attempt to perform TPDN on a friend.

not true that one should seek an acupuncturist (accute puncher?) to experience the benefits of TPDN - they are not the same. only the implement (needle) is the same and nothing else.

TPDN is based on western principles and Acupuncture, eastern. TPDN's efficacy relies on a highly localized and involuntary twitch response in the muscle fascia (not full muscle spasm) and Acupuncture's efficacy is to do with life energy/meridians. I'm no expert but this much I know. not only are these two medical communities distinct from one another but they are at serious odds with one another over issues related to scope of practice.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Seems like allot of BOL members are in the same spot. Hopefully we all find something that works to relieve the pain and allow us to ride. I am learning from the thread. Bryan

[Algunderfoot]

UPDATE: I've been pain and numbness free for about a week now, all sciatic symptoms have subsided. 6 weeks of EMS treatments, lower back strengthening excercises, hamstring and hip flexor stretches, and Chiropractic adjustments. The true test will be on the slalom ski as soon as weather permits, but needless to say the choice I made has worked for me so far!

[SunSurfer]

UPDATE: I've been pain and numbness free for about a week now, all sciatic symptoms have subsided.....

Al, that is great news!!!!!

My own sciatic symptoms are also substantially better and I'm no longer using any meds (pain since August 2012, disappeared with a steroid epidural in mid January 2013, then recurred at a lower level), but no specific treatment was involved over the last couple of months apart from exercises and stretches.

The natural history for sciatica is for it to get better in many sufferers by itself. And it's that, that makes working out what really helps as a treatment so difficult. For an individual, they may do any of the wide range of treaments on offer and then get better and, in their mind there is a clear connection between the treatment and the improvement.

You may have seen Sean and Fin's snowboard mythbuster video thread that's just started. Medical science, in the form of randomised, controlled, and blinded trials, is a genuine attempt to determine the myths and truths around treatments for conditions like sciatica. Anecdotal reports, like yours and mine about an individual's progress, while heartening when things get better, are of little value in determining what really works.

[floBoot]

I have been visiting a chiropractor for the past 2 Weeks, 3 times a week. It's quite a good feeling having the spine cracked into place. The guy offered this 4 Weeks for free. You may wonder why? I was in a desperate state when I got to his office, I reeled of a load of medical problems that I have/had. Fed up with the Doctor/ specialists just watching me deteriorate and waiting with their surgical knives to cut me open again, and that I want another way! when I went back after our initial consultation which cost me 65 quid, I thought we was going to tell me he couldn't help plus I thought he may see me as a middle aged mad women:eek: much to my surprise he said he wanted to take me on as a clinical trial and offered the most intensive part of his treatment free:D

I chose this physical option as a) I wanted to come off my inhaler b) I have a rare lung condition that is getting worse.

I have avoided seeing the orthodox/allopathic/western medicine style specialist for about 3 years, as the last few times I visited he kept mentioning lung transplants. trouble being he would not answer any of my questions straight. So I plucked up the courage to go back again a couple of months ago where I was given the usual bad news that TBH I didn't want to hear. Needless to say I broke down in his office flooding the place with tears.

I've also stopped wearing make up to work because it's usually cried off before I get there :rolleyes:

I've only over the past 3 years woken up to the medical tyranny that prevails in western medicine ie pharmaceuticals making money our of sick people. How on earth could they make money if we all really knew how to look after ourselves properly. I've been an avid reader of medical and alternative literature over these recent years to find another way.

This condition I have came to light over 20 years ago but on a different organ where I underwent surgery to have it removed. I ran a full 26.2 mile marathon a year later to prove to myself I was fit both physically and mentally and it wouldn't get me down. 5 years after that I had a collapsed lung. Biopsy taken, same condition now attacking my lungs. I've had as mentioned on this site a pleurodesis on each.

There's only so far a girl can go with these ops...I told the consultant no lung transplants for me:nono: no way...Hose..the medical system plant the seed of thought as they see me as a 'good' candidate in a few years time. So does that mean I only have another 5 years of snowboarding before I can't breathe enough to walk and they whip me in for the OP?

The good news is: I have been inhaler free for 6 Weeks, after initially suffering quite severely for about 3 weeks with my breathing wondering if I was doing the right thing, the chiropractor treatment also had made a big and positive improvement and gave me hope to stick with it, I have decided to treat myself at home with the Gerson diet which oddly enough is 98% vegan which I am of course but it is much more strict in things you should and should not eat. It's very time consuming which i'm still adjusting to my mistakes of forgetting things.

Since doing the two treatments my breathing is already better than it has been in over 10 years. I bought a monthly pass at the local fridge been snowboarding for past 3 weekends and performing better technically, speed wise and stamina...i stay at slope all day and do about 8-10 hours of slope time:1luvu:

No allopathic doctor is going to tell me what lies ahead..I will make that decision for myself:angryfire ...

...anyway my aim is to snowboard like you guys n gals on here:) and that's gonna take a few years!

as TwoRavens and Jimmy Zell says " it's not everyday that's a blessing but every breath" or something like that.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Wow Flo. That's what I would call a "Testimony" . Glad to hear of the improvements!!!

Tell us more about the "Fridge" . Never been to one. Photos?

Keep up the good work!!

Bryan

[philw]

I work with evidence-based medicine.

On the other hand I know about Fridges - here's a video from a couple of years ago.

They're kind of small and kind of slow, and can get busy if you go at the wrong time. The snow quality can be variable.

Personally I prefer plastic (outdoor) slopes as they tend to be bigger and faster (snow is faster than plastic, so they make the plastic slopes steeper...), and the surface is less forgiving of poor technique.

https://vimeo.com/20111958

[floBoot]

Old snowboards, as usual I have no video or pics..I'll try next time.

Philw, evidence based medicine has it's place. However, different ways of looking at medicine can come from different theories. It appears to me that allopathic medicine does its best to stop naturopathic medicine being taken seriously. Everything is geared towards money for pharma.

My doctor and specialist do nothing to help me find answers to what might be causing my condition but they'll offer me drugs long term and operate on me when I almost can't breathe. I used to believe this system cared but I realise from hard luck facts in my case that it doesn't.

So I decided to try and do something about it myself. Thus I've learned a different way to approach my health after like so many believing my doctor and specialist.

Each to their own really. I an aware that wouldn't be alive today if hadn't been operated on but I just wish these two industries could work alongside each other in an altruistic way.

All I can say is i'm glad I've woken up and I have a different path to follow .

[Corey]

...I just wish these two industries could work alongside each other in an altruistic way...

I couldn't agree more! Both sides have their extremists that try hard to discredit the other side. It would be interesting to get more double-blind studies that aren't funded by the drug companies. It seems like many of the naturopathic studies don't have enough controls in place to guarantee a true positive double-blind result, which leads to scorn from reviewers eager to discredit the results. Those results may very well be accurate and well-intentioned, but they may also be paid participants and/or people experiencing a placebo effect. If there is any doubt of the validity of the test, put me on the skeptic side of the debate.

In my mind, naturopathic medicine needs to be held to the same standard as 'conventional' medicine, and then the world will be a true believer. But, those tests are bloody expensive so it'll probably never happen. So, I tread carefully...

[philw]

... In my mind, naturopathic medicine needs to be held to the same standard as 'conventional' medicine ...

On that *specific*, there's an interesting bit of UK case law published on July 3rd, which is a move in precisely that direction:

http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2013/7/Society-of-Homeopaths/SHP_ADJ_157043.aspx

Quite why it's taken so long I don't know.

[kieran]

sorry, sometimes i can't help myself.

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[floBoot]

Philw an interesting read.

I agree that their are unscrupulous offerings of alternative medicine. I certainly do my best to keep an open mind on both sides. As much as this homeopathy was seen to breach codes etc. I also bear in mind that the law can be set up in such a way as to make alternatives appear unscrupulous. at times laws need changing to suit moving times. The western medical system could do this if they wanted to embrace different approaches. I feel they don't because they cannot patent nature.

Kieran,, that video made me laugh. I do come across people that are so into their alternative stuff that I find them weird.

Still I live in hope that being slightly obsessed with my diet may help any further deterioration our if i'm lucky eliminate what I have:)

In the meantime, my problematic toe edge carving has come on a treat. Holistically, I advocate everyone eats tons more veg if they want to improve their toe side turns:rolleyes:

[SunSurfer]

Philw an interesting read.

I agree that their are unscrupulous offerings of alternative medicine. I certainly do my best to keep an open mind on both sides. As much as this homeopathy was seen to breach codes etc. I also bear in mind that the law can be set up in such a way as to make alternatives appear unscrupulous. at times laws need changing to suit moving times. The western medical system could do this if they wanted to embrace different approaches. I feel they don't because they cannot patent nature.

Plenty of unscrupulous offerings from "big pharma". Read "Bad Pharma" by Dr Ben Goldacre, a medical doctor in the UK, known initially for his book and InterNet web site exposing bad "science". He is passionately angry at how medical scientific knowledge has been debased by pharmaceutical companies' manipulation and suppression of data from trials of many different drugs.

Anywhere there is money to be made, be it alternative or conventional medicine or any other area of human endeavour, there are people willing to fleece those who are desperate for help.

SunSurfer

[floBoot]

Sunsurfer, I hadn't heard of dr goldacre,, something more for me to read.

pharma have some very dangerous drugs that doctors legally push onto the public. So yes I wonder at the efficacy of the tests done and then of course the statistical analysis of results.

Its very challenging and complicated times we are in. my method of trying to heal myself is based on reading and intuition (as much as the scientific community would scorn at the latter). My reason for chiropractic treatment was partly both reasons. I felt my spine was wonky but I also thought for any good nutrition to have a as best chance as possible to feed all areas that there shouldn't be nervous system blockages.

But hey ho got to give these things a go:) I'll be getting some more clic_clacs tonight

[John Gilmour]

Has anyone mention any of the traction devices yet? Inversion Tables , "Back Bubble" , Traction belts, Traction ramps/ balls. Just curious.

Al, good to hear your progress.

Test to lock this in.

[John Gilmour]

Has anyone mention any of the traction devices yet? Inversion Tables , "Back Bubble" , Traction belts, Traction ramps/ balls. Just curious.

Al, good to hear your progress.

Ok I may have a good answer for you.

About a year ago…

I got hit by a chairlift while carrying a bunch of gear.

I rode some, and found my back hurting more , and I also noticed I looked like I had gained some weight in the mirror. Though oddly I did not feel any heavier.

I had sciatica and just generally wasn't sleeping as well. I didn't weigh any more.

So I went for my check up which included checking my height. I had shrunk from 5'10" to 5'7.5". And the "extra weight" was my body slumped on my G force compressed spine like a sock that had fallen down. With the chairlift hit my spine was out of alignment...and wasn't bouncing back normally..

So pulling G's all these years had taken some toll. I would usually decompress in summer, but because I was out of alignment my spine was literally MUSCULARLY tugging to make it more compressed.

Aspen has a huge population of customers for chiropractors. Doctor Dave kills it and can afford the best gear. He used to have an insanely huge building, he sold everything uner the sun, massage chairs, alkaline water makers, lumbar supports.... skin products..you name it...he was a marketing machine... but most importantly- he knows how to fix backs. He has a lot of practice. And a lot of parents that will pay for extra visits to keep their kids spines in tip top shape.

So Aspen is good for Chiropractors because:

The visitors can afford it And pay out of pocket.

The locals get workers comp

The mountain consistently has snow/terrain that allows you to pull lots of G's

Nearly every day is a good day for pulling G's

Doctor Dave Jensen is the guy who fixes up a lot of the X gamers. We have all seen Gretchen Bleiler eat it face first in the 1/2 pipe. Who fixes her ? Doctor Dave.

So a couple of things are going on…according to Doctor Dave. When spines get really out of whack. The muscles spasm, and oddly conspire to keep you out of whack. Your spine physically is out of place, and there is a wearing pressure on the disc and nerves and bones can deteriorate if you don't take care of this right away.

So Dr. Dave Jensen hits it with a bunch of modalities…all at once. Best is to do all 4 in the same day or at the very min. 2 per day. in sequence.

Massage/ heat to loosen you up- pre adjustment so the adjustment works with less shock to the area. 1 hours worth.

Chiropractic adjustment 5 min.

Spinal decompression /traction machine/ ice 30 min (For me he uses 135-155 lbs of traction- the machine is not a straight traction machine… it pulls to maintain the curve of your spine and can even do a twisted pull to untwist you. It senses how you fight against it and is computer controlled and tricks the muscles into relaxing. You feel like human taffy. Apparently there are only 5 of these machines in the USA. I think they are in Aspen, Florida and Chicago. really expensive machines...

ICE....you'll want this. ICE never felt so good...your spine is plenty pissed and paranoid right off the machine. Ice lets it all calm down.

Acupuncture/EMS (Electro muscle stimulation packs - to exhaust the spasming side completely so it relaxes) . So you can relax the tense muscles on one side of the spine, and contract the muscles on the other side (Naturally happens to support the spine when you exhaust one side).

After 4-6 sessions..I was once again 5'10" tall. It looked as though I lost 15-20lbs. but I was the same weight. I had to adjust my car seat and mirrors.

What was really weird was after you get up off the traction machine. (Spinetronics) http://www.antalgic-trak.com/animation/

and they totally untwist your spine, not just lengthen it (They can do twisting taffy pulls with intense lumbar support...and twisted cervical pulls.. You feel your discs hydrating …like sponges sucking up water. But you feel off balance because your eyes are at a different height. Your natural spinal curvature is restored..as opposed to straight stitchers that remove the curve and ability to absorb shock. Dr. Jensen's machine spaces out your vertebra and discs without flattening your spine. its pretty amazing feeling… unnerving at first because you feel unstable coming out of the traction harness.

I can twist my neck without any grinding…after wrestling in HS my neck was shot and made tons of noise and had to be cracked several times a day. After this machine it was gliding like two sheets of glass with grease between them,…. completely silent rotation. . same with my spine. My GF had a 5 year neck issue and was cured in a single session. I was 100% cured a few years ago- and then got messed up by the chairlift.

Then insurance companies started screwing with his program and limited him to one modality per day… stupid really because then it takes like 15-20 modalities instead of 3 intensive visits to get better. without getting the spine relaxed/vertebra alignment corrected/ elongated/ muscular adjustments in COMBINATION it takes much longer to get better. Its like doing your base one day, the edges the next, and waxing on the 4th day.. You really need it all at once to perform. Piecemeal doesn't cut it.

Dr. Dave Jensen, The WIN Institute Aspen CO.

http://www.winhealthinstitute.com

If you have to fly there and spend a week... just do it. Even better money spent than blowing it on heliskiing.

Is this hyperbole? No, he has helped several paralyzed people recover 100% using this machine,,Some people have gained much more height than I have.