Consdering move up to TD3's

[icebiker]

I need some advice on whether to stick with my current Race Plates or move up to TD3's. I have read on these forums that the Burton bails are prone to breakage over time. I bought a pair of front and rear IBEX bails as a precaution, but don't really want to think about the consequences if one should break mid-carve. My Race Plates are likely 10 years old at a minimum (orange body, without the textured toe/heel blocks). I bought them a few years ago from a BOL'er, and they are in great shape. I don't feel they are affecting my performance, only my confidence in pushing more aggressive carves. The reason for my concern is that I'm 6' 3", MP 31.5 and 210 lbs (not including boots and gear), which is a lot of leverage on the bindings during turns. I ride a year-old Donek Axxess 172, so I'm not concerned about the board. I'd consider myself an "intermediate +" carver, and prefer long speed-scrubbing turns versus fast fall-line screamers. My boots are Track 225's.

So my questions:

1) Do I have reason to be concerned, or do you think the Race Plates are ok based on what I've described above?

2) If you think TD3's are in order, what elastomer would you recommend to get a similar level of stiffness to the Race Plates (which are not that stiff, and I'm good with that as I prefer a more all-mountain set up than a race-oriented set up).

Any other guidance is appreciated. Thanks!

[NSSage]

I would definitely get some new bindings at your weight you are putting a lot of pressure on those bindings. I am scared to ride those bindings and I am really light but I am pretty aggressive on my snowboards. If you are looking for the same flex as the race plates I would think the TD3 side winders would be better with the blue E-pads and red E-rings (or maybe blue) I don't have sidewinders but I test rode them and they were pretty similar to my F2 titan flex which seems to be about the same as race plates in my experience (the F2 is a little stiffer). Im pretty sure the normal TD3 will be stiffer than the burton with any E-pad but I cant be positive, maybe someone with a similar weight has some experience with the normal TD3 and can help you more

[KingCrimson]

Last weekend I broke a shoulder bolt on my TD2s in a medium speed heelside. They aren't even close to a decade old..the following day I watched a friends toepiece rip off his year old F2 titaniums. I

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also have broken two raceplates. At your weight I would definitely ditch those burtons and get TD3s.

Im a bit lighter than you, but even at 20 pounds less I would consider plastic bindings of that age to be ticking time bombs.

Be safe!

Edited January 8, 2013 by KingCrimson

[lowrider]

If you see a boiler plate in your future for recreational riding you might consider the fact that the extra play( flexability )of a plate my contribute to your choices. If you opt for a soft plate ( stiffer bindings ) stiffer plate perhaps more flexable bindings ( sidewinders). Very personal choices best made by trying and eliminating the undesirables. As far as trusting your present plastic bindings.

[Corey]

I was nervous with non-Bomber bindings, so I went with TD3s. There are many Burton/Ibex riders that have no issues, I went with added insurance over 'probably fine'. ;)

I'm 205 lbs and like the soft yellow elastomers. I don't see any need for stiffer. That said, my next set of bindings will be Step-In Sidewinders, once available!

[bruincounselor]

I'm at 250 pounds now and have started the transition to Bombers. I have been on Burton bindings for the past 20 years and never had a problem - I did break a Hooger binding but that was junk. The TD3 is confidence inspiring and the precision on the hill is so noticiable I won't be going back (see my ad if you want a Burton rat-trap).

[Hans]

Notice that the TD3's are a lot stiffer than your current bindings. If you love the flex of your Burtons, I should stay there. If you want stiff, very direct binindings and the looks of them, go for the TD3's. The Ibex and F2's are still the most used bindings in the FIS worldcup and those guys and girls are riding them aggressive. The nowadays Ibex bails are a little thicker and well build as the Burtons. Preferred by Joerg Egli and crew (Pureboarding) because of the lateral flex.

[jacopodotti]

Notice that the TD3's are a lot stiffer than your current bindings. If you love the flex of your Burtons, I should stay there. If you want stiff, very direct binindings and the looks of them, go for the TD3's. The Ibex and F2's are still the most used bindings in the FIS worldcup and those guys and girls are riding them aggressive. The nowadays Ibex bails are a little thicker and well build as the Burtons. Preferred by Joerg Egli and crew (Pureboarding) because of the lateral flex.

Completly agree.

My weight is 275 lbs and never broke a Burton Race in 20 years.

Nowdays on my Plasma Carve 180/18 12 I use some Head Carbon.

Getting back to my Burton Factory Prime 178/20 15 with Burton Race I felt the difference.

The Plasma+Head more responsiveness Burton+Burton more forgiving.

I suppose that TD3 sidewinder has the best of the two.

[icebiker]

Thanks for the quick, insightful and diverse replies, they are exceedingly helpful. I hadn't thought about the Sidewinders and did a bunch of reading on them after you suggested them as an alternative, and i think that's the way I'll go if I decide to retire the Burtons. It's reassuring to hear that other heavyweights have been fine on the Race Plates, but the SW's sure seem to fit the bill. They are pricey however, so I've got some serious thinking to do now. Maybe a good idea when I'm asked "Honey, what do you want for your birthday?" :D

[FlyFast]

I have broken 2 pair of Burton bindings. I went to Catek race bindings mounted directly to the board - just figured out that I did not have a "toe up" position on them on front binding. Very pleased with them - very adjustable, however...

I just went to the TD3s. Wow - what a difference! Between the dampening (used the medium puck) and 3 degrees in front and 6 degrees in the back. Probably the new board made a difference too - Prior FLC 177.

As my friend Doug said - "its your primary sport and it makes you happy."

Worth the investment.

[jacopodotti]

Just a little add from me, the Burton that tend to broke are the one with transparent plastic.

Late Burton models and Ibex/Carve Company doesn't have this issue.

[michael.a]

Any binding can be broken. From TD2s to TD3s to F2s to Burtons. I think TD1s are pretty much bulletproof. The only one binding I can say stay away from is the Raichle X-bones.

[Ian M]

Notice that the TD3's are a lot stiffer than your current bindings. If you love the flex of your Burtons, I should stay there. If you want stiff, very direct binindings and the looks of them, go for the TD3's. The Ibex and F2's are still the most used bindings in the FIS worldcup and those guys and girls are riding them aggressive. The nowadays Ibex bails are a little thicker and well build as the Burtons. Preferred by Joerg Egli and crew (Pureboarding) because of the lateral flex.

TD3's are the most positive of the bunch, but with standard bails and yellow elastomers I find them very 'cushy' without losing any of their trademark responsiveness. F2's are a great second choice.

Have you tried riding with toe and heel lift? This is the biggest reason to chose another binding over the IBEX. If you haven't tried it, I really really recommend it.

Cheers :)

[KingCrimson]

Neither of my broken raceplates were transparent, or particularly old for that matter. Over the course of the last week I've ridden TD2s, a TD2 in the front and a TD2 lower with TD3 sole blocks on the back, TD1s, and Sidewinders.

The TD3 blocks made the binding feel considerably stiffer which is what I assume to be a product of the lower stack height and the through-bolt on the bails. SWs with blue all around feels WAY stiffer than my TD2s with yellow pads (though I dont know how much the pads really were doing given that the cant disc had all but completely punched through) but they take the edge off well in bumpy chattery crap like the GS I ran today. I dont think they are the end all binding yet and I feel that the raceplates soaked up bumps way better. Laterally if the sidewinders were any softer I don't think I'd like them, but they dont quite provide enough cush in all directions. My heel is aching like crazy from one particular chatter where I came straight down on the binding and got very little absorption. I want to try yellow rings but I have no idea what that will do to the lateral flex.

I think what makes raceplates soo awesome to ride is that you have a few degrees of slop but the binding bottoms out on the topsheet and provides solid response. I also think that when that happens, you're levering that poor center disc all over the place and that's why the area around the teeth cracks and fails. Sidewinders are good, but I think they need the progressive feel.

I will say I think for freeriding there's probably nothing better than the SW. I can imagine a Coiler AMT or something similar (like the OPs board, but ive never ridden one) with yellows all around would be a friendly, cushy ride with a tremendous lifetime on the bindings. Racers are often on very fresh bindings, not 10 year old raceplates. I know its going to be a LONG time before I start worrying about my SWs. I might like the raceplate ride way better, but after a handful of scary releases, I'll put up with the inferior ride.

Sorry about the horrible prose, I typed this on my phone.

Edited January 10, 2013 by KingCrimson
forgetful idiot with a poor attention to detail

[Beckmann AG]

The TD3 blocks made the binding feel considerably stiffer which is what I assume to be a product of the lower stack height and the through-bolt on the bails.

Consder the rubber baby buggy bumpers on the average hardboot sole, then take note of binding toe/heel pad surface area. The SW, Burton/Ibex, and TD1 have greater apparent area than the TD3, which has considerably more than the TD2.

The shoulder bolts of the TD1 and 2 may well be as stiff as the through-bolt of the 3. Both are noticeably stiffer than the bent loops of the B/Ibex and Catek.

(Retro-ed a set of TD1 toe and heel pads to a pair of "OS1", which rode better for the effort.)

[KingCrimson]

This was in Dalbello Kryptons with hard plastic sole pads.

[Beckmann AG]

^

Right. Your boots aren't average.

Regardless, greater contact area = more secure clampage.

[KingCrimson]

^

Right. Your boots aren't average.

Regardless, greater contact area = more secure clampage.

The only material missing on the TD2 is in the middle, would it really have a noticeable effect?

It would surprise me if the soles of my boots had any appreciable deformation, you would know better than I with your experience with carving in ski boots.

[Beckmann AG]

Have you swapped the TD2 toe and heel pads to the TD3 intermediate plate (part c/4) , and vice versa?

While the apparent differences between the 2 and 3 pads seem insignificant, the 3 is a little longer, a little wider (what with the bail stop flare), and the bolt recess is not cut away on one end. It's not much, but it doesn't always take much to make an appreciable difference.

Depending on the plastic, and the mold pattern, ski boot soles can have quite a bit of give.

[KingCrimson]

Have you swapped the TD2 toe and heel pads to the TD3 intermediate plate (part c/4) , and vice versa?

While the apparent differences between the 2 and 3 pads seem insignificant, the 3 is a little longer, a little wider (what with the bail stop flare), and the bolt recess is not cut away on one end. It's not much, but it doesn't always take much to make an appreciable difference.

Depending on the plastic, and the mold pattern, ski boot soles can have quite a bit of give.

I was riding bone stock TD2s, and then after I tore a shoulder bolt out I was very generously loaned a set of TD3 sole blocks. I removed the TD2 sole blocks and installed the TD3 ones on my back binding. Honestly, after comparing the geometry of the toe bails and levers I find it hard to imagine I was anywhere close to consistent with bail tension, and I think that has a way grander effect on lateral feel than anything we have discussed. The TD2 toe lever engages much more smoothly than the TD3 levers that feel like the binding isn't even going to close at the correct bail tension. I assume the TD3 effectively has a steeper cam profile.

I tried to get the bails as parallel as possible. Nobody make fun of my highbacks, those are thrift store bindings and they only rotate a few degrees.

Edited January 15, 2013 by KingCrimson